Change the days for the York meet.

@steam posted:

They are all very interested in trains, work on our layout and typically run trains a few times a week on their own or with me.

Our oldest is running cross country in college.  It's more than just a hobby as they are quite good at it and are hoping or already running for scholarships in college.  They also want to support their overall team's scores.  

I have attended by myself in the past.  Just sharing my experience since the purpose of this thread was about bringing new folks or younger people into the hobby and York.  In my perspective they have never been overly interested in bringing new people in.  From the rules, old stroller rules, days it's open etc etc.  I get it, most of you want to keep it a private meet and avoid the public.  That's fine but in 15 years I can guarantee the buildings will be condensed down QUITE a bit once again.  

If I were the TCA I would realize that model trains is never going to be the big hobby for other generations as it is for the certain age group it is now.  Those folks grew up with Lionel and real trains.  Recognize that any member who is interested in trains is very valuable and try to make the show accessible to every member.

TCA should put out the demographics of its members.  Age groups etc.  I'm sure there are a large number of members within a day trip radius too.  There are several urban and city areas.

Just my thoughts anyhow.

It sounds like your boys have plenty of time later as they get older to get into trains in a meaningful way as most people here on the forum. Sport is the overriding core interest for them for by the sounds of it and the trains are secondary. I am sure York can wait for them to catch up at some point if they do become interested.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Given the location, I don't see York ever appealing to families with children - there just aren't enough of them in the area.

I think this is an important and true statement.........

It's a hike for families (2+ hrs from Philly, northeast PA and DC; 1+ hrs from Baltimore; 3+ hrs from NOVA; 3+ from Central Jersey; 4+ from North Jersey, the NYC Metro area and Pittsburg).....I think we need to have reasonable expectations about how many people might show.....we may be be drawing as many as we can hope for......it will be interesting to see how the new format for the Mon, Tues, Weds pre-Meet evolves.....

Is a different question how do we make it better and more attractive for the "train enthusiast faithful"?

I'm happy the way it is. It fits my current life. However, that is me and I realize that there are as many opinions as there are people who post here. It's a tough question without an easy answer.....

Peter

@Putnam Division posted:

...Is a different question how do we make it better and more attractive for the "train enthusiast faithful"?

I'm happy the way it is. It fits my current life. However, that is me and I realize that there are as many opinions as there are people who post here. It's a tough question without an easy answer...

I agree with the question and your comment about how it fits into our lives.  IMO, part of the problem is that we are constantly reminded that York is an ED event.  I think that part of the solution is to have TCA and ED work together to improve the meet, but unfortunately I don't see that happening.

@cbq9911a posted:

I'm in Chicago, so I'd leave Wednesday after breakfast, overnight en route, and arrive Thursday morning.

Well, there's your problem. Try leaving at 7-8 p.m. on Wednesday. Drive 2-3 hour shifts with the other driver and be disciplined about trying to sleep during your rest shifts. You'll arrive at 6-7 a.m. with breaks. Sleep for another 4 hours, have a big lunch and you're ready by midday.

What? It's just you? Leave at 7 p.m. Drive until midnight. Sleep two hours. Drive two hours. Sleep two hours. Drive two hours. Sleep two hours. Drive to two hours.

The latter is doable, but I recommend going with a driving partner or two.

I personally enjoyed the York meet when it was Thursday and Friday only. It definitely felt special. To me it’s not a show. It’s a train meet for members and guests. The dealer hall today seems more like a Greenberg show selling too many non train related items. Too many gadgets and toys. I don’t think it’s TCA’s job to grow the hobby as some have suggested. I don’t think York is set up to cater to the public. There’s other huge “Shows” that are set up for that purpose.

@romiller49 posted:

I personally enjoyed the York meet when it was Thursday and Friday only. It definitely felt special. To me it’s not a show. It’s a train meet for members and guests. The dealer hall today seems more like a Greenberg show selling too many non train related items. Too many gadgets and toys. I don’t think it’s TCA’s job to grow the hobby as some have suggested. I don’t think York is set up to cater to the public. There’s other huge “Shows” that are set up for that purpose.

Maybe so, but those things help pay the freight.

Unfortunately I do not have many friends in the hobby with ties to TCA, so for me it is not a social event as much as it is a sociological event where you can buy things and enjoy the item and people watching in the most positive sense.  

There are other legacy organizations dealing with the same issues as TCA in general and in conjunction with dwindling attendance at big events such as York.

