Basement flooding

I would suggest  a Generac

Generac is a great thing, I agree.  But - $ 7500 or so installed for a 2000 sq. ft. home. The city water system: $ 800.  Of course you also have to HAVE city water vs. a well. 

@Mike Wyatt posted:

...Now I have a city water-powered backup system to my electric sump pump.  This system has a separate water level sensor (above the electric sump pump float) so that, in the event of an electrical outage or sump pump failure, the city water-powered system through a siphon device pumps 3 gallons out of the sump every 5 gallons of water.

...

This is new to me.  Can you provide a link to an example of what it is?

You don't need to get a $7500 generator to run a sump pump. I've never seen a residential sump pump that used more than a 20 Amp circuit. The pump itself likely demands much less current. A 1500W generator should run one just fine.

Obviously the big generators have convenient features like on-line switchovers and don't have the hassle of having to move it around. That said, a small generator and some quality extension cords are a lot cheaper, require less maintenance, and go a long way to providing insurance against catastrophe.

@rplst8 posted:

You don't need to get a $7500 generator to run a sump pump. I've never seen a residential sump pump that used more than a 20 Amp circuit. The pump itself likely demands much less current. A 1500W generator should run one just fine.

Obviously the big generators have convenient features like on-line switchovers and don't have the hassle of having to move it around. That said, a small generator and some quality extension cords are a lot cheaper, require less maintenance, and go a long way to providing insurance against catastrophe.

Good points, but here are some in favor of a whole-house system (a neighbor has one powered by natural gas  and I'm contemplating)...

Minimal maintenance (I have a generator - your guess is as good as mine regarding whether or not it will start if I need it), physically moving and hooking it up in a hurry in foul weather, keeping it full of gas and oil in a storm, and most importantly - you need to be home when it's needed.

Where I live, we would often lose power for an hour or two during storms, but the utility recently put the lines underground.  However, there are still plenty of above-ground lines in the area that can fail. 

In addition to a battery backup on my sump pump, I keep a spare pump next to the pit.  It's pre-plumbed so that I can swap it out in about 5 minutes.

Any critical system in a home requires regular preventative maintenance. For a sump pump, I'd keep a spare at the ready as well. No ground water issues where we live and we are on city water and sewers. I replace my water heater every 10-15 years before it springs a leak. I have gas-fired, hot water heat, I have a spare thermo-coupler and circulator pump on hand.

Several mfr's make battery packs for the home (Generac, Tesla), that will charge off the grid power and will run your critical services for a while. Add solar to this and you can run off-grid indefinitely. Small battery systems are made specifically for well/ sump pumps too.

We currently have a 8 KW gasoline generator, I change the oil regularly, clean/ replace the plug and filter too. I also try and start it periodically and plug in a 500 w flood light to put some load on the generator too. I'm also tired of the set-up, fuel issues and am planning to upgrade to a 17 KW Generac soon.

I like the water back up pump, sounds interesting.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

...We currently have a 8 KW gasoline generator, I change the oil regularly, clean/ replace the plug and filter too. I also try and start it periodically and plug in a 500 w flood light to put some load on the generator too. ...

You're a better man than I.  I get around to checking my generator every couple of years... maybe.

@Mallard4468 posted:

You're a better man than I.  I get around to checking my generator every couple of years... maybe.

I run the Facilities Management Dept of a mid-size University on Long Island. 70 acres, 1.5M sq ft, PM's are part of my life.

Doing my snow blower next week.......

Thanks.

We were without electricity after Ike for 11.5 days.  A few years after that I had a whole house Generac installed.  Yeah, the cost was right at $10K.  It was a 20 KVA air cooled, which was the most powerful air cooled version they had at the time.  I have never, ever once regretted that expenditure.  It gives me such an ease of mind that you can't describe.  While we've had no outages anywhere close to Ike, we've been without electricity for 6 hours or so at a stretch, usually during extremely hot or cold days.

I'm currently at my son's home in upstate NY.  He had one installed as well, a 24 KVA air cooled version.  While I'm here, I don't have any worries about my house freezing over due to the 14 degree temps in Houston last night.  I got a text alert from the energy supplier that there was a 1.5 hour outage around midnight.  No worries.  We pulled up our Ring and we can see our front lights on, and the rest of the street is dark.

