Can't control TMCC engines using DCS remote!

First of all, thank you for your concise statement of the facts as you see them.  We don't get this kind of precision very often.  We usually have to dig to find the pertinent information a result.

Has your setup worked before?  In other words have you used the Handheld/TIU to successfully control TMCC locomotives before, or is this your first attempt?

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Has your setup worked before?  In other words have you used the Handheld/TIU to successfully control TMCC locomotives before, or is this your first attempt?

No, it's never worked. I had an old Cab-1 which started acting flakey after some battery leakage, so I never tried it after setting up the DCS stuff. Thought there was something wrong on the TMCC side. Got a couple of Cab-1s and another DCS remote in a bunch of stuff I picked up at an auction, so I figured I'd give it another shot. Much to my surprise, the TMCC engines worked fine with the Cab-1.

I have another TIU and the aforementioned 2nd DCS remote. I may swap them in/out just to attempt to eliminate potential problem sources. It just seems so weird that the DCS remote won't operate the TMCC stuff when the Cab-1 will with literally no hardware changes. Any chance I got a bad cable? That's about the only thing I don't have a backup of.

Here's a simple test to see if the DCS remote/TIU is communicating with the TMCC base: when you have a TMCC locomotive selected in the DCS remote press start up, whistle, etc. Basically any button related to operating that locomotive. Does the red light on the TMCC base blink? If so it's getting commands from the DCS remote/TIU.

@Magicland posted:

The TIU is connected to a Lionel Command Base via an MTH 50-1032 cable, the "TIU" end is connected to the TIU, and the "TMCC" end is connected to the Command Base. The cable was purchased as new, not used.

You may have the wrong cable.  There's a 50-1018 (for Base-1 only) and your 50-1032 (apparently for all bases).

See this link, but be aware that it's not totally clear about the distinction between the two (it implies that the 50-1032 will work with both Base-1 and Base-1L/Base-2), but maybe you need a 50-1018:

   Does anyone know the difference between an MTH #50-1018 TIU/TMCC cable, and an MTH #50-1032 TIU/TMCC-Legacy cable? | GregR

Mike

I have a 50-1032 cable and it works fine with my TMCC base.

Sounds to me like the TMCC engine code is not correct - yes I saw you indicated they were correct. Both Mark B and I got this messed up at first and even after he told me what to do.

I had the same problem. The MTH app does not need to be connected to the TMCC brick to add an engine. In fact it really does nothing except create a placeholder for your TMCC engine.  If you do not know the TMCC engine number (usually 01 for diesels) you will either need a Cab1 handheld to reprogram the engine or keep trying different engine numbers until you get a response. You do not need to switch to Program on the engine to use the MTH control or app at any point.

Another consideration is full power needs to be on the rails for the TMCC control to work.

The following string discussed this in a little more detail.

https://ogrforum.com/...4#158815187602067294

Hope this helps

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

   Does anyone know the difference between an MTH #50-1018 TIU/TMCC cable, and an MTH #50-1032 TIU/TMCC-Legacy cable? | GregR

The MTH 50-1032 works with both the original BASE1, and the newer BASE1L and also the Legacy base.

@Lou1985 posted:

Here's a simple test to see if the DCS remote/TIU is communicating with the TMCC base: when you have a TMCC locomotive selected in the DCS remote press start up, whistle, etc. Basically any button related to operating that locomotive. Does the red light on the TMCC base blink? If so it's getting commands from the DCS remote/TIU.

No blinking red light on the base when using the DCS remote. There is when using the Cab-1.

@Magicland posted:

No blinking red light on the base when using the DCS remote. There is when using the Cab-1.

That's helpful. The TIU isn't talking to the command base. Even if the engine number in the remote was incorrect the TIU would still send a signal to the command base. This means:

TIU to TMCC base cable is bad

TIU serial port has an issue

TMCC base serial port has an issue

The TIU/TMCC communications cable is wired such that the TIU end must be connected to the TIU, and the TMCC/Legacy end must be connected to the TMCC/Legacy base. I know you said you connected it that way. But on the off chance that the ends are mislabeled, swap the cable end for end (so that it is connected the "wrong" way), and try again.  Maybe you will get lucky.