My simplistic answer is that if York provides something that people value and they cannot get anywhere else; they will come/join.  It really is that simple.  

As for TCA's role in growing the hobby IMO on a National level about the most they can do is facilitate/invigorate local chapters initiatives since it all begins at the local level; not top down.  

For example where is the TCA presence in the Washington/Baltimore corridor?  If there is one I am unaware of its' existence.  This is not criticism just my perception.  It would be fantastic to have a METCA like presence down here.

For whatever reason many train hobbyists that I have encountered over the years harbor a deep and passionate dislike for TCA.  I don't know why except that snobbish/elitism comes up often.  If TCA wants to invigorate themselves and York in the process, they might want to consider extending an olive branch to their critics and try to win them over.

Just a thought not a sermon.

@Former Member posted:

For example where is the TCA presence in the Washington/Baltimore corridor?  If there is one I am unaware of its' existence.  This is not criticism just my perception.  It would be fantastic to have a METCA like presence down here.

The Eastern Division has a very active Chapter called the WB&A (Washington, Baltimore  & Annapolis Chapter of the the Eastern Division TCA). They have meetings, large meets, mini-meets for members.....

They have sponsored railfan trips and every summer organize a ballpark trip to see the Bowie BaySox. Every month, on a Wednesday morning, they sponsor a meet and great at different breakfast places in the NOVA, DC, Annapolis and Baltimore areas on a rotating basis.

They have a newsletter that comes out at least every other month and a FaceBook page..... I am surprised that you have never heard of them.

I've been a member a long time and occasionally go to their NOVA meet and greet....I've been to many of their members-only mini-meets and their regular meets over the years.....

Peter

@romiller49 posted:

... To me it’s not a show. It’s a train meet for members and guests. The dealer hall today seems more like a Greenberg show selling too many non train related items. Too many gadgets and toys. I don’t think it’s TCA’s job to grow the hobby as some have suggested. I don’t think York is set up to cater to the public. There’s other huge “Shows” that are set up for that purpose.

Then what exactly is its job?  Is it simply an entertainment vehicle for it's members?

If it is, does it need new members?  Does it need to grow?

In the past its existing members have had a big say in who gets to join as a new member, ostensibly to keep out the riff-raff and prevent shenanigans in "for sale" or "trade" transactions.  Should this policy be restored?

Ultimately, does it need to diversify and/or expand its ranks, or is it satisfactory to all involved just to remain as-is for the foreseeable future?

If it's entertainment for its members, and it wouldn't benefit from getting larger, then don't invite the public, and consequently don't worry about which specific days are chosen.  It's existing members will come no matter.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Then what exactly is its job?  Is it simply an entertainment vehicle for it's members?

If it is, does it need new members?  Does it need to grow?

In the past its existing members have had a big say in who gets to join as a new member, ostensibly to keep out the riff-raff and prevent shenanigans in "for sale" or "trade" transactions.  Should this policy be restored?

Ultimately, does it need to diversify and/or expand its ranks, or is it satisfactory to all involved just to remain as-is for the foreseeable future?

If it's entertainment for its members, and it wouldn't benefit from getting larger, then don't invite the public, and consequently don't worry about which specific days are chosen.  It's existing members will come no matter.

Mike

As Norton said about the Raccoons, "We need the dues!"

York was never held on Thursday and Friday.  I’ve been going since 1975 and it has always been on Friday and Saturday.

rjm

This whole thread is mostly Bull., but then I have only gone to over 90 York's since 1976.

@eddie g posted:

This whole thread is mostly Bull., but then I have only gone to over 90 York's since 1976.

I disagree.  What's wrong with folks offering opinions and thoughts?  The EDTCA doesn't have to listen to any of them but maybe there is something discussed here that may appeal to them and benefit the meet.  Attitudes like that never solved any problems or help promote new ideas.  Sure there are some ideas totally out in left field but how would we know unless there is discussion.

@Former Member posted:

For whatever reason many train hobbyists that I have encountered over the years harbor a deep and passionate dislike for TCA.  I don't know why except that snobbish/elitism comes up often.  If TCA wants to invigorate themselves and York in the process, they might want to consider extending an olive branch to their critics and try to win them over.

Just a thought not a sermon.

I wouldn't say many but I have met a few people over the years who felt that way. It wasn't always elitism. Sometimes it was due to policies and another reason was when the TCA raised their dues from $35 to $50. I have heard what these guys have to say and there is absolutely nothing the TCA could do to "win them over". Their hatred of the TCA is complete. As they say that ship has sailed. My opinion.

