Advice/Suggestions for gluing a real coal load on Lionel's PRR S-2's metal coal load

Just make sure you clean the shell thoroughly with "Simple Green".

You will never live that down Lee.

Not sure of what glue to use, but I would suggest having 3-4 different size of chunks ready and after applying the larger chunks I would step down the sizes until the area is covered. Good Luck, you always have interesting projects, usually with great results, I will be waiting to see the final result.

I have always used slightly diluted Matt Medium since it dries totally flat and invisible. 

THAT is a great suggestion.  Thank you.  It will look a lot more realistic, I think.

Keep in mind coal is porous and will absorb quickly. I would consider an epoxy glue. And apply the pieces one at a time with a tweezers. Let dry then apply or lightly spray semi-gloss dullcote for that scheen real coal gives off!!!

For what it's worth, a much better suggestion is to use a Dremel powered carbide cutter, and completely cut out that "original Lionel" die cast coal pile. Then build a nice deep (depending on room available above the electronics) enclosure out of sheet styrene, which will allow an extremely realistic coal pile, with a forward depression were some of the coal has already been used.

Just my opinion, but then the end result will surely LOOK fake. I found it much better and easier to put the coal in totally loose, get it exactly the way you ant it to look with a dry paint brush, then carefully dribble some 70% alcohol int the pile. Then carefully apply diluted Matt Medium. In 12 hours of drying time, it will still look EXACTLY as you wanted to when the coal was loose!

I will post back tonight with the glue I used.  I just can't remember the name for the life of me.  It looks like a clear, thick gel and comes in a tube.   Basically, I just applied it to the area and rubbed flat with my finger, sprinkled on the coal, tamped it down, let set for about 10 min and then turned the engine upside down and repeated the process if any coal fell off.   You can do this multiple times to get the depth you like.    I should have time to post a pic as well.

--Greg

Before you remove the stamped metal load make sure that the tender shell isn't being used as the acoustic suspension box for the speaker(s).  If the speakers have an enclosure it's less of an issue.  If they don't you may wind up compromising the sounds for the appearance.

I have added real coal to all of my engines that came with "fake" loads. The coal I use has been run through a #150 Sieve. To my eye, it looks pretty good.

I mask-off the tender leaving only the "coal" exposed. The base coat of cement is plain old Elmers Glue. I liberally pour coal onto the glue and tamp it with my fingers. After drying overnight, I wet with alcohol and soak the coal with the same glue mix I use for track ballasting.  I give it a couple of coats of ballasting glue and add coal as necessary to fill in any gaps. After everything is dry, I shoot it with Dullcoat.

Gilly

Brush full strength white glue (Elmer's) onto the metal coal pile, and sift your real coal onto it. When your new coal pile is shaped the way you want it, spray it with wet water, then coat the pile with 50/50 diluted white glue, being careful not to let it run down the tender's sides.

White glue is quite strong, and will easily keep your new coal pile intact. And it's completely water soluble, so if you want to change it or want to bring the tender back to its original form, all you need to do is soften the glue with water and remove the coal with no harm done to the tender. Epoxies, matte medium, and other permanent glues are overkill and do non-reversable damage.

Depends on whether the tender shell is one piece and waterproof!

If it is then use Jim's (Jumijo) method with full-strength Elmers first and then the dilute.

However, if there is an opening in the top of the shell under the fake coal load and electronics/speaker, etc. below, the spray and the dilute glue isn't a good idea. In that case, the best way is to remove the fake load and glue the real coal to it on your workbench.  Then reinstall when dry.

If you don't want to remove the load (as you said), then brush full-strength white glue very carefully onto the fake load staying about 1/8" away from the edges. Tamp the coal into the thick glue, pushing the pieces up to the edge of the bunker but avoiding pushing the glue itself toward the edges and into the electronics below. Just work slowly - it can be done.

Jim

Just a thought Lee. A while ago I became dissatisfied with the appearance of the plastic top ore loads that came with my ore cars. Either a "day old refried beans" or "creamed corn" look. Floquil (soon to be "No"quil I guess) makes textured paints that are labeled "sand", "gravel" and "dirt". I used the "dirt" paint to do the brown ore load tops and was really pleased with the appearance. For the creamed corn loads I painted satin finish brown on first then a light spray with the dirt paint. I guess where I'm going with this is you might want to consider some kind of paint treatment. You would of course experiment first on a throw away surface with some combination of the gravel or dirt and flat black etc. Testors still sells the paints on line. $6 a can or so. No great loss if you can't find a combination you like.

