Can two DCS "Powered" locomotives run in tandem using DCS Remote Commander?

Be sure you are not confusing the DCS Commander with the DCS Remote Commander.

The DCS Remote Commander can only run 1 engine.  The DCS Commander can store up to 10 engines however, it has limited power (something like 100 watts/6 amps) so while it should work as you will seem to use it, please remember you most likely will not be able to run too many more engines at the same time.  Also, it puts out DC to the track so if you want to run any AC powered engines on the same track you won't be able to. 

-Greg

Roger,

The DCS remote commander can run more that one engine at a time but there are some things that you need to be aware of before hand.

The DCS Remote commander will only communicate with engines that are set to DCS ID1. From the factory, DCS engines are already set to the this ID, a TIU setup can also reset the ID back to the factory default. There is also a way to reset PS3 engines to factory without a TIU.

Having two or more DCS engines will work with the DCS Remote commander but both engines will respond to the same commands at the same time. This work best when the engines are configured in a Lash-up facing the same direction.  I've tried this and it works pretty good.

You can also run both engines on separate loops with two DCS Remote commander base units and one handheld remote unit. Simply point the remote at the base unit of the track you want to control and only that engine will respond to your commands. 

Alternately, you can hook two loops of track up to one DCS remote commander base unit and both trains will run independently on there own track but will respond to the same commands at the same time. 

H1000 posted:

There is also a way to reset PS3 engines to factory without a TIU.

Only in some engines made starting in 2014, the firmware was updated to allow you to do a factory reset with the DCS-RC.

Here's the DCS-RC Factory Reset Procedure.

• Turn off power if on Wait 15 seconds
• Turn on power: the engine should be dark and quiet
• Press SND
• Press DIR
• Press "-" (on the gray rocker in the center of the remote.)
• The engine will give a two honk response and will be sitting on the track running The engine has now been factory reset, and is ready to run with your DCS Remote Commander system.

With DCC, you simply consist the locos together and they run together with any throttle. this can be done on any DCC system, NCE, DIgitrax, Lenz, EASYDCC, and a couple of European ones.    This is the beauty of the standardized signal.

H1000 posted:

Roger,

The DCS remote commander can run more that one engine at a time but there are some things that you need to be aware of before hand.

The DCS Remote commander will only communicate with engines that are set to DCS ID1. From the factory, DCS engines are already set to the this ID, a TIU setup can also reset the ID back to the factory default. There is also a way to reset PS3 engines to factory without a TIU.

Having two or more DCS engines will work with the DCS Remote commander but both engines will respond to the same commands at the same time. This work best when the engines are configured in a Lash-up facing the same direction.  I've tried this and it works pretty good.

You can also run both engines on separate loops with two DCS Remote commander base units and one handheld remote unit. Simply point the remote at the base unit of the track you want to control and only that engine will respond to your commands. 

Alternately, you can hook two loops of track up to one DCS remote commander base unit and both trains will run independently on there own track but will respond to the same commands at the same time. 

A lash up is exactly my plan. I want to run two Amtrak Genesis locos together ahead of one long train.

So, if both locos are set as ID1, so that both will pick up the track signal from the single remote commander, they will then act in unison: Correct?

Also, is there a way to make on of these locos run backwards, like I was able to do with my second Lionel Conventional Grand Central express FT lash up, but reversing the two wire plug inside the engine? 

And: Can a PS2 run in a lash up with a PS3?
I have a PS3, and see a PS2 for sale.

So, if both locos are set as ID1, so that both will pick up the track signal from the single remote commander, they will then act in unison: Correct?
Correct

Also, is there a way to make on of these locos run backwards, like I was able to do with my second Lionel Conventional Grand Central express FT lash up, but reversing the two wire plug inside the engine?
You could reverse the polarity of the motor leads to run an engine as you suggested. You will will have to swap the yellow and white wires on the power / motor lead plug that goes to the PS2 / PS3 board.

And: Can a PS2 run in a lash up with a PS3?
Yes it sure can!

Thanks for the info H1000

I do have an Amtrak Genesis Cab 805 with PS1 in phase 3 paint.
I hadn't thought of running it with my PS3 in phase 4 paint, but I see a lot of mixed schemes when I watch videos of real trains running. So now I think I might want to do this after all.

Could a PS1 run in a lash up with PS-3?

RWL posted:

...

Could a PS1 run in a lash up with PS-3?

Presumably you mean in conventional mode.  Turn off the PS-3 engine's speed control using the Whistle-Bell-Bell sequence.  For similar engines that used the same motor and gearing, this will give you the best chance of matching speed vs. track voltage.  YMMV.

Oh that's right, the PS1 can only run in conventional mode. I haven't run it much and not for a long while, so I forgot.
No I really would like to run in dcs mode, but I may try it out just to see how they run regarding similar speed.
My two Lionel conventional Grand Central Express FT's are all but exactly the same speed.
These two Geneses locos do look kind of cool together.