We have a Generac that came with the house when we bought it. It is fueled by natural gas and powers the whole house when the power fails. It's great to have as we live in a rural area outside of Houston and power failures are common in severe weather. We do have a maintenance contract with Generac though, so there is some ongoing expense.

I'm sure it was expensive and I'm glad I didn't have to make the decision to buy one. I might not have since my wife and I are both retired. It has been great to have and if basement flooding is an issue, I would think having one would be mighty convenient. IMHO.

@Ron H,

I don't have a maintenance contract, but every 2 years I have the company come by and perform a full service (change oil, filter, spark plugs, and test).  I end up saving about $100 dollars per year, but that's at the price of not being at the top of their list in an emergency.  Mine too is powered by natural gas, my son's in NY is powered by a separate propane tank.  There is no gas to his house, and he has a separate propane tank for heating.

@rplst8 posted:

You don't need to get a $7500 generator to run a sump pump. I've never seen a residential sump pump that used more than a 20 Amp circuit. The pump itself likely demands much less current. A 1500W generator should run one just fine.

Obviously the big generators have convenient features like on-line switchovers and don't have the hassle of having to move it around. That said, a small generator and some quality extension cords are a lot cheaper, require less maintenance, and go a long way to providing insurance against catastrophe.

           Agreed, our last house - in the PA woods -lost power 3 times in 6 months (only 1 was my fault !) but a sump pump was critical there.  Our Troy Built 5500 generator (used $350 at auction) was ample for the sump pump & the coffee maker - so my needs were covered !    Still have it here in SD,  both it & the snowblower are ready to go.

Rich in SD

Ten minutes after I wrote this, power to my sons house went out, probably due to high winds.  It is in no mans land in Ulster county.  The generator came on as it should, and it's been running for about an hour now.  I don't know when power will be restored, but tonight it's supposed to get to 0.  It is nice to have.

I thought I had it licked by buying a place at the top of a hill with sandy soil.  Then the temps went to -29F, and the pipes burst...

Jon

On the other hand, my rich neighbors in the Shenandoah Valley suffered a 3 day black out about 10 years ago, so they bought a huge whole house generator, and all new wiring for it, and the switch over circuits, and everything else for their big house.  This cost a whopping $35,000! 

Since that time, they have never had an occasion to use it.  Not even once. 

And, they were dumb enough to let Lowe's install it right next to the house, about one foot away.

So when they test run it, the whole house shakes!, and it sounds like you are standing five feet from the edge of the tracks as a train goes by!   

They deeply regret the purchase!

I never had a sump pump,  and will never buy a house that needs one.  But, many years ago I bought a Honda 5500 generator, with electric start, new, for around $500, and it was absolutely great for running a few things if the power went out.  It was dang heavy, but I mounted it on two flat furniture dollies with casters, from Harbor Freight, and it was really easy to roll around on the concrete floor of my garage.

Put one in your basement, have an electrician wire your sump pump with a switch that lets you power it with a plug, use a 20 amp extension cord, and when the power goes out, just roll the generator over to the walk-out door so you can vent the exhaust and plug it in to the sump pump.   

Never put any gas in it except ethanol-free gas,  and be sure to put gas saver in the tank.  Test run it every 3 months for 20 minutes or so to keep the battery charged.

I have constant arguments with my Jersey-Girls wife, because she wants to buy a whole-house generator, because "Oh my Gawd, if the power goes out for three days, everything in the refrigerator will go bad!"  My response is, "So what!  We throw out a $100 worth of food, and if the stuff in the freezer goes bad, we throw out another $150 of food.  I ain't buying a $10,000 whole house generator for this place!"

Mannyrock

If you want a good sump pump buy a Zoeller. I had a basement water proofed at a house I had in town.  That was 31 years ago and it's still doing it's job.

Mother in law bought the house and the only thing she had to do was have the float switch replaced.

Made in Louisville Ky I believe.

