Well, I can say I used to do HO Tyco!
I'd have replied, "You do know HO is half O. Aren't you glad O wasn't called A? Then your HA would have been half A**"
I did a google search and turned up this shot of an HO layout. I have no idea who's it is and don't mean to offend the builder.
That said, can anyone tell me the difference between this and other 3-rail layouts, other than the scale and missing third rail here?
Seriously, show someone making such a crack this photo and say, "Oh, HO scale in real model railroading huh? You mean like this?"
Who cares? Cross him off your Christmas card list and move on. Life is too short to worry about asshats.
p51 posted:....I did a google search and turned up this shot of an HO layout. I have no idea who's it is and don't mean to offend the builder.
That said, can anyone tell me the difference between this and other 3-rail layouts, other than the scale and missing third rail here?
Seriously, show someone making such a crack this photo and say, "Oh, HO scale in real model railroading huh? You mean like this?"
What I can see - what that photo has in common with so many layouts I have seen, in-person and via magazines - is that some hobbyist had fun, and is likely having fun with his creation. If the scale matters, and if the number of rails matters, they do so because it matters to his memories of special times gone by, not because somebody said so. He has created - I know I have created - a sanctuary - a shrine, of sorts - to wonderful times when I stood here and saw my father and mother operate this layout they constructed for us at Christmastime. The operative word there is "us." So, when I see a fellow hobbyist having a good time collecting and/or operating model trains, what is significamt to me is that he is happy with what he has created. It is a reach back in time to when people and places mattered significantly.
IMHO
FrankM. (Run 285)
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Optional reply 1: "My pastor/rabbi/imam suggested model railroading in any scale is a waste of time and money that would be better spent helping those less fortunate in this vale of tears. I just prefer to squander mine on a larger scale, no pun intended. Been thinking about upgrading to G."
Optional reply 2: "I prefer O scale myself, but HO is good, too. Just bought my grandson an HO train set to fit in his little hands." (Thanks to Marco Rubio for bringing the implication into public consciousness.)
What, me worry?
Joe S posted:I was at a meeting of our Club's Holiday Display Committee. The Club is located in an active adult community and welcomes anyone with an interest in trains, real or model, any gauge or just armchair. I have a fairly large O gauge Hi-Rail layout which has become fairly well-known in the community. Others in the Club also enjoy O gauge; some model in N or HO.
Toward the end of the meeting, one of the HO modelers stated that I (and by implication others who like O gauge Lionel, MTH, etc) don't have a "real model railroad"; rather I have a "Lionel display".
My view of this kind of remark is that it is both narrow-minded and snobbish, harkening back a few generations, when many HO guys used to build locos and cars from scratch and hand lay track and when much of available O gauge stuff was toy-like. In recent years, the realism and electronic capability of O has raised the bar. Coupled with the fun of being able to include operating accessories, and being able to scenic an O gauge pike as well as any other size, I believe that the folks who model in smaller scales are way off the mark in characterizing O gaugers as just displaying Lionel.
I also believe that even if you literally have a "Lionel display", it is every bit as legitimate a real model railroad as the person with a room full of HO or N trains.
In the end, so matter what size you enjoy, all model trains are toys, meant to be enjoyed, not demeaned. I was surprised and offended by this person's attitude and would welcome your opinions about appropriate responses.
X2000
Next time someone gives you their opinion about something, simply reply, Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.
I think you have a lot guts telling another railroader to take a hike or tell them that they need to model something real...
There are four Assosiciations in the San Diego Model Railroad Museum. 2 HOs (one of the groups has an o Scale 2-rail layout) and N scal and of course O gauge. I have only recieved one complaint and Doug W., bigdodgetrain and other SD3Rs can relate the HO group near us complains about the smoke. Well with Doug and Me we put the smoke out put to max and hold labor chuff and they leave us alone and deal with it.
This is the group who I give them hard time but it is playful banter, this is the La Mesa Model Railroad Club and the prototypical Roads that ran on it was ATSF and SP. Someone was running a Class A and a Clinchfield Challenger... Of course I said to them your not running a prototypical train. 
