CAB2 Questions

@DILLI posted:

I am totally new to CAB2. I absolutely love it and did pretty well with it for my first time ever using it. That being said, I DO have a few questions. I searched Google and YouTube for insight, but I am not seeing answers to my questions. Thought I would ask the OGR:

1. Does everyone power down the track before placing a locomotive on the track? What if you want to remove one locomotive and put another one on the track? What steps do you follow? Sounds like it should be: (a) Power down the track; (b) Remove locomotive from track; (c) Put another locomotive on track; (d) Power up the track. Does this look right? How do you power down the track? Only thing I can think of is the transformer lever. Is there another way?

2. So far, I really do not understand the L, M, H Momentum operations. I accidentally activated it and was not sure how to get things back to non-momentum operations. If I don’t want to use momentum operations, how do I get the locomotive back to regular operation without using momentum? I saw where someone said to push and hold down the L key. Is that what I would do to exit momentum operations?

3. I have seen the different speed buttons that appear at the push of the Speed button, but they look to me to simply be railroad presets for 5mph, 20 mph, 35 mph, 50 mph, 70 mph, and highball. Kind of a quick way to pick preset speeds. Am I correct?

Thanks!

I’ve had mine a few years and I love it also.  It’s a fun way to run trains.

1.  You are correct and that’s how I do it.  I have a power strip and turn on/off power there. I also have switched power on sidings so I can pull an engine onto a siding, power off the siding and remove the engine.

2.  I use the M button. If you hold that down and turn the dial, you can change the momentum from 1 to 8.  At 1, there is no momentum and 8 is full momentum.  4 is the default and I usually run at 5 or 6.  8 is cool but it’s pretty slow to get to full speed or slow down.

3.  You are correct.  You can use those after you set the momentum where you want it.

hope this helps and enjoy.

@Tanner111 posted:

2.  I use the M button. If you hold that down and turn the dial, you can change the momentum from 1 to 8.  At 1, there is no momentum and 8 is full momentum.  4 is the default and I usually run at 5 or 6.  8 is cool but it’s pretty slow to get to full speed or slow down.

To add to this, I think the L M and H buttons are how momentum is set for TMCC locomotives.  L is like instant throttle response, M medium, and with H the locomotive speeds up and slows down only after a lot of throttle (red knob) movement.

@Tanner111 posted:

I’ve had mine a few years and I love it also.  It’s a fun way to run trains.

1.  You are correct and that’s how I do it.  I have a power strip and turn on/off power there. I also have switched power on sidings so I can pull an engine onto a siding, power off the siding and remove the engine.

2.  I use the M button. If you hold that down and turn the dial, you can change the momentum from 1 to 8.  At 1, there is no momentum and 8 is full momentum.  4 is the default and I usually run at 5 or 6.  8 is cool but it’s pretty slow to get to full speed or slow down.

3.  You are correct.  You can use those after you set the momentum where you want it.

hope this helps and enjoy.

Jim - thanks. Everything was going well until I touched the buttons for Momentum. All of a sudden, the locomotive hardly moved. I knew I was over my head and was combing the manual to try to figure out what I had done, but the manual does not really explain the Momentum concept well. I had assumed that H was for high speed, which is why I tried to fix the problem by selecting H repeatedly. I now know that I had it backwards. H means higher degree of the Momentum function. Oh well, I just didn't understand the whole concept of the Momentum function. What an incredibly amazing feature. The difference between these modern locomotives and postwar locomotives is just beyond belief. These modern locomotives replicate the behavior of real locomotives more than I had ever imagined. I absolutely LOVE it!!

From what I am reading, the preset railroad speeds can be used without using the Momentum function.

@rplst8 posted:

To add to this, I think the L M and H buttons are how momentum is set for TMCC locomotives.  L is like instant throttle response, M medium, and with H the locomotive speeds up and slows down only after a lot of throttle (red knob) movement.

Thanks rplst8 - for now I am going to run without Momentum. I am currently just using a very small 9' test strip. Once I have my layout finished, I will check out the Momentum function in greater depth. Just incredible what can be done with these modern locomotives. Absolutely blows my mind.

