An All Time Record For A Single Event?

Sure sounds like a single day's records for a railroad event. Last year's attendance at Grand Central Terminal's 100th anniversary in New York City drew about 120,000 people for the 2 day event.

There is a loyalty to steam that seems to be more widespread over there and it may be due to a greater popular appreciation for their own industrial heritage, that we seem to be slowly inching toward as our own fades away into the past, unless you count foreign owned automobile manufacturers that don't have that same cache..sort of a dime a dozen. I honestly cannot tell most of them one from another, sort of like franchised food. Same for modern diesel power. I suspect the appreciation for our own past will grow over time. Now if CSX would only see the light. 

Big Boy will certainly draw the media and consequently public attention..good for the hobby..as well as the roads themselves.

That would have been something to actually see!

Who let this guy in?

I just returned from Australia.  The A4 is a very popular model in Australia and elsewhere.  I believe that 3rd Rail and several others have done an O gauge model.  Does anyone have a list?  Perhaps MTH will do a model of this engine.

I think that 119,000 is a record for a one day event.  I wonder how many people the California State Railroad Museum rail fairs attract.  The rail fair is held once every 10 years and attracts huge  crowds over about a 2 week period.

Joe 

Last time UP 3985 was in town & sitting (remember those days?) in the West Chicago? yards it drew some enormous crowds. Was in the local papers but I can't recall the numbers.  

I don't know if it counts but it sure seems like we're well on the way to having more operational steam locomotives( if not already) than we've had in many years. Most of which are funded by donations and operated by volunteers......somebody cares.

Ricko

Its coincidental your comment meshed with my viewing of a video about South African steam and it's excursions, both freight and passengers. While a scene of a passenger excursion roared past, the narrator made the comparison of seeing wild animals confined to a zoo and seeing them in their natural habitat. One loping along and the other running past at a good clip. I think you are right. 

Seeing a steam engine at speed has an excitement that has no comparison. Unfortunately, outside of the UP engines at speed out in the plains in the middle of nowhere, I doubt it will ever happen here in the land of litigation.

A good example and demonstration of your comment..

Electroliner,

About two years ago, an SP GS-4 pulling a passenger train zoomed through suburban Chicago on its way to Chicago Union Station.  I was on my town's suburban passenger platform to take pictures which didn't work out very well because of the speed.  In fact, I was lucky not to be sucked in as the train passed.  So, they don't just highball in open spaces!

Chuck

Apparently you haven't witnessed mainline steam operations in the Chicago suburban area by the likes of UP844, UP3985, MIL261, or SP4449. 

 Another view.

Steve

What sort of track speed are you referring to? I can appreciate a comparison if you were a bit more specific. Comparable speeds to those run in the U.K or a speed faster than say, a commuter train? Are there any extant videos of these runs? Id love to see them at the risk of going slightly off topic. The only at speed videos I have seen are at a range of 75-80 MPH out in Wyoming and Nebraska on the U.P. I think Ross Rowland did some respectable speed runs back in the day with his engine out on the East coast.

I'll take a 1,000,000,000 lbs going 75mph over 375,000 lbs going 90mph any day

Sp4449 just outside of Chicago, haulin *** hotwater may know the exact speed:

261 leaving  Chicagos Union Station:

Whether its the UK or stateside there nothing to compare with steam at speed on a mainline versus a atypical tourist operation. It would be interesting to find out what the fastest excursion run has been to date. 90 MPH has been claimed for the UK or so they say...

Almost forgot, gotta give the webmaster some kudos too!

Ross Rowland had his C&O Greenbrier #614 equipped with cab signal/automatic train stop per NJ Transit requirements, and regularly operated mainline excursions on NJT at speeds of 90+ MPH.

On the New Orleans Worlds Fair Daylight, we regularly operated at maximum allowed track speed of 79 MPH on the Southern Pacific mainline from LA to New Orleans.

The UP has cab signal equipment on both 844 and 3985 (when she used to operate) and 75 to 90+ MPH operations were not uncommon with 844.