Main reason that we do O gauge is WE WANT TO HAVE FUN!!! Example bigdodgetrain rarely runs anything prototypical: He must have 150 cars with Movie, Book and Cartoon characters for Kids who visit us. This hobby is about fun and showing others what we can do in this hobby.
I would say to him that O gauge it the father of all scales and basically HO can run on O so what is the different.
Well what do you expect hanging out with us nerds?
ACE
is that bike on the rails you showed an operating item? Very interesting looking piece. must be fun to ride
Bob C.
And here lies the difference between those who engage in rivet counting nobly for more accurate models, and just being a "rivet counter".
Unless you have an excess of energy to expel, best to smile a silly grin and say: Yep...
but hold back all the time and
. So..
follow with..I have expensive tastes....Hey, who used the brass rails?..How many re-rail tracks do you use?......I got carpal tunnel cleaning ho so often....Maybe, let me get my glasses to see yours with....They are both sold in the toy department....Nobody every told me....What?. you have a toy....What?(adjust your hearing aid, real or fake)..mine are models....What? (adjust again, then repeat)...mom wasn't listening to me.....I have ants and hate derails...I sneeze a lot...and last but not least, the "catch all"....
"Why else would a grown man play with trains"
The Tyco thought has been nicely addressed...looks like MPC to me!
And is a reminder of being in K-mart #1, after MPC items were dropped, and wishing the Tyco accessories there were Plastiville sized. As a kid I thought that the Plastiville size, being in between our scales, was a good compromise, and benefited all. Rivet counters could always go with S if it bothered them, they had the more realistic trains than either O or HO anyhow... right?... Right
In defense of HO, if you haven't ran one in a while, I'll tell you you should try out a DCC age loco, even in conventional, most HO do both too.
Sound has not only happened, is pretty good too (lacks bass, go figure). Smoke is there (though sparsely used and mediocre IMO) The running quality of most is excellent now, running on nearly self-cleaning, nickle-silver rails is smooth, and "the heft" for the size is nearly as impressive as post war O. Better knuckle style couplers included on most things (still not K-Dee quality, but decent and look better than "the hooks"). Great fine detailing you might not thought it possible.
Using Bachmann 18"r blk roadbed track, I elevated one point, high on a Lionel #A elevated trestle(4.5"?). Exactly opposite that on the 36" circle, the track sat on the floor. The Altas GP9 had I picked up, only had a few sinker filled hoppers to pull, but it laughed at the grade, having more issues with tipping over from the angles created by this silly but informative test circle.
Those aren't your grandmas trains anymore 
I sold the GP. Better than the 60's-70's sure, but those HO re-railing tracks exist for a reason.
First , DON'T waste your time with that idiot !
Second , Have fun with your trains no matter what scale(s) you have !
Third , Just have fun & run Trains
I have 4 scales . I run two scales HO & O most of the time ! Both layouts are temporary layouts . I also have N & On30 trains as well !
Ignore the person. Why would you give someone such power over you? If you enjoy the trains that is enough.
Me I just would go oh and do tell how something that stands for half of O is better than a full O. Oh yeah you have to have certain place to uncouple your trains still don't you man that must kill you knowing your great trains are still so toy like. If you would ever lower yourself to and really look you will find there's a lot of O gauge layouts that would put most HO to shame with the detail done to them. By the way when was last time you had your eyes check as you sure are blind to the real world. Or is that because your so wrapped up in your make believe world in 1:87 scale.
Robert Coniglio posted:ACE
is that bike on the rails you showed an operating item? Very interesting looking piece. must be fun to ride
Bob C.
The bike is definitely an operating item, I rode it today - in its conventional configuration for conventional roads. That was over 20 years ago when I had it set up to run on a disused railroad in my neighborhood, which has since been dismantled. I covered a lot of miles with it, it was fun. Although it was more interesting when the railroad was still operating trains.
For the original topic: oftentimes the best response is no response. Time to move on to better things.
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Oh my.....one more....