Best thing you can do for yourself is get a water detection device that will contact you if it senses water.  Often times if you knew and were able to act, disaster can be averted.  I have a water detector integrated into my alarm system that will contact me in the event any water is detected at the top of my sump pit.  I also have a water powered backup sump pump should the primary electric pump fail or power go out.

A good middle ground solution for emergency power is a gentran switch.  If you are incapable of installing it, you can have one professionally installed for ~$1000 total including parts.  You choose which circuits you would like to power.  Then you buy the portable generator of your choice.

Then if there's a  power outage, simply plug the generator into the outlet on the exterior of your home, start the generator, and throw the switches.  I used this set-up for 8 years.  My area of rural New Hampshire experienced many power outages.  In 8 years, we were without power for over a week on 4 separate occasions and had many more smaller outages.

If you live in an area of frequent and protracted power outages, a gentran set-up will give you a lot of the benefits of a whole-home generator at a fraction of the price.  Of course, you do have to maintain a portable generator and have the ability to position it when the time comes.  If you're infirm, or you have the dough and just want the convenience, then a whole-home generator might be worth it to you.

@Mallard4468 posted:

This is new to me.  Can you provide a link to an example of what it is?

https://www.google.com/search?...ter+warden+sump+pump

Water Commander Sump Pump backup.  I was incorrect- it pumps 13.5 Gallons per minute at water pressures as low as 40 PSI.   At that rate it will remove 13.5 gallons of sump water using 9 gallons of city water, pumping 10 vertical feet.

https://www.watercommander.com/

We are on a well, so a water sump backup would not work for us.  Our house is built such that all rain/storm water runs away from it, but that does not keep water from getting into the basement.  Our french drain empties into the sump pump, as well as the drain from our outside stairwell to the basement.  Heavy rains has our pump working overtime.

We have two pumps in the sump, one house current only and the other a hybrid system that uses house current from a different circuit and with a backup battery.  The circuit with the hybrid system, as well as our well pump, refrigerator, one set on electrical outlets in the kitchen (mainly for a microwave oven), and the kitchen lights over the island go through something similar to MikeH's gentran switch, connected to a large portable generator.  For heat we have a propane gas fireplace that can be started without electricity, and in the summer we open the windows.

As mentioned above, the downside of our system is we have to be home for it to be effective.  We need to move the generator outside, connect the cable, and switch over the gentran switch.  The upside of our location is if everything fails, we don't get much water in the basement.  We were visiting my very sick sister when we had a hurricane go over our house and we figured the power was out about 12 hours during the heaviest rain.  Had about 4" of water in the basement.  Since then, we now keep everything off the floor when we leave on vacation

I have 4  sump pumps; one is a battery backup.

Still power goes off and the battery only last so long.

Also I rewired the pumps electrical connections to be at basement ceiling height with a line switch to connect them off the main power to a generator.

A Generac is an expensive but useful solution.

Additionally, I have several water sensors connect to my Ring/Alexa network to tell me if any water is present on the basement floor.

The previous owner of my house had an Onan/Cummins whole-house backup generator installed that is powered with propane.  We lose power often enough and in my opinion it's one of the best things ever!  We lost power for days and the propane usage was almost unnoticeable.

I have a different take, central jersey isn't a third world country, power outages are rare and short lived.  Last long one was Sandy.  To that end i have a champion roll away and a transfer switch.  Haven't needed it to power the house in almost 10 years.  I have more piece of mind knowing the several thousand plus service fees has been invested in an appreciation asset.

An update on the usefulness of a whole house generator.  My son's house is in Ulster County, so it's a bit off the beaten track.  The powers been off for over 3.5 hours, and the temp is currently below 30, going down to -1 tonight.  We're inside, warm and cozy, with the lights on and doing some laundry,  In about 30 minutes we're going to start on some Christmas cookies and hopefully watch National Lampoon's 'Christmas Vacation' tonight.

Seasons Greetings to all!

One caution about the water powered jet pumps.  If your drain somehow gets plugged, it will fill the basement instead of drain it!  I had one in a previous house, but I was reluctant to leave it enabled all the time as I have had the sump discharge plugged once.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

One caution about the water powered jet pumps.  If your drain somehow gets plugged, it will fill the basement instead of drain it!  I had one in a previous house, but I was reluctant to leave it enabled all the time as I have had the sump discharge plugged once.