The idea behind the momentum feature is it simulates the slow acceleration and deceleration of a real locomotive pulling a train.

I use the M setting, and adjust the knob to about 5 or 6.

Another neat feature about momentum is. Once the loco is moving. If you spin the throttle back down to zero brake sounds will come on and the engine will slowly come grinding to a stop.

Since your just getting familiar. The "train brake slider" is actually more of a "train load slider".

Setting the slider lower will limit the speed the loco will go. However, you can turn the throttle past the brake indicator on the screen and the locomotive will labor harder as the throttle is increased.

In the case of steamers. Having the train brake just off the bottom and turning the throttle all the way yields a dramatic chuff. Just like a real steamer fighting a grade.

The cab2 is a great remote. Alot of the features can be discovered simply by " playing around" with it. It's really not as complicated as it may look.

@RickO posted:

The idea behind the momentum feature is it simulates the slow acceleration and deceleration of a real locomotive pulling a train.

I use the M setting, and adjust the knob to about 5 or 6.

Another neat feature about momentum is. Once the loco is moving. If you spin the throttle back down to zero brake sounds will come on and the engine will slowly come grinding to a stop.

Since your just getting familiar. The "train brake slider" is actually more of a "train load slider".

Setting the slider lower will limit the speed the loco will go. However, you can turn the throttle past the brake indicator on the screen and the locomotive will labor harder as the throttle is increased.

In the case of steamers. Having the train brake just off the bottom and turning the throttle all the way yields a dramatic chuff. Just like a real steamer fighting a grade.

The cab2 is a great remote. Alot of the features can be discovered simply by " playing around" with it. It's really not as complicated as it may look.

Thanks, Rick! Once my layout is built, I will try all of the things you shared to see which one I like the most. Who ever thought of this stuff? Unbelievable. It is absolutely amazing! I LOVE it!

@DILLI posted:

Who ever thought of this stuff?

Neil Young. Not surprising that someone who sings, plays guitar and harmonica at the same time could come up with such a genius train controller.

Richard Kughn helped too. He and Neil Young teamed up to create Liontech in the mid 1990s. Liontech created TMCC. Legacy is fantastic, by the way. My favorite feature is obviously the quilling whistle/horn.

@RickO posted:

Neil Young. Not surprising that someone who sings, plays guitar and harmonica at the same time could come up with such a genius train controller.

Great point! Interestingly, Rick, I have loved and listened to Neil Young's music my entire life. I have just about everything he ever recorded. I never would have thought that he would be interested in trains, but I had never really known much about his family life.  I searched for his connection to model railroading on the Internet a few months back and found some videos. I was blown away as I watched the videos of him and his son operating trains. God bless him and his son. Incredible story and situation. Thanks for reminding me about that, Rick! Remarkable situation. Demands our respect for sure.

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

Richard Kughn helped too. He and Neil Young teamed up to create Liontech in the mid 1990s. Liontech created TMCC. Legacy is fantastic, by the way. My favorite feature is obviously the quilling whistle/horn.

So true, Dylan. Thank goodness Richard Kughn came along and worked to get Lionel back on track again (no pun intended). I was into trains back in the 1970s and early 1980s, and then life happened and I got distracted. I was away from the hobby for almost 40 years! Back in August of 2021 I finally got back into everything. These modern locomotives have features that are absolutely unbelievable. I agree - the quilling whistle is just unreal. I am also amazed by all of the methods to simulate increases in locomotive laboring and chuffing. Just incredible. I LOVE it all! The thing that got me into all of the modern locomotives was when I went to an open house at a local model railroading club back in September of 2021. I couldn't get over how slow one of the locomotives was creeping along the track. It looked so incredibly realistic, and the sound was out of this world. You could never do that with postwar equipment. I asked the guy how the locomotive could just creep like that, so steady and unwaveringly. He explained the concept of DC motors to me and speed control, and I fell in love with the whole nine yards. I sold all of my postwar equipment and went 100% Legacy with locomotives. I just used a CAB2 yesterday for the first time on my own equipment and I was absolutely floored by what one can do with these modern locomotives.