The "hand of God*" smacked some sense into me
(*old school HO slang for uncoupling done by hand with a toothpick 
)
I would replace the rubber tip on the missile of my 3665 Minuteman Missile Car with a small explosive and launch it at his layout........and say you are right! 
Truth told, there is no use arguing with someone like that....just smile and walk away........
Peter
Yeah, who cares. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on things so I say whatever and enjoy the hobby.
I would have gone Al Swearengen on him
It has been my experience that guys who pass comments like that don't personally have a layout or if they do, it is not much. I like to turn the tables on them. "Why don't you have YOUR layout open for the group so we can all see what a REAL model railroad looks like?" They'll come up with some excuse as to why a hosting a group won't be possible. "OK then, when can I come over to your layout and see what a REAL model railroad is all about?" At that point, 99% of the loudmouths will turn and walk away silently.
The HO modelers I know who have actually built a model railroad are generally appreciative of other's efforts regardless of scale because they know the work involved in creating one. Jerks with snide comments probably haven't created much of anything.
Putnam Division posted:...just smile and walk away...
This.
Pete
It never ceases to amaze me when people make comments like that. Comments that are completely out of context, that add absolutely nothing of value to a conversation, and that serve no purpose other than to provoke. I just don't understand what they hope to gain. I don't care what hobby a person is into, or how he/she enjoys it. If they put in the effort, and they enjoy it, I can appreciate it and find a way to say something nice about it.
As for my response: Well, I'm not overly bright or well spoken, not too subtle, and I broke my filter quite a while ago. It would have come out quickly, it would have been short, and it likely would have started a fight.
Joe S posted:Toward the end of the meeting, one of the HO modelers stated that I (and by implication others who like O gauge Lionel, MTH, etc) don't have a "real model railroad"; rather I have a "Lionel display".
<snip>
I was surprised and offended by this person's attitude and would welcome your opinions about appropriate responses.
Joe:
I think you've gotten a number of good responses here. To your question:
- My initial response would have been to moon him. (Ok, maybe it's nice to think that in my mind.)
- Depending on the tone of his voice, his posture, whether I felt he was trying to show me up in front of others, etc., I might have said something like, "Well, I'm glad we're all here at a place where o pin ions can be made so brutally plain." (And I would have pronounced "opinions" as I tried to represent with italics, coming down hard on the letter "p".)
- If he seemed like he was just a clueless jerk who wasn't necessarily trying to show me up, and who wasn't aware how offensive his remark was, I would have said, something like "Oooookaaaaaay...." and then nothing else. The goal would be to let him know that his remark was absorbed, that I disagree, but there's really no response to it.
Of all the responses offered above, I like Paul's (railrunnin):
"I have trains for fun and fellowship, why do you have trains"?
and, by many:
Don't bother with this nitwit.
Thanks for sharing.
Steven J. Serenska
You just shouldn't stand there and take that type of insult. My response to the guy making that scurrilous and caustic comment on your nice O gauge layout would have been, " I guess HO trains are good provided you own a magnifying glass so that you can watch them run".
Moonson posted:Upon further thought, I'd go with KOOLjock1's reply. I like his answer better than mine (maybe, without the expletive, though. Maybe.)
"Dang" isn't an expletive is it?
Been fortunate to visit many layouts of various scales/gauges and they all have something interesting or innovative, scale being completely irrelevant to problem solving and ideas. HO and N have made great strides to become like O Gauge with remote control, sound and smoke. Who knows, maybe one day they'll get remote operating couplers. And N does it with the largest out of scale flanges we've ever seen!
Have a friend who's wife believes real music ended in the late 1700's. Songs like They Can't Take That Away From Me by Gershin being garbage she will remind you, and don't even think to mention I Feel Fine or Clocks, etc:-) As others have mentioned, just be polite and walk away.
Linn Westcott wrote in his column in Model Railroader magazine that criticizing another man's choice of scale brings a reaction akin to criticizing his choice of automobile, political party or church. It is best avoided. The Apostle Paul said to avoid arguments without end. My late father once said, some people wouldn't have it, some wouldn't have anything else. For the life of me, I don't know why some of our HO friends like to criticize O gauge trains, but they do. I guess it makes them feel better.