Question: So, to turn on the PS3 speed control, you hit the Whistle then the Bell then the Bell  then the Whistle?
Is this done after the engine sounds have come up, and when it is idling?

How does one turn the PS3 speed control back on?

Thanks again for the tips and suggestions,
Roger

With a conventional transformer (that has a W and B button), press just W-B-B to toggle the conventional mode speed-control.  Toggle means off to on, or on to off.  The engine will give you a double-toot acknowledge sound.  The change will carry-over between operating sessions (it remembers the setting).  The button timing can be tricky.  Here's a video I made some time back showing a more complex button sequence that performs a factory-reset but gives you an idea of what it takes.  You just need W-B-B.  Again, listen for the double-toot acknowledge sound from the engine; that tells you the engine properly received the command.

In all cases, when you turn speed-control OFF, the PS3 engine will run FASTER for the same track voltage than with speed-control ON.  There is no indicator, status light, sound, or whatever that tells you if speed-control is on or off! 

If for whatever reason you get out of sync and don't know where you are (speed control ON or OFF), perform the factory-reset button sequence as shown in the video and listen for the double-toot.  This gets you back to the factory-default setting where speed-control is ON.

Thank you so much.
I can't wait to try it out, and see these locos running together, given that there speeds are similar, of course.

So, I tried the W,B,B, and did not get any double beep.
Is this to be done when the train is under the DCS Remote control, or under conventional control?

RWL posted:

So, I tried the W,B,B, and did not get any double beep.
Is this to be done when the train is under the DCS Remote control, or under conventional control?

Done when a PS2 or PS3 engine is under conventional control.  Probably best to disconnect anything DCS related (such as the DCS Remote Commander) since this can confuse matters by starting up the engine in the shutdown command control state.

Here's the relevant snippet from a PS3 manual:

Presumably you can activate the Horn and Bell.  Can you get any of the W B combo commands to work?  For example firing the rear coupler using B-W-W-W:

What transformer are you using?  There is a list of compatible transformers in the back of every PS engine manual.  Seems I've read some OGR threads about some transformers which generate W and B track voltages that don't "play well" with these W-B sequences.

I am using an MTH Z-1000, at present for my setup testing, and simple running.

You make a good point about removing the DCS receiver box from the system.
Even though I am using a DPDT switch to switch between conventional power and DCS power, that little box does get energized from the track, and lights up even when switched to conventional power.

I will have more time this evening to mess with it, and to see if I can make this all work.
I really do appreciate all of the information that you have shared.

stan2004 posted:

RWL posted:

So, I tried the W,B,B, and did not get any double beep.
Is this to be done when the train is under the DCS Remote control, or under conventional control?

Done when a PS2 or PS3 engine is under conventional control.  Probably best to disconnect anything DCS related (such as the DCS Remote Commander) since this can confuse matters by starting up the engine in the shutdown command control state.

Here's the relevant snippet from a PS3 manual:

Presumably you can activate the Horn and Bell.  Can you get any of the W B combo commands to work?  For example firing the rear coupler using B-W-W-W:

What transformer are you using?  There is a list of compatible transformers in the back of every PS engine manual.  Seems I've read some OGR threads about some transformers which generate W and B track voltages that don't "play well" with these W-B sequences.

OK, I got some time to play around with this loco and ran into an issue.
When I put it on the track, in conventional mode, with the DCS Commander receiver disconnected, the horn blows constantly.
It will stop when I hit the directional button, but then starts blowing again.
This, of course, precludes doing the WBB toggle.

It is a beautiful horn, and that is one of the things that I really like about these locos, but constant is not where it's at LOL.

BTW, when in DCS mode all functions seem to work well.
Speed up
Slow down
Change direction
Blow front or rear coupler
etc.

Update: If I put a lighted car on the track, the horn doesn't blow, but the moment I take it off, the horn begins constant blowing.

Also, I was able to do the H,B,B,B,B,B (H & 5 B' ) process to get the PS3 to blow the horn twice and verify that Speed Control is now on. It is obvious that the loco runs fairly slow under full power with the speed control on.
I will now try to turn it off again, with the DCS receiver box disconnected, then run the two locos together, but not connected, to see how close in speed they actually are.

BTW, you mentioned that this setting is remembered between sessions, so that the Speed Control does not default back to "ON" each time the engine is shut down.
However, the printed instructions do say that Speed Control will turn back to "ON" each time there is a full shutdown of the locomotive.
Is the printed documentation incorrect on this detail?

Thanks again,
Roger

RWL posted:

...

Update: If I put a lighted car on the track, the horn doesn't blow, but the moment I take it off, the horn begins constant blowing.