True  All of us owe a debt of gratitude to Neil, not only for his incredible musical talent, but his on going input into Lionel and future products...rock on dude

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

Richard Kughn helped too. He and Neil Young teamed up to create Liontech in the mid 1990s. Liontech created TMCC. Legacy is fantastic, by the way. My favorite feature is obviously the quilling whistle/horn.

Don’t forget Lou Kovach and Dr ZW Jon Zahornachy.

What ever happened to Lou Kovach & Jon Z ????  They did so much in the Development of the TMCC & Legacy !

@Fredstrains posted:

What ever happened to Lou Kovach & Jon Z ????  They did so much in the Development of the TMCC & Legacy !

Not sure about Lou but I email with Jon every great while.  He's doing well last time we spoke.

Last time I talked to Jon, he was still doing some consulting for Lionel, I'm glad they have his expertise on tap.  I think he's happy to be working on his terms.

makes me think of Neil young and the south story. I liked some of Neil young's songs but am huge fan of Skynyrd, and wondered why they put Neil down in sweet home Alabama. Then realized it wasn't a put down after googling it. and that they had respect for each other.

@DILLI posted:

I am totally new to CAB2. I absolutely love it and did pretty well with it for my first time ever using it. That being said, I DO have a few questions. I searched Google and YouTube for insight, but I am not seeing answers to my questions. Thought I would ask the OGR:

1. Does everyone power down the track before placing a locomotive on the track? What if you want to remove one locomotive and put another one on the track? What steps do you follow? Sounds like it should be: (a) Power down the track; (b) Remove locomotive from track; (c) Put another locomotive on track; (d) Power up the track. Does this look right? How do you power down the track? Only thing I can think of is the transformer lever. Is there another way?

I think it is really risky placing a locomotive onto a powered track. Probably that fastest way to a short which may damage the engine electronics. Always power off the track when adding or removing. Unless you have a way via the remote (Powermaster, TIU, etc.) Yep, use the handles.

@BobbyD posted:

I think it is really risky placing a locomotive onto a powered track. Probably that fastest way to a short which may damage the engine electronics. Always power off the track when adding or removing.

WOW, that's a big 10-4!  Not a good idea at all!

@BobbyD posted:

I think it is really risky placing a locomotive onto a powered track. Probably that fastest way to a short which may damage the engine electronics. Always power off the track when adding or removing. Unless you have a way via the remote (Powermaster, TIU, etc.) Yep, use the handles.

Good Morning!

My initial question was posted over a year ago when I was first learning about modern train equipment, so I am not sure why my post would only be appearing now. Perhaps you guys are just seeing it now? That's strange. Anyways... no worries... I have always (100% of the time) shut off power before placing a locomotive on the track. Likewise, I have always (100% of the time) shut off power before removing a locomotive from the track.

I agree with your responses, but no worries... I am covered 100% and have been doing things properly from the beginning. Thank you very much, though, for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated!

DILLI

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

WOW, that's a big 10-4!  Not a good idea at all!

Good Morning!

My initial question was posted over a year ago when I was first learning about modern train equipment, so I am not sure why my post would only be appearing now. Perhaps you guys are just seeing it now? That's strange. Anyways... no worries... I have always (100% of the time) shut off power before placing a locomotive on the track. Likewise, I have always (100% of the time) shut off power before removing a locomotive from the track.

I agree with your responses, but no worries... I am covered 100% and have been doing things properly from the beginning. Thank you very much, though, for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated!

DILLI

I am glad this topic re-surfaced as well...because I often overlook the M buttons, and when I do activate them, I don't notice much difference - makes sense reading about using the dial, which as I now recall (after spending a couple hours at my friend Joe's house last Christmas season) where he showed me how to do it. In one ear and out the other. Using the train brake lever is a lot of fun, too.

So, we all agree that the CAB2 is a great way to run our trains.  Given that, why can't Lionel put out a current version?  They've said the boards are no longer available, but I am sure there are current boards that do the same functions - or now even better?  My fingers will not let me run my trains from my phone.  I want to look at my trains when running them, not my phone.  Give me the tactile responses from the CAB2.