@eddie g posted:

This whole thread is mostly Bull., but then I have only gone to over 90 York's since 1976.

No disrespect Eddie but sorry to say your generation is fading out.  Younger generations want to do things differently.  If the TCA and the York show want to stay relevant.  Change has to be part of the equation.  You may not like it but it is what it is.

@Former Member posted:

Unfortunately I do not have many friends in the hobby with ties to TCA, so for me it is not a social event as much as it is a sociological event where you can buy things and enjoy the item and people watching in the most positive sense.

York is the perfect place to make friends in the hobby.  When I started going to York, I had almost no friends in the hobby beyond the online-only friends I made here on the forum.  At York, I was able to make many of those online friends into in-person friends, and I've also made quite a few friends there that are not on this or any other forum.  Some of them are even close enough to home that I occasionally see them outside of York (usually at other train shows).  Once all of this happened, York became a social event for me, and my York trips grew from very long one day trips, to two-day trips, to three-day trips, to four-day trips, and currently to five-day trips.  And if this Purple Hall "Bandit Meet" turns into a success, it might turn into a six-day trip in the future.   Oh, and if you really like people-watching (and I do, as well), become a table-holder in a member hall and you will see a vast assortment of people of all ages and walks of life to watch.

Andy

@Andy Hummell posted:

York is the perfect place to make friends in the hobby.  When I started going to York, I had almost no friends in the hobby beyond the online-only friends I made here on the forum.  At York, I was able to make many of those online friends into in-person friends, and I've also made quite a few friends there that are not on this or any other forum.  Some of them are even close enough to home that I occasionally see them outside of York (usually at other train shows).  Once all of this happened, York became a social event for me, and my York trips grew from very long one day trips, to two-day trips, to three-day trips, to four-day trips, and currently to five-day trips.  And if this Purple Hall "Bandit Meet" turns into a success, it might turn into a six-day trip in the future.   Oh, and if you really like people-watching (and I do, as well), become a table-holder in a member hall and you will see a vast assortment of people of all ages and walks of life to watch.

Andy

Andy is so right........I didn't have any TCA friends......but, since this Forum started, I have had to fortune to meet many!  In 2000-01, we all realized that we "knew each other" at least by sight because we had all been going to York as loners or in small groups for years. Through friends you meet more people, and that's how I have come to know even more people....and, have more and more train friends......

Chuck, if you are coming to York, join us for breakfast on Thursday AM or dinner on Thursday evening at Quaker Steak....you don't have to know a soul.....all are welcome.......SEARCH......York Breakfast with the SEARCH function and you'll see pictures of previous get togethers.

Peter

@Andy Hummell posted:

York is the perfect place to make friends in the hobby.  When I started going to York, I had almost no friends in the hobby beyond the online-only friends I made here on the forum.  At York, I was able to make many of those online friends into in-person friends, and I've also made quite a few friends there that are not on this or any other forum.  Some of them are even close enough to home that I occasionally see them outside of York (usually at other train shows).  Once all of this happened, York became a social event for me, and my York trips grew from very long one day trips, to two-day trips, to three-day trips, to four-day trips, and currently to five-day trips.  And if this Purple Hall "Bandit Meet" turns into a success, it might turn into a six-day trip in the future.   Oh, and if you really like people-watching (and I do, as well), become a table-holder in a member hall and you will see a vast assortment of people of all ages and walks of life to watch.

Andy

I'm glad I had the sense to vouch for you while that was still a thing. You turned out OK.

@MartyE posted:

... You turned out OK.

LOL!  Some might argue that point...

Andy

"People Watching"  😅😅

I love it. That's when our Blue Hall tables are sllloooooww......  Hopefully this October will be too busy for any of that 🙏.

It's happening in other areas of life. When this generation passes, in-person meetings are done. I see it already in continuing education seminars in my profession. Younger grads don't attend. The number of seminars is decreasing due to lack of interest and high cost. Groups are merging out of necessity to cut costs. As York attendance suffers in the future, those exhibiting will decrease due to high cost and lack of attendance. It would make sense to me for those in charge to look forward and make some changes to make it worthwhile for the next generation(s) to attend and see the value of in-person meets etc.