For the life of me, I don't know why some of our HO friends like to criticize O gauge trains, but they do.
Because they are conflicted, either in their own mind or because of the reactions they've gotten from the non-train people they know.
To most of the general population, Model Railroading, no matter what gauge or scale is a child's pastime. It's playing with children's toys.
Lionel trains, no matter how detailed and how well scaled they might be, will always be associated with Christmas time and toys. Things like exploding boxcars and helicopter cars.
So many of the HO and N gauge folks like to distance themselves from the Lionel folks.
In my experience, people seem to accept collecting better than they accept model railroading. They seemed puzzled as to why an adult would want a train layout. But folks collect all sorts of things, so its easier for them to understand.
The remark that resulted in this lengthy and mostly absurd discussion is just plain not worthy of any kind of a response whatsoever.
Pete
Just smile!
Side bar .. I love the new term" lobster claw couplers". I still smile why I read about it.... Finally someone with a good sense of Humour.. It may even have come from HW... hard to believe.
Too many, the un-prototypical track of 3-rail classifies us "toy trains" - no matter how well done the layout is or scale-looking the trains are. If someone said my hi-rail layout was not a real model railroad, I'd smile, and with no malice I'd say true the 3-rail track leaves something to be desired, and add its good enough for me and the trains run pretty good.
Texas Pete posted:The remark that resulted in this lengthy and mostly absurd discussion is just plain not worthy of any kind of a response whatsoever.
Pete
Yeah but, Pete, having a sense of humor n' all, you gotta admit Tackindy's contribution is pretty funny , or, at least, pretty succinct. (I saved the photo.
) Eh? Huh? FrankM.
I took my time to answer this thread because I needed time to come up with a very good and IMHO a helpful response.
First of all I agree with you that what that person said was a totally insulting remark. I am a 2 railer but I just don't treat people that way. Any layout whether it is a 3RS layout or a tinplate layout took some amount of time and creativity to build and therefore the owner deserves some respect. I admit scale stuff whether 2 rail or 3 is what I like the best but I would never put someone down because they built say a Lionel Postwar layout. I was also going to say the same exact thing C.W. Burfle said 5 posts earlier.
There was something said on this forum many years ago and I copied it to my computer I shall repeat it here. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I got this from.
"Each of us has a different definition of what fun is. For some folks running toy trains around in a circle is fun. For others, collecting brass models is fun. For others counting rivets and researching/modeling is fun. For others prototypical operation is fun.
There has always been a line between one’s personal definition of what fun is and the actions of others. This can be analogized by a George Carling joke:
There are two kinds of people on the highway: Morons and Maniacs.If a person is driving slower than you, he’s a moron and if a person is driving faster than you he’s a maniac. “Didja see that person passing me? The Highway Patrol ought to ticket him!”
There are two kinds of model railroaders. “People who just play with trains” and “People who are ruining the hobby.” Those who are less prototypical than you are bozos who are just playing with toy trains and those who are more prototypical than you are rivet-counting extremists who are ruining the hobby."
After careful consideration I believe I have come up with the perfect comeback to the person who made the insulting remark. This will work as long as the person is talking directly to you when they say the insult. Which may not be the case in this instance bit this will prepare you for any future insults. But before I can tell you what to say I must first give you a background story. However, it will be hard to convey this response over the internet because it is a sound rather than words.
My sister is an insufferable know-it-all who has (by my determination--and I would bet good money I am right) a light case of anorexia. Her arms and legs look like she just walked out of a Nazi concentration camp but she says she is overweight. When the subject of food comes up she talks with a lot of conviction in her voice. A real confidence that you would expect to hear from an actual expert in the field but all she knows is what she's read in a book, magazine or on line. She has no real schooling in the subject. I have to admit she does know a little about the subject but I have caught her being wrong about certain foods once in a while so I don't take what she has to say as gospel. What I don't like is her attitude. She talks like what she says is absolute fact or law. She is such a picky eater when it comes to food that when we go to dinner it always has to be some place that she will go to. Unfortunately she instilled the same values and perceptions about food onto her son. I know some kids won't eat but this is extreme. The kid had to go a doctor because he was so constipated. She is also a person who will never take any advice whatsoever and who will never, EVER admit they are wrong on anything.
