Atlas Non-Derailing?

The Atlas switches are spring loaded non-derail already. At least my O-54 and O-72 ones are. Never tried them like that, so don't know how well they work that way.

Here's a thread about the Atlas 6924 non-derail boards Good info here on how to wire them and the different functions they provide. I was the one asking the questions, so maybe someone from that thread (or anyone) will be along to add to or clarify any questions you have.

Atlas switches are non-derailing mechanically.  By that I mean that a train will cause the switch points to push aside because of the flexibility of the spring on the switch machine.  You make them electrically non-derail by using their non-derail boards but it shouldn't be necessary in my opinion.

Art

I have 45 Atlas switches all wired with the 6924 non-derail board.  As stated above the train will push its way through on it's own but don't try backing up half way through or you will have the train backing down the wrong side of the switch.

With the non-derail board you wire each leg to the circuit board and upon sensing a train on the isolated third rail it will cause the switch to activate to the required position.

Another BIG advantage of the board is that it sends a short pulse to activate the switch and since the pulse is of limited direction it avoids the possibility of overheating and burning up the switch motor.

Hope this helps

dick

Art, Are you saying I don't need a #6924 non-derail board?

Dick, Are you saying I do need a #6924 non-derail board?

RTR12, Are you saying I don't need a #6924 non-derail board?

I believe it is not mandatory but I like they way it electronically controls the switch.

I also control 60 Custom Signal Controls with outputs from the boards so that is another advantage for me.

dick

I have two reveres loops on my upper line with Atlas 072 switches.  I run a train and let it use the mechanical non-derail feature of the Atlas switches.  I have the switches set for the straight route and it travels around the reverse loop and passes through the switch without any problem.

As a separate issue, I do also have the Atlas Non-derail boards but I only use them for the electrical non-derail on switches I am using "power routing" on.  I use "power routing" on my larger switches (#5's and #7's) and where I have "stacked" 072 switches in my yards.  These switches are "power routed" as I had electrical dead spots that my engines did not have enough pickup rollers to overcome. 

I hope that this isn't too confusing.

Art 

According to my interpretation of Atlas' directions you do not need the 6924.

However, Flyboy62 makes some very good points in favor of the 6924's in his post. (I will steal his descriptions so as not to confuse things by trying to describe it myself.) 

1. Don't try backing up half way through or you will have the train backing down the wrong side of the switch.

2. With the non-derail board you wire each leg to the circuit board and upon sensing a train on the isolated third rail it will cause the switch to activate to the required position.

3. Another BIG advantage of the board is that it sends a short pulse to activate the switch and since the pulse is of limited direction it avoids the possibility of overheating and burning up the switch motor.

So I guess it depends on how you want to operate your layout. If you want or need those additional features, then add the 6924's, otherwise try it without them.

Personally, I think item #3 alone may make them worth adding. I plan to use 6924's on some of my switches. I have grand kids and if they hold the #56 switch button down too long, it's my understanding it burns out the switch motor pretty quick.

Not sure I will add them to each switch, I may do some using manual only control in a yard (no electrically operated switch machine, hand lever only). But I'm seriously thinking of adding them to all my electrically operated switches.

RTR12, Art and Dick, It now looks like you all agree that the #6924 is NOT necessary. Is that correct? Out of curiosity, what does the #6924 cost and where did you get them?

Thanks again guys.

MilwRdPaul

When wiring each leg to the board, do you need to cut gaps in the track or does the board sense the voltage increase as the train nears the switch and force the switch to throw In the right direction?  I also thought these boards were necessary to make the switch non-derailing.

Rick

however, if you have steam engines with light weight front pilots they will not push the switch out of the way and will derail.

What I do is cut the jumper wire on the bottom of the switch(heading out of the switch).  I then use Cat5 wire to go to a central location on my layout.  Each Cat5 is dedicated to a switch with 3 wires for the switch control and two wires for the non-derail.  I use the additional legs of the cat5 wire to bring back the isolated block wiring to my central wiring.  Sounds complicated but once you have a plan it is easy.

I bought all of my track and non-derail boards from Charlie/Chris at Nassau Hobby.  They discounted to a very nice price.  I think the boards list around $25. 

My LHS sells them for a little over $20-$21, and they don't discount a lot. CharlieNassau or Charles Ro or other large shops may (probably) have them cheaper?

Paul - JD has them for a good price - http://www.jdstrains.com/elco.html

I thought of using them also but the wiring seems complicated.

Regards,

Paul

Paul - I have had a fair amount of experience with my Atlas switches.  Most of it good, but I have also had a few issues that my son and I addressed. 

I started with standard, out of the box Atlas switches and they worked fine.  Then when we shortened the legs of my 072 switches so we could "stack" them and get the yard tracks 4 1/2" apart, some of my engines would stall on the switches when going slowly in and out of the yard.  The solution was either add enough pickup rollers to the engines or power the dead rails.  We used the Atlas Non-derail boards to provide the terminals and relays to achieve this.  As has been pointed out, this also corrected a problem with Atlas switch machines burning out.  My next problem was we started burning up non-derail boards when we had derailments and shorts.  So we added fuses to protect the boards.  That got to be a continuing problem and pain, so we finally went to the current solution.  That is we replaced all the Atlas switch machines with Tortoise switch machines.  Finally everything is working like it is supposed to.

But again, in order to run your switch for your reverse loop, you should not need to do anything special.  I do not run steam engines so I can't comment on if the front wheels are too light to move the switch points.  I would be surprised if they do not however.

Art

Railroads had lots of Spring switches , some on the main line and other usually in the shop area. Lots of crew members have  made the same mistake of not completing a forward movement and tried reversing with out setting the switch. Any who I've never tried a Atlas switch .     (SS)  Spring switch.

Again, thank you everyone for your help. I believe for what I would be doing, I won't need the #6924. If it proves otherwise, I guess I would add them.

Several have mentioned the weight issue with the pilot trucks on engines.  It also applies to the cars passing through the turnout.  They need to be properly weighted or they will deraik.

Jan 

I have an o-36 reverse loop and it is unpowered. In the last two years it has been running I have had no problems with it, both with small steam and diesels.

The Atlas switches are well made and have proven reliable, despite many reports to the contrary.  

The 6924 boards are needed in many instances, powering the bigger switches , preventing burn outs of the motors, and powering directional lamps for the turnouts.

Fred

If you use a momentary contact switch to throw the turnout, you'll never burn out a turnout motor.

I had gathered from other posts that people were burning them up with the #56 control button that comes with the switch, by holding the button down too long?

The Atlas board certainly fills the bill.

I'm just saying that there are other simple alternatives- one of which is using a better switch button. The momentary contact switches that you can get at an electronic supply store are far superior to Atlas O's button. I've never had one stick--all it requires is a simple touch. They're spring loaded and easily return to a center off position. And, why would anyone hold it for longer than a moment?

Additionally, I use a capacitive discharge unit so when the toggle is pressed it releases it's energy in a quick short burst. Holding the toggle to one side for however long will not cause anything but the one shot discharge.

It makes sense to think it through and plan........

I thought I was was safe using the AIU.......and look what happened.......

https://ogrforum.com/t...-switches-to-the-aiu

Peter