No dog in this "fight", but it seems like this boils down to three basic questions;

1. Are there things TCA/ED could do to invigorate, expand and broaden the model train hobby ?

2. Does TCA/ED have a responsibility to do so ?

3. Does the membership and leadership of TCA/ED have the ability and desire to do those things ?

This thread has been informative to me.  I especially appreciate the insight from younger members on how things look from their perspective.

I believe attending the Saturday morning Eastern Division meeting is a first step for anybody who wants to help shape the future of the meet.  The entitities that ultimately have to figure out how to get all the moving pieces orchestrated to work together are the York Meet Committee and the vendors/table holders.   

@PGentieu posted:

This thread has been informative to me.  I especially appreciate the insight from younger members on how things look from their perspective.  I believe attending the Saturday morning Eastern Division meeting is a first step for anybody who wants to help shape the future of the meet.  The entitities that ultimately have to figure out how to get all the moving pieces orchestrated to work together are the York Meet Committee and the vendors/table holders.   

Agreed!!!
We need Eastern Division members to come to the Saturday 8AM business meeting.

Peter

I don't understand what you mean "our blue hall tables are so sllooooww"

@romiller49 posted:

I personally enjoyed the York meet when it was Thursday and Friday only. It definitely felt special. To me it’s not a show. It’s a train meet for members and guests. The dealer hall today seems more like a Greenberg show selling too many non train related items. Too many gadgets and toys. I don’t think it’s TCA’s job to grow the hobby as some have suggested. I don’t think York is set up to cater to the public. There’s other huge “Shows” that are set up for that purpose.

Re the non-train related items, I don't think that there are "too many".  Lots of the toys are either trains for little kids or they are items that go with trains such as cars, etc.  If you see something that really doesn't belong, I'd suggest reporting it to the hall captain.

It is TCA's job to grow the hobby.  From section 2 of the TCA bylaws:  "The purpose of the TCA shall be to promote the sharing of knowledge and the appreciation of collecting and operating toy, model, and scale trains."  Promote and share = grow

@Andy Hummell posted:

York is the perfect place to make friends in the hobby.  When I started going to York, I had almost no friends in the hobby beyond the online-only friends I made here on the forum.  At York, I was able to make many of those online friends into in-person friends, and I've also made quite a few friends there that are not on this or any other forum.  Some of them are even close enough to home that I occasionally see them outside of York (usually at other train shows).  Once all of this happened, York became a social event for me, and my York trips grew from very long one day trips, to two-day trips, to three-day trips, to four-day trips, and currently to five-day trips.  And if this Purple Hall "Bandit Meet" turns into a success, it might turn into a six-day trip in the future.   Oh, and if you really like people-watching (and I do, as well), become a table-holder in a member hall and you will see a vast assortment of people of all ages and walks of life to watch.

Andy

@Putnam Division posted:

Andy is so right........I didn't have any TCA friends......but, since this Forum started, I have had to fortune to meet many!  In 2000-01, we all realized that we "knew each other" at least by sight because we had all been going to York as loners or in small groups for years. Through friends you meet more people, and that's how I have come to know even more people....and, have more and more train friends......

Chuck, if you are coming to York, join us for breakfast on Thursday AM or dinner on Thursday evening at Quaker Steak....you don't have to know a soul.....all are welcome.......SEARCH......York Breakfast with the SEARCH function and you'll see pictures of previous get togethers.

Peter

Amen to both of you.  In recent years I have started to attend more of the various meetings associated with York and spend more time talking with people - it has greatly expanded my circle of train friends and enhanced the overall experience.

@Putnam Division posted:

Agreed!!!
We need Eastern Division members to come to the Saturday 8AM business meeting.

Peter

Can people who aren't members of ED attend / speak at the meeting?  IMO, a big part of the issue is that York is important to all of TCA, but it's run by one division that doesn't seem to listen to input and ideas from other members. 

I honestly don't know what the TCA can do that would actually help. I think the best thing it can do to help promote the hobby is make the York Meet the best it can be. When I got back into this hobby in the late '90s I saw articles about York which made want to attend York. The interactions I had with people there and the information I got there fueled my interest and passion for this hobby. I get it though, things are different now and people can get what I got at York back then from their home computer.