@PeterA posted:

So, we all agree that the CAB2 is a great way to run our trains.  Given that, why can't Lionel put out a current version?  They've said the boards are no longer available, but I am sure there are current boards that do the same functions - or now even better?  My fingers will not let me run my trains from my phone.  I want to look at my trains when running them, not my phone.  Give me the tactile responses from the CAB2.

@PeterA.

You're request is apparently unreasonable.  But just like you, many of us don't like this situation.

What can we do?

As far as I can recall they may have implied, but have never formally said, that the boards aren't available.  What's been said is that certain parts are no longer available.

My impression is that it is specifically the touchscreen that cannot be sourced any longer, because it appears to be unique technology (plastic) used only in the Cab-2 and nowhere else.

Touchscreen technology that's used everywhere (glass) is:

1. Easy to find
2. Is unfortunately expensive to use in a single purpose Cab-2 handheld, but not in a multi-purpose phone
3. And since it's used in every smartphone this begs the question "Why not just use a smartphone  to control your trains instead?".

Cab-2 has spoiled us.  Unfortunately Cab-1L is probably the best we can do going forward if you want, or need, tactile feedback.  We'll just have to live without the full feature-support for all of Legacy that the Cab-2 has delivered so well.

Mike

@PeterA posted:

So, we all agree that the CAB2 is a great way to run our trains.  Given that, why can't Lionel put out a current version?  They've said the boards are no longer available, but I am sure there are current boards that do the same functions - or now even better?  My fingers will not let me run my trains from my phone.  I want to look at my trains when running them, not my phone.  Give me the tactile responses from the CAB2.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

@PeterA.

You're request is apparently unreasonable.  But just like you, many of us don't like this situation.

What can we do?

As far as I can recall they may have implied, but have never formally said, that the boards aren't available.  What's been said is that certain parts are no longer available.

My impression is that it is specifically the touchscreen that cannot be sourced any longer, because it appears to be unique technology (plastic) used only in the Cab-2 and nowhere else.

Seems like parts for the Base3 can't be sourced either.

@PeterA posted:

  I want to look at my trains when running them, not my phone.  Give me the tactile responses from the CAB2.

Funny the same thing was said about the DCS controller and Cab2 about them having screens.  That being said I agree the tactile feel is where it's at but I also realize that it's easier for Lionel and more cost effective to let someone else build the hardware and they just supply the app.  It also makes it a lot easier to add functionality.

@rplst8 posted:

Seems like parts for the Base3 can't be sourced either.

If anything - I'd imagine the software probably is going to require a lot of extra work, as they are trying to make the Base become a "do-everything" box.

@MartyE posted:

Funny the same thing was said about the DCS controller and Cab2 about them having screens.  That being said I agree the tactile feel is where it's at but I also realize that it's easier for Lionel and more cost effective to let someone else build the hardware and they just supply the app.  It also makes it a lot easier to add functionality.

Everything seems to be to make it "easier" and "cheaper", not to make it "better".

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Everything seems to be to make it "easier" and "cheaper", not to make it "better".

Sometimes you have to have that balance.  Maybe hardware isn't the "better" solution in this case.  With how fast electronics change a software solution on somebody else's hardware may in the long run make better sense.  I prefer the Cab2 over a phone but I am also realistic.

<Sarcasm>  Of course evil Lionel is sticking it to all of us again. <Sarcasm>

If you wish for a next generation handheld instead of the app, the most useful thing, I think, would be to email Ryan Kunkle or Dave Olson, or the generic Lionel talk to us link and tell them so. If they get a few thousand requests, perhaps the cab-1L handheld will not be the last one standing.  That's what happened when they wanted to discontinue ERR boards.  A whole lot of complaints turned the tide .

Maybe Ryan and Dave could make a deal with the folks at Ring Engineering, to build a special version of their RailPro HC-2 hand-held controller that talks to the Base-3.  An approach like this would seem to only involve software development.  I don't understand how small companies like CVP Products (AirWire) and Ring Engineering can profitably build and sell wireless handheld controllers that are purpose-built for operating model locomotives, while Lionel with its massive user base cannot.  Frustrating!