Chris

LVHR

I had this same problem, but with a Cab2 base. TIU would not communicate with the base or engines. Turned out there was a communications problem with the Cab2 base. Installed backup base and worked perfectly. Thanks to Lionel they repaired the base and now works as advertised. You may be dealing with the same type base communication problem. Hopefully this helps.

@Lou1985 posted:

That's helpful. The TIU isn't talking to the command base. Even if the engine number in the remote was incorrect the TIU would still send a signal to the command base. This means:

TIU to TMCC base cable is bad

TIU serial port has an issue

TMCC base serial port has an issue

I've got a backup of everything except the cable, so I guess I'll start swapping things out until I either figure it out, or narrow it down to the cable. Is it just a serial cable with a couple of pins swapped, or is there more fancy stuff in there which could go bad?

@lehighline posted:

The TIU/TMCC communications cable is wired such that the TIU end must be connected to the TIU, and the TMCC/Legacy end must be connected to the TMCC/Legacy base. I know you said you connected it that way. But on the off chance that the ends are mislabeled, swap the cable end for end (so that it is connected the "wrong" way), and try again.  Maybe you will get lucky.

Chris

LVHR

Worth a shot as long as it won't fry anything!

OK, that didn't help. Also swapped out the Command base, but without any different results. 2nd DCS remote didn't make a difference either (though it looks like I need to update it). When I have more time I'll swap in my other TIU. Thankfully I picked all of this stuff up when it was still dirt cheap.

@Magicland posted:

I've got a backup of everything except the cable, so I guess I'll start swapping things out until I either figure it out, or narrow it down to the cable. Is it just a serial cable with a couple of pins swapped, or is there more fancy stuff in there which could go bad?

There is actually some logic in the little "brick" in the cable, it's not just swapping pins.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

There is actually some logic in the little "brick" in the cable, it's not just swapping pins.

Were the earlier "non-legacy" cables just null-modem cables, or did they have something fancy going on too? I can't just run out and pick a new one of these up, sadly. Don't suppose there's any sort of warranty on the cable? Going to swap TIUs tonight to attempt to rule out a bad serial port.

Just saw a pic of the 50-1018, it's got a box too. Oh well...

Or not. MTH website shows one with, one previously listed on ebay shows without.

The old cable had an active element as well I believe.  I never cracked the little "brick" to see what was inside, so I don't know exactly what it consists of.

I actually built a cable to go between the TMCC base and the TIU. The only odd thing I had to do was cross a pair of the pins. I did not install any sort of "brick". the cable still works as it did the day I assembled it. And yes, I did label the ends so I get it installed correctly.

I remember there was an issue with these cables when they were first introduced many years ago. That was why I built mine. I doubt any of those cables still exist.

Chris

LVHR

@ScoutingDad posted:

Sounds to me like the TMCC engine code is not correct - yes I saw you indicated they were correct. Both Mark B and I got this messed up at first and even after he told me what to do.

I had the same problem. The MTH app does not need to be connected to the TMCC brick to add an engine. In fact it really does nothing except create a placeholder for your TMCC engine.  If you do not know the TMCC engine number (usually 01 for diesels) you will either need a Cab1 handheld to reprogram the engine or keep trying different engine numbers until you get a response. You do not need to switch to Program on the engine to use the MTH control or app at any point.

Another consideration is full power needs to be on the rails for the TMCC control to work.

The following string discussed this in a little more detail.

https://ogrforum.com/...4#158815187602067294

Hope this helps

@Magicland I just saw your question.  It sounds like your hardware is alright.  Since both Jeff ScoutingDad and I made this mistake, maybe you are also.  When you add your TMCC engine to the remote, are you selecting the already programmed TMCC address number that was selected when you setup the engine with the Run/Prog switch in the Program mode with your TMCC remote.  For some reason, that tidbit went right over my head for some time, until it dawned on me that is what you were supposed to do.  Then it became obvious to me.  Duh on my part.

FWIW, if you are assigning the TMCC locomotive it's existing TMCC address in the DCS Remote, there is no need to use the PGM/RUN switch, leaving it at RUN will work fine.

Just to make sure my memory wasn't failing, I just tried it, no sweat at  all.

John, yes that is right.  Thank you!  I didn’t think to add that point.  I just put the third of my three TMCC engines in the DCS remote recently.

I don't routinely run my TMCC engines from the DCS remote, but I thought I remembered that correctly.  I did test it just to make sure I wasn't making a false statement.