There is a very interesting article in the Sep/Oct O Scale Resource magazine. You can read it for free. https://oscaleresource.com/WP/C  I realize this is a O scale 2 rail publication but what it says applies to York and many other groups. Go to Page 5 (Publishers Desk) and go down to where it says Dave Stewart's thoughts on the future of O scale (2 rail). Dave Stewart is the owner of the famous Appalachian & Ohio O scale 2 rail railroad. I really think he hit the nail on the head with his thoughts. One thing he says is that [I don't know if I am allowed to copy and paste it here so I will paraphrase] the attendance and decline issues are as much a societal change as any of the other issues/challenges put forth for events like York. The internet and social media has left its footprint on everything and now a person can get information and interaction, the exact things I got from my first York in 2001, immediately and for free from their laptop. The internet is an endless entree without any cost or commitment.

As a perfect example I belong to a small car club called The Slant Six Club based here in NJ. It's open to anyone who has interest in the Chrysler Slant Six. I joined because I knew a couple of people who were members. I no longer own a Slant Six but I am very interested in Chrysler vehicles. The club once had almost 60 dues paying members when I joined but now they are down to about 40. The decline is mainly due to people aging out or unfortunately passing away. The dues are $16 per year and all you get is a newsletter but I also get a small discount on my classic car insurance so being a member is very affordable. Anyway, some years ago the President of the Club decided to start a club page on Facebook in the hopes that people would join the Facebook page and then eventually become a dues paying member and attend the events the club puts on. Well we did get people to join the Facebook page. We have 20,804 members on the Facebook page but here are a few statistics.

• The number of people who joined the Facebook page and became dues paying members: 0
• The number of people who joined the Facebook page and attended any of our events: 0 (Granted many of those 20,804 people may live too far away but I bet a small percentage like in the NJ area)
• The number of people who joined the Facebook page and then attended our Winter Meeting (which is also held virtually over the computer: 0

I would have been happy if we got 2 people to join the club but in every category we got ZERO! In my opinion this is very telling.

What Dave Stewart said in that article is spot on because it matches what I have seen with my car club and York. The question is what can be done to change the decline of membership and decline of attendance to events in various groups? The answer may well be that nothing can be done to change these things. As Dave says it is societal change. Dave also mentions the decline of marriages and birth rates as social data reveal an increasingly lonely and isolated populace. This is strange to me because in my opinion is one of the greatest or most fun things about the hobby of model railroading or classic cars is attending an event and seeing in person cars or trains and meeting the people in person who built them. It seems to me some people look to the TCA and say "fix this" as it pertains to York but this is a very difficult problem to fix and I don't think it is fair to lay it all on the TCA. While the TCA should do what it can to promote membership and York but maybe just making the TCA (and York) the best association/meet it can be will help in getting new members. This may mean making some changes if the changes will be to the benefit of the majority of the members.

@Hudson J1e posted:

I honestly don't know what the TCA can do that would actually help. I think the best thing it can do to help promote the hobby is make the York Meet the best it can be. When I got back into this hobby in the late '90s I saw articles about York which made want to attend York. The interactions I had with people there and the information I got there fueled my interest and passion for this hobby. I get it though, things are different now and people can get what I got at York back then from their home computer.

There is a very interesting article in the Sep/Oct O Scale Resource magazine. You can read it for free. https://oscaleresource.com/WP/C  I realize this is a O scale 2 rail publication but what it says applies to York and many other groups. Go to Page 5 (Publishers Desk) and go down to where it says Dave Stewart's thoughts on the future of O scale (2 rail). Dave Stewart is the owner of the famous Appalachian & Ohio O scale 2 rail railroad. I really think he hit the nail on the head with his thoughts. One thing he says is that [I don't know if I am allowed to copy and paste it here so I will paraphrase] the attendance and decline issues are as much a societal change as any of the other issues/challenges put forth for events like York. The internet and social media has left its footprint on everything and now a person can get information and interaction, the exact things I got from my first York in 2001, immediately and for free from their laptop. The internet is an endless entree without any cost or commitment.

As a perfect example I belong to a small car club called The Slant Six Club based here in NJ. It's open to anyone who has interest in the Chrysler Slant Six. I joined because I knew a couple of people who were members. I no longer own a Slant Six but I am very interested in Chrysler vehicles. The club once had almost 60 dues paying members when I joined but now they are down to about 40. The decline is mainly due to people aging out or unfortunately passing away. The dues are $16 per year and all you get is a newsletter but I also get a small discount on my classic car insurance so being a member is very affordable. Anyway, some years ago the President of the Club decided to start a club page on Facebook in the hopes that people would join the Facebook page and then eventually become a dues paying member and attend the events the club puts on. Well we did get people to join the Facebook page. We have 20,804 members on the Facebook page but here are a few statistics.