For operators who have used both, does controlling speed via touch screen technology come close to the finesse = precision of using the Cab II, or even Cab 1 dial for regulating velocity up and down? For me, it does not, but I have a service-related challenge that translates to somewhat jerky screen swipes with resulting loss of accuracy, and so am not an impartial evaluator.

Not to digress too much, though I stand by my original opinion, made some time ago on this forum, that Lionel made a mistake by giving up on the Cab II, notwithstanding parts and technology changes. MTH essentially made the same decision about their DCS controller...and the rest is well, history of what transpired

As someone who began with the simple lever of a Lionel 1015 transformer, through Model Rectifier throttles with rotary knobs, through Kurtz-Kraft pushbutton "walk-around"  handhelds, to the Cab1 and Cab2 and MTH controllers, I've never had to look at the controller itself to run my trains. I get great pleasure from watching my trains respond to my commands rather than looking at the controller to make sure I'm touching the right space on the screen.

But people getting started in the hobby today don't have that perspective and consider looking at their phones for everything as normal. Look at people who are witnesses to a live event / parade / peformance / concert, and spend the whole time looking through their phones instead of at the real thing.

Hopefully the next generation (our grandkids?) will be more enthusiastic about untethering themselves from cell phones and return to a more tactile experience.

@Paul Kallus posted:

For operators who have used both, does controlling speed via touch screen technology come close to the finesse = precision of using the Cab II, or even Cab 1 dial for regulating velocity up and down? For me, it does not, but I have a service-related challenge that translates to somewhat jerky screen swipes with resulting loss of accuracy, and so am not an impartial evaluator.

iCab is ok and the DCS app isn't bad either but the High Rail App uses Apple's tactial feedback via "clicks" and I've found that to be pretty nice.  Much like the Cab2 indents you get the same sensation using the High Rail app to control trains.

The other thing about the High Rail App is the whistle control is literally along the same edge of the screen that the slider for the Cab2 is.  I can operate the whistle without looking at the screen.

You can see it here.  BTW it also allows you to change the operation of the sensor track without physically touching them.

@MartyE posted:

You can see it here.

Shame they didn't do it for Android...

@Ted S posted:

Maybe Ryan and Dave could make a deal with the folks at Ring Engineering, to build a special version of their RailPro HC-2 hand-held controller that talks to the Base-3.

Ryan and Dave don't make those deals. The board room of investors does. They're merely the messengers.

Dave seemed to suggest the possibility of developing the app to be able to communicate with a video game controller. That's the best possible solution in my opinion. Video game controllers are widely available and easy to hold. Logitech/whoever makes the remotes and Lionel just keeps the app up to date...it's easy enough. You could set your phone/tablet down and walk around with the controller.

Fast forwarding to the future, I can see a virtual reality headset app that uses a micro camera in the cab of a model loco to provide you a view out the cab window on your layout, and a suite of realistic cab controls in your hands to enable you to actually drive your train along your layout's tracks as if you were in the cab.

West Side Joe and others, perhaps some of you are already aware of THIS controller:

https://www.iascaled.com/store/ProtoThrottle

It's designed to work with NMRA-standard DCC decoders.  I'm not sure whether it would work on an MTH loco with PS3.  With the right software, I suppose it could be made to talk to the BASE-3.  That might be great for diesel, but what about steam?

BillYo, I've definitely put my time in with PlayStation, XBox, etc. over the years.  I even have a large collection of third-party controllers, because I wasn't 100% happy with the ergonomics for driving games (even Tesla has gone back to a steering wheel!)  All of the popular controllers are meant as a two-handed affair.  I personally prefer the CAB-2 and other controllers that use a rotary knob for speed control.

@Ted S I also dig the rotary knob for speed control and would prefer it. But in the name of not looking down during switching ops, I would accept a game controller.

Lionel should license their system to get a Protothrottle made for Legacy.