Now that you mention it, I've heard of that before.  Apparently some transformers need a minimum load to behave well with respect to momentary Horn and Bell DC-voltages injected onto the primary AC-voltage. 

RWL posted:

...BTW, you mentioned that this setting is remembered between sessions, so that the Speed Control does not default back to "ON" each time the engine is shut down.

However, the printed instructions do say that Speed Control will turn back to "ON" each time there is a full shutdown of the locomotive.
Is the printed documentation incorrect on this detail?

I'd go with the printed documentation for the PS3.  Of course you can try it too!  It just seems that this topic came up a while back (10+ years ago with original PS2 engines). 

I know that the direction-lock toggle feature is retained between operating sessions so perhaps I'm confusing that.  Sorry for any mis-direction.

No worries at all regarding the setting retention.
You have shared a wealth of information with me, and I appreciate it very much.

stan2004 posted:

RWL posted:

...

Update: If I put a lighted car on the track, the horn doesn't blow, but the moment I take it off, the horn begins constant blowing.

Now that you mention it, I've heard of that before.  Apparently some transformers need a minimum load to behave well with respect to momentary Horn and Bell DC-voltages injected onto the primary AC-voltage. 

RWL posted:

...BTW, you mentioned that this setting is remembered between sessions, so that the Speed Control does not default back to "ON" each time the engine is shut down.

However, the printed instructions do say that Speed Control will turn back to "ON" each time there is a full shutdown of the locomotive.
Is the printed documentation incorrect on this detail?

I'd go with the printed documentation for the PS3.  Of course you can try it too!  It just seems that this topic came up a while back (10+ years ago with original PS2 engines). 

I know that the direction-lock toggle feature is retained between operating sessions so perhaps I'm confusing that.  Sorry for any mis-direction.

 

 

So, I was able to turn Speed Control off on my PS3 Genesis, and it did run much faster than with it on.
However when I put both locomotives on the track, they seemed to confuse each other.

I just tried it with both on the track, and with the DCS receiver box completely disconnected.
I waited for both to come up and go into idle sound, then when I hit the direction button, to put then into forward direction, the PS1 started moving but the PS3 did not.
I have had this for a couple of tries.

One other thing, the PS1 came up into idle, and gave a single CLANK, like you get when making settings changes.

I have a related question about running multiple engines - apologies if this is answered elsewhere or if I should have posted this as new topic...I tried to search elsewhere for an answer as best I could. I have a simple two connected loop (inside/outside loop) track that is all interconnected (no side track), though I do have a couple of short spurs inside the main loop.  I have a non-remote DCS Commander. I just got a third engine which is PS2 and would like to run two separate trains, one with two of the engines linked (both PS3).  This can be done in the "All" setting, but not if I want to park the single engine train while the other runs.  My set up allows one train or the other to park out of the way of the other, but not both running simultaneously. (Too many switches in close proximity - it's just an 8'x4' table).  With a small setup like mine it is more fun to run one or the other at a time anyway. Is there a way to run two linked engines in tandem without using the "All" mode? I tried to leave the single one shut off while the twin engine train ran but that didn't work. The shut down engine still gets power and moves when the ones responding to the "All" command begin to accelerate, despite still being shut down (no lights or sounds or anything else on). I suppose that is why people wire in a side track somewhere, for this very situation. Is there a way to isolate one of my spurs if I cannot link two engines without using "All" setting? Maybe that is thing to do.  Should I just put in an isolating track piece on each side of the entry to the spur section, leaving the loops still all interconnected?  I can fit the single engine and its cars within the spur area.

Best regards to all and thank you in advance for your input.

Joe

I run my two MTH F'3's with the handheld remote commander. My layout is legacy so it was a cheap easy way to run MtH without spending 500$+ on MTH system. It needs to be reset almost every time I start up the layout because one falls out of sync. Simple and it resets BOTH engines so they operate correctly.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Only in some engines made starting in 2014, the firmware was updated to allow you to do a factory reset with the DCS-RC.

Here's the DCS-RC Factory Reset Procedure.

• Turn off power if on Wait 15 seconds
• Turn on power: the engine should be dark and quiet
• Press SND
• Press DIR
• Press "-" (on the gray rocker in the center of the remote.)
• The engine will give a two honk response and will be sitting on the track running The engine has now been factory reset, and is ready to run with your DCS Remote Commander system.

Thank you for posting the procedure on using the remote commander to perform a factory reset! I used the process successfully last night.

I don't even like to run my MTH engines in lashups because they always seem to fight or be just out of sync, even with a tiu giving the orders. Lionel seems to be much better at syncing up. (Even though I like MTH engines). I had a brand new Maine Central F-3 that always seemed to be out of whack and eventually it fried the board. $450 for the engine and $250 for repairs. I baby that darn thing now!