• The number of people who joined the Facebook page and became dues paying members: 0
• The number of people who joined the Facebook page and attended any of our events: 0 (Granted many of those 20,804 people may live too far away but I bet a small percentage like in the NJ area)
• The number of people who joined the Facebook page and then attended our Winter Meeting (which is also held virtually over the computer: 0

I would have been happy if we got 2 people to join the club but in every category we got ZERO! In my opinion this is very telling.

What Dave Stewart said in that article is spot on because it matches what I have seen with my car club and York. The question is what can be done to change the decline of membership and decline of attendance to events in various groups? The answer may well be that nothing can be done to change these things. As Dave says it is societal change. Dave also mentions the decline of marriages and birth rates as social data reveal an increasingly lonely and isolated populace. This is strange to me because in my opinion is one of the greatest or most fun things about the hobby of model railroading or classic cars is attending an event and seeing in person cars or trains and meeting the people in person who built them. It seems to me some people look to the TCA and say "fix this" as it pertains to York but this is a very difficult problem to fix and I don't think it is fair to lay it all on the TCA. While the TCA should do what it can to promote membership and York but maybe just making the TCA (and York) the best association/meet it can be will help in getting new members. This may mean making some changes if the changes will be to the benefit of the majority of the members.

Phil:

Well said. The only thing I would add is that Covid-19 and runaway inflation have both had significant negative impacts on attendance at meets and shows, as well as memberships in clubs and associations.  

Pat

@prr6200s2 posted:

York was never held on Thursday and Friday.  I’ve been going since 1975 and it has always been on Friday and Saturday.

rjm

RJM, you are correct. I did mean Friday and Saturday.

Wow, this discussion started on 4/24/23 and still chugging along.  I would add my 2 cents worth and say that exclusivity assures extinction in today's environment, especially in niche hobbies like model railroading.  330 million folks in the US and a tiny fraction exist pursuing model trains.  I am amazed we have the manufacturers we do have, and perhaps thank free enterprise and capitalism in that a person can start a business making train widgets that people will buy, or a bigger company, like Menard's, will jump into a market with few buyers, but enough to help their bottom line.  I double checked the York event info and see it says open to general public on Friday and Saturday only.  Now if the focus of York from Monday to Thursday is to sell only to those who are 'in', and think this is a good strategy, then they must know what works.  But, here in the South we have a saying about small Baptist Churches, "You ain't in, if you ain't kin", you can go there but there is a good chance you will never be accepted, and only partially if you marry into one who is 'in'.  A lot of those churches are boarded up now.  Might be an indicator that is applicable to this hobby  too.

Some very good points were made about the changes society has had since York began.  While I pointed out some things in favor of having it more on the weekend, us younger members should honor what the older members still enjoy too.  

I think being involved with kids is a way to grow the hobby.  Unfortunately a lot of parents don't do a whole lot with their kids.  Heck, look around anywhere you go, phones are always a distraction.  There just aren't that many Dad's looking to do something like go out and buy plywood and build something.  I really wonder what will happen with the mental/cognitive affects on kids with so much screen time and phone use.  Look at the reply above about a separate hobby club on Facebook.  It's almost like Facebook is a separate world people live in.  

Perhaps something the TCA could do is increase their online presence.  If a lot of people spend their time online, perhaps offer more of a draw for things people could get at home online.  I imagine that is what the folks realized at OGR a while back.

@EricTrainMan posted:

I debated on whether or not to comment on this thread but I’ll share my thoughts.

As someone on the younger side of this hobby I’ll say this, York is an incredible experience and I believe it’s critical to the future. That said, the current format doesn’t work for those that represent the future. Thursday is the best day to find that rare item and get the best product before it’s gone. But the future of the hobby is working or in school. The half day Thursday isn’t really enough to soak it all in, so you must go 2 days. That’s now 4 vacation days a year we have to take (figure 20% of most people’s allotted vacation time) to attend York 2x a year. Especially for those of us with children and hectic lives, it becomes a barrier to attendance.

Going to a Friday & Saturday show seems like it makes the most sense to me. Friday members only and Saturday open to the public.

Eric:

You certainly make some very fair points here, but many of the members, myself included, were able to manage our way through these very valid issues in our younger days. When our three children were in school, I left from CT very early Thursday morning, a 4 1/2 hour drive, attended the York Meets on Thursday and Friday, and drove home Friday evening. Trust me, the drive home was not fun!

