Anniversary of the Lake Shore Limited wreck

At what point in time did "speeding" to make up lost time finally become a no-no?

You can still go faster than your "assigned speed" when premitted, but not over track speed still though correct?

Speeding by 10 mph over your maximum authorized speed will cost you your engineer's certificate. That is one of the "Cardinal Rules" under CFR240. Violating it (or any of the other 5 Cardinal Rules) will cost you your job and end your railroading career.

This photo shows the old curve along the rock face and the new broader curve that involved shifting the course of the Mohawk River. The road in the distance is Route 5 which parallels the tracks through much of the Mohawk Valley.

 

 

 

Jim

Here's the present day Google maps aerial view. The bike path just visible at the lower left is a great place to ride.

 

 

 

Jim

This was taken April 20 1940 the day after the wreck.
David

The reference to CFR240 is meaningless. The Code of Federal Regulations(CFR) contains 50 titles. Each title is divided into chapters. Chapters are subdivided into parts that cover specific regulatory areas. Large parts may be subdivided into subparts. All parts are organized in sections, and most citations to the CFR refer to material at the section level.  I assume you are trying to reference Title 49 "Transportation" but I don't want to speak for you. Can you give us the proper full reference. Thanks.

 

Bob Di Stefano

 

It may be meaningless to you, but I can assure you that every railroad locomotive engineer in the country knows EXACTLY what I am talking about when I mention CFR 240.

 

The "official" reference is Title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 240.

I’m sure they do, but since I’m not a railroad engineer (except on my layout)  I’m just trying to understand what you are saying. Per your new reference, I checked out CFR Title 49 “Transportation” and Chapter II (Federal Railroad Administration, Department of Transportation) which is the Chapter that contains Parts 200-268. Part 240, however, is not a working Part No. under Title 49. Part 229 is “Railroad Locomotive Safety Standards”-

Is this possibly what you are talking about?

 

Bob Di Stefano

 

Fair enough Bob. I apologize for being a condescending know-it-all. I should know better.

 

The specific section of 49 CFR 240 which contains the "Cardinal Rules" is 49 CFR 240.305 - Prohibited conduct.

 

An engineer can be de-certified for doing any of the following:

1. Running past a stop signal indication
2. Operate a locomotive or train at a speed which exceeds the maximum authorized limit by at least 10 miles per hour
3. Non-compliance with required air tests
4. Occupy main track without proper authority or permission
5. Tamper with locomotive safety devices
6. Rule G - operate a locomotive under the influence of drugs or alcohol
   

 This entire section of the CFR's can be seen here.

 

 

So in today's world of railroading it's OK to make up time if you are running late, but you can only exceed the speed limit by 9.999 mph.

Thanks for going to the extra trouble to get me the section, Rich. I have an interest in this and will read it.

 

Bob Di Stefano

Santa Fe had a special rule in the timetable, which allowed Engineers to exercise good judgment in exceeding authorized speed to recover lost time if running behind schedule on passenger trains. It was cancelled sometime in the late 1950's or early 1960's.

In today's world, with "trial attorneys" well-attuned to legal means for finding - or intimating - any contributory negligence on the part of a railroad, any speeding at all is just stupid. It's not how fast you go; it's how fast you get going.

Very well said. A certain amount of time can be "made up" by accelerating out of restrictions and slow orders as fast as possible, getting the train back up to the speed limit quickly.

 

Of course, the bean counters don't like that because it "wastes" fuel.

That's a sad picture..A Hudson on it's side

And they said that Hudson was the only one involved in an accident they couldn't fix.

me not being a railroader what really surprised me was that even back then they had train stop. I always thought that was new technology.

I worked a very dangerous job and I reflect sometimes on friends I've lost. It was always experienced men making simple mistakes because we're all human and we do that. I've always thought (and still do) that 99% of all accidents would have never happened if that person had spent fifteen minutes doing something different.
Fifteen lousy minutes out of a lifetime what's that? Fifteen lousy minutes and that engineer,his fireman, those passengers and my friends would have been alive.

Maybe thats why I stayed alive. Whenever I thought about taking a shortcut that would back me into a corner I'd say to myself "Fifteen minutes" and take the longer way around to do the job.

David

I looked at 240.305.  I did not see anything about "Rule G" in Part 6.  However, I do agree with Rule G.

That rule is being revised to include prohibition on cell phones and cameras.

Rule G is not part of 240.305, but it is still one of the "Cardinal Rules."

 

Farmer Bill, I know you were kidding, but the use of cell phones aboard locomotives was dealt with via FRA Special Order 26. It is not part of 49 CFR 240.

Exactly...I operate, rebuild, assemble & disassemble cranes...or I used to when times were good. I know of way too many fellow workers that have gotten hurt or killed doing the same. Us "old timers" in the trade get too relaxed in our professions..that's when the accidents occur. 

 

I thought the Gulf Curve wreck was a result of a well seasoned engineer abrubtly closing the throttle in the middle of that curve which resulted in the engine being thrown off the track when the slack bunched? He did that with the Road Foreman of engines in the cab?

 Just something that I read somewhere.