A little plumbing with an outside relief drain resolves this concern.

Parts of Rockaway, Howard Beach, Broad Channel, Long Beach, and other low lying coastal areas in the NYC/LI metro region got flooded by Elliot last night and this morning. Heavy rains and high tides were the cause. My car was in water up to the door sills. Basement is dry. Shades of Sandy😕😕😕

@MichRR714 posted:

A little plumbing with an outside relief drain resolves this concern.

Which I'm sure that 98% of the people with these units do not have.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Which I'm sure that 98% of the people with these units do not have.

That's unfortunate.  Around here it's code.

I'd look at cost of keeping water away. Excavation, some kind of stone/gravel leach bed. If  water is coming back from city. Install a anti backup valve. We've installed them and they work. My 2cts.

AW !!!! THE benefits of living in the South!

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Parts of Rockaway, Howard Beach, Broad Channel, Long Beach, and other low lying coastal areas in the NYC/LI metro region got flooded by Elliot last night and this morning. Heavy rains and high tides were the cause. My car was in water up to the door sills. Basement is dry. Shades of Sandy😕😕😕

Hang in there Mark. Glad the house is dry. Hopefully the car is ok too.

Bob

I routinely get water in my basement, which has two different levels, thus two different sump pumps. I have a small Honda gasoline generator, which can swap between two sump pumps, two fridges and a freezer, and phone charging/internet router. Since I bought the generator in 2011, I have not had an outage longer than 90 minutes. I run the generator for 5-10 minutes every month, and ensure the gas is not stale. This has scared the gremlins away so far.

We were lucky where I live in the Hudson Valley.  Power went out this morning from 5AM to around 7AM and has been on ever since.  Heart goes out to those not as fortunate.

John

We got the power back around after 10 hours.  Because of the whole house generator, inside was lighted and warm in spite of single digit temperatures.  We did make the Christmas cookies.  The only glitch in the plan I stated above is that about 2 hours after my post, the internet connection stopped.  My son's house is so remote, there is no cell service, so we had nothing.  The power and internet both came on at the same time, around 9:00 PM.

Well, if one cant afford a sump pump, back up generator,etc. The easiest thing is store trains and their boxes in water resistant containers [plastic 27/35/40/etc. gal] storage containers at least it can buy you some time to do something if water enters your train room.

I've owned two houses and both had/have wet basements.  There always seems to be sump, backup, leaking or pipe issues.

Last night I came home to the alarm blaring.  The exit pipe separated from the sump and water was shooting up like a geyser.

I suspect ice somewhere in the exit line outside and the pressure caused the separation.

Fortunately this is in the corner of my workshop and not the train room.  So some wood and boxes got drenched.

Wife and I agree, next home, no basement.  We will have an extension built off the garage for a workshop and either an outbuilding or a huge room added for a train layout.  I'm opting for the huge room, so I don't have to leave the house to get to the train room.

The good that came from last night is while re-assembling and testing everything I noticed my battery backup pump would not come on with wall power or battery.  So I need to rip that out and see why, then repair or replace.

In my last house, my train room was a room attached to the back of the garage.  When tornado watches or warnings came our way, I worried about my trains blowing away.  In our current house, I thought I was safe because my train room is in the basement that had never flooded according to the seller's disclosure.  A few years after we moved in, however, we had a freak rain that overwhelmed our sump pump -- so the battery back-up system did not matter -- the pump was working but could not push the water out fast enough -- so we had nearly 2 inches of water on the floor.  I have a Generac generator, too.

I like the suggestion of a water detection alarm system for the floor.  Now I keep all train stuff at least 2 inches off the floor and/or in plastic bins.  Not sure what else I can do for protection from another freak storm that dumps too much water in too short of time.  Making sure the floor is clean, so the drains are unobstructive is wise (our drain quickly clogged as the water came).  I'm considering having an extra free pump handy with a long garden hose to unfurl out the window all the way to the street so I can quickly pump extra water out as an aid to my sump pump if this freak rain ever happens again.  In the meantime, whenever we get heavy rain for an extended period, my blood pressure rises.