Concerning the track speeds on the BNSF, UP and CP commute lines in the Chicago suburban area, 79 MPH is the max allowable speed for cab signal equipped locomotives. As a result, the 4449 was "limited" to 69 MPH through the commute territory into Chicago, but we didn't run much over 64/65 MPH.

I can attest that UP 3985 would run 70 to 75 MPH, and UP 844 would run 90+ MPH (as recently as 2007, I fired 844 at speeds "around 90 MPH"), at least prior to 2011.

Hot Water

I saw some videos of Rowlands runs and they were eye-popping. Thanks for the information which really filled in some missing gaps in what I know. I was always somewhat irked that during the steam era some running here in the U.S at some impressive speeds went unrecorded by official timings..while the U.K claimed the record by default. 

Yea well, the U.K. can have their "record" as far as I'm concerned, what with their lightweight locomotives and government maintained rights of way.

I have seen the Late Vernon L. Smith's personal notebook from when he used to work for Franklin Railway Supply (manufactures of the poppet valve system on the PRR t-1 locomotives. Mr. Smith had to do a lot of riding on the PRR between Crestline, Ohio, Fort Wayne, IN, and Chicago, sometime in the cab and sometime in the coaches, while timing the various maximum speeds that the PRR T-1 class locomotives could & would reach on regular passenger trains. That notebook reflects truly astounding maximum speeds, easily approaching 130 MPH! I new Mr. Smith well, and still know his sons, one of which still has all his father's papers.

Another account of very great speed with a steam locomotive were the tests conducted by the Union Pacific on one of their FEF-2/FEF-3 class 4-8-4s. They assembled a train of empty coaches to conduct their tests, over the same trackage, over and over again. I have met the General Roadforeman of Engines many, many times who was the supervising Engineer on those tests, and mostly ran the engine himself during each "test pass". I have had many conversations with him, and learn something from him every time. When the testing was completed, the Test Engineer, out of Omaha, asked, "I wonder just how fast this 800 will actually haul this train?"., since all the testing at been done at various speeds, but NOT exceeding 110 MPH. Apparently that was the wrong thing to inquire about  as the Roadforeman made the final run, with the Test Engineer still in the cab. He told me personally that when the speedometer went past 125 MPH, the vibrations were so bad that the Test Engineer screamed at him to slow back down to 100 MPH! He also said that by the time the air brake set began to take effect and the throttle was reduced, he was pretty sure he reached "about 128 MPH"!

Your comments confirm my own suspicions that the U.K record has enough reasonable doubt to it to call it more of a claim than a irrefutable fact. I have heard similar accounts albeit secondhand regarding making up time on the PRR and your accounts from other sources would make for a great article if that kind of thing appeals to you.

Thanks

Thats some good reading Hot Water.

When did the NYC's #999 set its record?  Was in the 1890's, wasn't it, and before

automobiles were more than bicycle and buggy parts in somebody's experimental

shed.?

I thought that Mythbusters proved that you don't get sucked in. You get...BLOWN AWAY!!!

Golly. You americans are certainly sore losers. Mallard's world speed record run was officially timed and certified. End of story! 

Meh, a mere 6 coaches and it was going downgrade to boot.  When it comes to trains, its how much can you pull at top speed that gets the job done. The Mallards 35,000lb tractive effort is a bit on the light side.

I'd like to" think" the mallard and its train could be added in tow to any of the trains in the video I posted above and they could still move at a brisk pace. Not sure how the mallard would do if it was the opposite.

Enough of the "my trains better than your train" for me Interesting thread even though it got off topic.

"Although small scale testing with model trains in a wind tunnel showed a vortex, the more dominant force when running the full size train was the air turbulence running alongside and away from the train. The force caused Ted, a dummy made of ballistics gel, to simply fall down where he stood rather than be drawn into the train’s wake, and also violently pushed around an empty stroller tethered onto the platform alongside. Despite the lack of suction, the MythBusters agreed that the turbulence was powerful enough in its own right to make standing that close to the train as it passes very dangerous".

I guess the pun part got blown away too.