As you say "If no one has ever done it that way it may be fun to try".

As others have said, brush on full strength Elmer's white glue then apply the coal. After it dries, add more coal if necessary. This time, use a diluted mixture (1:3) of Elmer's and water with a few drops of dish soap. Diluted white glue does not dry shiny.

Also, I now offer Famous Reading Anthracite Coal in 5 scale sizes. It comes directly from the Reading coal mines in PA.

I build my own tenders, but I bet my technique would work.  Try a contact cement like Pliobond, Walthers Goo, or Barg's.  Paint it on where you want the coal to stick in a fairly heavy layer, then simply dump the coal or whatever on top of the glue.  Go away for 24 hours, then dump the excess and you are done.

I no longer bother with real coal - somebody gave me a bag of simulated coal and it looks much more realistic.

I use arlenes glue-perfect-dries clear-cheap and holds-walmart-michaels-arts and crafts

stores-I have a lot of scale brass with real coal loads-some pieces of coal fall off

over time-use a toothpick and place a small dot of arlenes white or craft glue-and place coal where glue is and you are done-water oluable-cheap-works great

...what he said!

...and why did ya buy it...I've been getting coal for Christmas for years, I coulda sent you..... 

I know that this is anathema, but concerning the simulated coal looking more realistic than the real coal, I find that many, maybe even most, "real" coal loads in model

tenders does not look particularly accurate. Coal, somewhat like water droplets, does not

"scale down" well. All too many "real" loads look far too shiny and, well, plastic-like.

Real coal in tenders had a low sheen or no sheen (but not Martin Sheen); it was dusty.

(It's also ironic that coal is often a raw material for the plastics industry.) 

"Real coal" loads often need help looking realistic. Black paint or Dullcote can help.

I find that most fake loads (die-cast, plastic) can look just fine, and sometimes - it

depends, it depends - need no help.

Actually I think that there should be legislation moved through Congress to require that

all O-scale tender coal loads should be nicely molded plastic (see early Lionel L-3 Mohawks;

die-cast Williams scale Hudson) so that my ERR Command upgrades don't have to deal with isolating a metal tender shell; tedious. Plastic coal load? Just like a plastic diesel shell - stick it on and go. 

Anthracite Coal is shiny.

The coal load in the 1991 version could be removed from the tender shell.

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...C8F-849F1E7D8CB12C70

One point and two question...

Dennis Brennan's Coal is cool because it is the real deal and it comes in 5 (I think) sizes.

If you follow the link posted by Gerry Burns, it shows the 1991 tender with a different coal load...so....Is the tender for the the currently offered S2 a completley different tender than on the older version?  If so, wouldn't that mean it was cast in a new tool?

Hmmmmmm . . . I appreciate all the advice.  I'm mulling all this over.  My original idea had pretty much been the white glue route . . .

But  . . . I was looking at my S-2, with my T-1 (I thinks its about ten years old) right beside it.  As I posted a few days ago, so similar, and the tenders, nearly identical.  Then I noticed the coal loads are identical.  Every ripple and crevice and detail in one is in exactly the same place on the other.  Not sure why, but that made me stop and reconsider.  Do I really want to do this.  For some reason, with both having the identical coal loads - yes, they look fake, but its very cool in some way I can't describe.

Lee...you are correct about the coal load. In the thread about the T1 duplex (6-28063) it was stated that it used the same tender as the S2 turbine. The T1 tender has the cutout, same as the S2, in the front for the clearance for the cab roof, which was not an issue with the T1.

I would assume that the 2nd S2 reissue (6-38028) has the fake coal load also.

My guess is that sometime between the issue of the 1991 S2 and the reissued S2 and T1 that the tooling was revised on the tender shell to include the fake coal load.

I used to enjoy running my string of bulkhead flats with pulpwood loads until I realized that every car had the identical arrangement of wood. One more thing on my to-do list to take care of. 

Jim

I have a bin of real coal for the live steamer.  I used to crush it down to O Scale size and glue it as above.  Then a really, really good modeler gave me a pail of fake stuff - he saw one of my models in a contest, and felt sorry for me.  Yeah, the model won anyway.

These are pics of my 6-38028 from 2001 cataloging. 

The coal load apparently is a metal casting.

This is how my tender looks as it was unwrapped new over a decade ago.