Okay, we were at a very fancy country club for dinner because we had just gone to a funeral. Her kid wouldn't eat anything there as usual. She told me she brought potato chips for him to eat (another thing that bugs me is the kid basically lives off snacks because he won't eat hardly any real food). So I said why not give him an energy bar like a Cliff bar? I was trying think of something healthy that one could carry around easily. Just trying to be helpful. Well, she tore into me like you wouldn't believe practically yelling these sentences at me in a fury saying, "Do you know how unhealthy energy bars are? You can't even through them in the trash. They have all kinds of chemicals in them. They are so bad for you!" For a split second she caught me off guard and then I quickly and very calmly said, "And potato chips are good for him?" She was actually stunned into silence. I got her! What is going to be her comeback now? HAHA I said to myself but then she looked at me, tilted her head at a 45 degree angle, and as she was in the motion of tilting her head she said, "Ahh."
Like I said this is kind of hard to convey over the internet. Basically, it was a sound that says I couldn't care less what you say. I told my friends this story and they were laughing. We now use this expression for everything. My friend was busting my chops that the NY Rangers lost in the playoffs and I told him "Ahh". This expression makes everything better. Your new locomotive doesn't work--"Ahh." Your team lost the game--"Ahh." Some guy cut you off--"Ahh." Your LHS lost your pre-order--"Ahh." Your car just got a flat tire--"Ahh." You just got a parking ticket--"Ahh." Someone insults your way of going about this hobby--"Ahh."
It works for everything! I bet that if that guy was looking at you when he made his insult and you gave him the "Ahh." he would be thinking Oh my God he wasn't bothered by my insult. What do I do now?
So that's what my suggested response would be: --"Ahh."
Well, sir, There would be no HO if O was not there first!
But HO engine prices have gone up. For a while, some HO engines were MORE than some of the Jerry Williams diesels!
Love Gilly's responses!
I guess I'd have remarked something like...'Really? Everything about my trains is special. Your HO trains? How Ordinary! That's what 'HO' stands for, you know?!' But, then, were Mom standing next to me, she'd have given me a 'DiNozzo' for being a smart a__!
Let's face it guys....there are many of these opinionates out there. In this PC age of 'Tolerance amidst Diversity'....(
)...we must condone this exceptional sort.
Besides, they tend to be a miserable lot....perfect realism always eludes and is out-of-reach. OTOH, ours is the epitome of FUN!!!!
KD
Moonson posted:Texas Pete posted:The remark that resulted in this lengthy and mostly absurd discussion is just plain not worthy of any kind of a response whatsoever.
Pete
Yeah but, Pete, having a sense of humor n' all, you gotta admit Tackindy's contribution is pretty funny , or, at least, pretty succinct. (I saved the photo.
There's nothing funny about animals in anguish. That poor donkey. However, I find the quantity, verbosity and range of the responses to this topic to be hysterically amusing, especially the one where a poor sap even managed to throw in his hatred of cyclists. Too funny!
Why whould anyone need to defend their hobby anyway? Who cares? It's crazy. Only unhappy people put down how other folks do hobbies, probably because misery loves company.
Doc Putnam Division got it right when he said smile and walk away.
Pete
Thanks for all of your advice and opinions. I appreciate them all. I am still deciding on whether and how to respond.
X2000
I think you should forget it. Remind yourself that you have better things to do than spend part of the rest of your life worrying about what to say to this person with respect to a matter of such little real importance.
I agree with Pete's comments.
I built my railroad for my own enjoyment first, and others enjoyment second. I don't expect everyone to like my railroad and they are entitled to their opinions. That anyone felt a need to come here and seek advice and comfort in this matter is more disturbing to me.