Thursday, the Meet opened at noon, as continues to be the case with current York Meets. There was no need for me to stay until Saturday, as I was easily able to go through all of the Halls in 1 1/2 days. That way, I stayed in a hotel only one night and my wife and I had the entire weekend to spend time with our children. Yes, that cost me 2 extra vacation days per year, but it was well worth it, IMO. Your post was not entirely clear, but it appears that you are proposing two full days - Friday and Saturday. That would mean that many (likely most) members would have to travel to York Thursday and thereby have to stay an extra night at a hotel if they wanted to be there when the Meet opened at 9:00 a.m. Friday and/or needed more than one full day to do their searching.

The principal concern I have with your proposal is that it appears to be focused solely on the needs of the the younger group of members, but does not address what works best for the older group of members, who comprise most of the membership. Additionally, having a full day on Saturday would potentially be problematic for many of the dealers, as it would mean that they would all have to do their set-ups on Thursday and have to do their teardowns late Saturday after the Meet closed at 5:00 or 6:00 p.m., or potentially early Sunday morning, if that were an option. Today, while the large dealers set up on Wednesday, there are a number of smaller dealers who set up on Thursday morning, before the Meet opens. Those dealers would likely have to do their set-ups on Thursday, under your proposal, as well.

All dealers currently do their teardowns on Saturday, when the Meet closes at 3:00 p.m. (BTW, many dealers commence their teardowns earlier). Another concern is that York Meets are booked years in advance, and it is not clear whether Sundays would even be available for the purposes of dealer teardowns. I suspect there would be some significant pushback from dealers if they had to do their teardowns on Saturday after 5 or 6, depending upon when the Meet closed.

Finally, and most importantly, while we seem to have this discussion before every York Meet, I think it is likely academic, as it appears to me that the Eastern Division is unlikely to change the dates and hours of future York Meets.

Pat

Can we just close this now?

Wait for it to resurface next March.

@steam posted:

Some very good points were made about the changes society has had since York began.  While I pointed out some things in favor of having it more on the weekend, us younger members should honor what the older members still enjoy too.  

I think being involved with kids is a way to grow the hobby.  Unfortunately a lot of parents don't do a whole lot with their kids.  Heck, look around anywhere you go, phones are always a distraction.  There just aren't that many Dad's looking to do something like go out and buy plywood and build something.  I really wonder what will happen with the mental/cognitive affects on kids with so much screen time and phone use.  Look at the reply above about a separate hobby club on Facebook.  It's almost like Facebook is a separate world people live in.  

Perhaps something the TCA could do is increase their online presence.  If a lot of people spend their time online, perhaps offer more of a draw for things people could get at home online.  I imagine that is what the folks realized at OGR a while back.

I agree about the screen time. I see it in my step children. It isn't just video games or video games you play on your phone. They watch (what I consider to be for the most part ridiculous) short videos on Youtube or TicToc. I don't have a problem with video games or the videos they watch although some are way to mature and inappropriate for their age. What bothers me is that they will stay on the screen or the video game console all day without stopping unless the parents (my wife and I) put a stop to it. If it were me I would want to do something else after a while but they almost never get to that idea. I think most parents try to limit the screen time (we do) but some don't and those kids spend WAY too much on their tables/phones/video game consoles. I think you're right. It doesn't have to be Facebook but whatever they are doing is like a separate world they live in.  I really wish my step kids had an interest in trains or cars but they don't and while I don't have a layout I have taken them to various train shows, events and train rides. At least they will have those memories of trains even though the younger one says trains are boring. What gets them excited is when the next season of Fortnite is coming out.

Side story:There is a show called "A Thousand Ways to Die" and it is about the strange way some people die based on true stories. One story was a younger person (IIRC) who wanted to stay on video games for a long period of time I think it was for a couple of days. He ordered a pizza and ate some of it but couldn't get off the electronics to put it in the refrigerator. He left it on the floor instead. The next day he ate some more of it and he got food poisoning really bad and died from it. I sincerely hope we don't hear more of these stories in the future. I wonder if there will be clinics for people addicted to screens. I mean in today's world the screen (computer/phone/tablet) are in a way like food. Most people need at least a little bit of it to survive and accomplish things in life. It is hard to go completely off the grid. I have heard of a bootcamp for teenagers that doesn't allow screens and teaches them how to get along in life without them and how to interact with people without using a screen.

I apologize for getting sort of off topic. Back to the subject of York. I enjoyed every York I ever went to and I was supposed to go to April York but my job sent me to Oklahoma. I already have plans in the works to go to York next month. I am very much looking forward to it and I am happy to support the meet and the TCA.

Way off topic….  In regards to screen time, our kids haven’t had their own phone growing up. Once they are older teenagers they are welcome to buy one themselves.  We don’t allow them access to tv anytime they want especially when they were younger.  It is possible.  Sure we were against the grain but we just didn’t care.  Not trying to sound like a saint either.  I have just read allot about mental health and addictions and social media and all.

It has been interesting to hear them form their own opinions.  Some days they would have indoor recess and they would say there wasn’t much to do because everyone was on their phones. It is like they formed an opinion on their own that living on a phone is in a way missing out on the real world.  

@Hudson J1e posted:

I agree about the screen time. I see it in my step children. It isn't just video games or video games you play on your phone. They watch (what I consider to be for the most part ridiculous) short videos on Youtube or TicToc. I don't have a problem with video games or the videos they watch although some are way to mature and inappropriate for their age. What bothers me is that they will stay on the screen or the video game console all day without stopping unless the parents (my wife and I) put a stop to it. If it were me I would want to do something else after a while but they almost never get to that idea. I think most parents try to limit the screen time (we do) but some don't and those kids spend WAY too much on their tables/phones/video game consoles. I think you're right. It doesn't have to be Facebook but whatever they are doing is like a separate world they live in.  I really wish my step kids had an interest in trains or cars but they don't and while I don't have a layout I have taken them to various train shows, events and train rides. At least they will have those memories of trains even though the younger one says trains are boring. What gets them excited is when the next season of Fortnite is coming out.

Side story:There is a show called "A Thousand Ways to Die" and it is about the strange way some people die based on true stories. One story was a younger person (IIRC) who wanted to stay on video games for a long period of time I think it was for a couple of days. He ordered a pizza and ate some of it but couldn't get off the electronics to put it in the refrigerator. He left it on the floor instead. The next day he ate some more of it and he got food poisoning really bad and died from it. I sincerely hope we don't hear more of these stories in the future. I wonder if there will be clinics for people addicted to screens. I mean in today's world the screen (computer/phone/tablet) are in a way like food. Most people need at least a little bit of it to survive and accomplish things in life. It is hard to go completely off the grid. I have heard of a bootcamp for teenagers that doesn't allow screens and teaches them how to get along in life without them and how to interact with people without using a screen.

@steam posted:

In regards to screen time, our kids haven’t had their own phone growing up. Once they are older teenagers they are welcome to buy one themselves.  We don’t allow them access to tv anytime they want especially when they were younger.  It is possible.  Sure we were against the grain but we just didn’t care.  Not trying to sound like a saint either.  I have just read allot about mental health and addictions and social media and all.

It has been interesting to hear them form their own opinions.  Some days they would have indoor recess and they would say there wasn’t much to do because everyone was on their phones. It is like they formed an opinion on their own that living on a phone is in a way missing out on the real world.  

Both of you are way off base here.  What does all of this have to do with York and scheduling, expect maybe to imply that younger TCA members are odd because of their modern communication methods and other hobbies, and that the next generation of TCA members will be non-existent because they'll all be brain dead.

Is either true, or likely to be so?

No.

Be careful casting such a wide net.  The future of the world, in addition to that of our hobby, depends on the up-and-coming younger folks.  They will do just fine carrying the baton.

Many, many of us present-day oldsters had odd upbringings and habits at one time as well.  (Think late 1960's , early 1970's.)

York will survive, as will our hobby.

Mike

@John Mitchell posted:

Can we just close this now?

Wait for it to resurface next March.

LMAO, good one

@superwarp1 posted:

LMAO, good one

I believe we are not allowed to pack up this thread until after Saturday October 21st at 4pm.  Anyone packing up this thread before then is subject for removal from said thread. 

I was fortunate to attend two Yorks as part of an East Coast business trip,  so my airfare was covered.  However, I  still needed a rental car and hotel. York is not the easiest place to get to,  I ended up flying to Newark Airport and drove to York.   This is not a cheap trip by any means.  At some point the Eastern Division may need to consider having only one meet a year which is the must attend meet, versus two meets that are less well-attended and not worth the effort and cost to attend.

@superwarp1 posted:

LMAO, good one

Hey Gary, I had dinner with you and your son on one of my York trips. Really enjoyed meeting you!  Best, Dave