Change the days for the York meet.

@laming posted:

...snip..."Everyone" means just that, unless you're using the word as a synecdoche. However, your follow up thoughts you expressed indicates you did not intend to use it as a synecdoche. ...snip... Andre

At the very least, after wading through this whole thread, I just learned a new word today!

When I started attending the York Meet in 1984 it was Friday and half a day Saturday. BUT the entire week included all of the bandit meets at different hotels and parking lots. I was jealous of the guys who went for the whole week. I would go for the day on Friday. My interest at the time was Lionel postwar and MPC. I remember hearing about guys making a killing at the bandit meets then reselling their purchases to us at the TCA meet.. I amassed a nice postwar collection and was able to fill in new products at near preorder prices. Those were the days I'd come home with a trunk full.

With the evolution of the trains, the high tech improvements and the finely detailed scale models, have captured the interest of many of us. Most of my train budget consists of preorders from the latest Lionel catalog. That being said, I really miss the Lionel and other manufacturers presence at the meet. It was a chance to see preproduction models and ask any questions I might have about things I planed on ordering. I find myself questioning whether or not I want to drive from New York now that there are few manufacturers and none of the big guys. I actually have a few friends that no longer attend for this reason.

But the idea of seeing and talking to friends has contributed greatly to my decision to continue to attend. I would really like to see the Eastern Division and Lionel resolve their issues. If Lionel comes back I think others will follow. And guys like myself, who always looked forward to Lionel's presence and no longer attend may come back as well.  

@Mallard4468 posted:

A few more observations...

I wonder if anyone from ED watches the York posts.  If not, they probably should...

IMO, the critical question for ED is "what should York be?".  If it's going to be a meet primarily for diehard enthusiasts, so be it.  Unfortunately, I think the result of that will be a slow death spiral as the folks who fit that description age out of the organization.  If it's going to be a vehicle for growing the hobby, then changes need to be considered.  There's a lot of parochial thinking in TCA in general and ED in particular.  The efforts to expand the audience for York have been half-hearted at best.

Regarding who is responsible for growing the hobby - expecting manufacturers to do it is misguided - they're in it to make a profit.  Every one of us who enjoys trains should share the responsibility for bringing others into the hobby - if we expect "someone else" to do it, it won't happen.

Who knows, maybe someone from Eastern Division does read posts on the OGR Forum because they have recognized it as a valuable source for information about the hobby in general and now also for feedback from the core, target audience in particular? Maybe they were at the 8:00am meeting on Saturday and just mayhaps they volunteered to bring back Kids Korner at York this Spring after being gone for 3 and a half years?... I'm going with all of those things did indeed happen. Just sayin' 😉

Rob Newman

99-49679

Director - TCA Eastern Division

Kids Korner Chair

I like the meet the way it is. Kudos TCA-ED.

I also like the way it is. Many thanks to Those workers that put this meet on. Thanks Dianna & Debbie, and all the other workers.

@laming posted:

I very much support this hobby with my hobby $$ as well as sharing via forum participation (helping others/etc). I also welcome any non model-railroader that happens to visit our home to view my layout IF (after finding out I am a model railroader) they show an interest in seeing it. I answer their questions and give a very brief demonstration of how things work.

However, to throw an all-inclusive blanket over me telling me it's also MY responsibility to grow anything hobby-wise: You're gonna' have a tough (impossible) time selling that to me.

I have enough "must do's" in life. Adding such a responsibility is not going to be among them. Period.

Whose primary responsibility is it to "grow" this hobby? I personally feel it's those that are in this "hobby" to make a profit or have a financial stake in it. Let THEM do the footwork/legwork, and stir interest. THEY'RE the ones that will profit the most. I'm the CONSUMER... they are the FOR PROFIT producers. It's up to them to create product/interest that makes me want to spend my hobby $$.

At my age (71), and given the secondary market flooding, I can sustain myself within the hobby without the need of purchasing anything "latest/greatest". I have almost everything I need in order for my hobby to take me to the end of the line. Those things that I need (supplies/parts/etc), are in strong supply and in current production without needing me to "grow their business" for them. That's their worry, not mine.

My hobby "concern" is to accomplish as much as is practical on my layout, and enjoy it as much as is practical, until that day I must pull my final pin in this life.

Andre

Agree wholeheartedly.  Well said.  

Another point that Skip mentioned also bears emphasis:  Lionel is the biggest name in the hobby, and if there was some sort of juvenile spat about Orange Hall location preventing them from attending (I recall some last minute announcement from Lionel when this first came up that gave off that impression), I would tell EDTCA to get it resolved, pronto.  If there are actual business reasons Lionel or other manufacturers won't attend, then that is outside of EDTCA's control and you can only do what you can do.  But if it is some sort of idiotic dispute, then that is something within EDTCA's control and it should be resolved.  The meet is more interesting, and there will be more "buzz" if the major manufacturers are at the show.   And sometimes you need to stoop to conquer, as they say.  

After initially posting, it occurred to me the inherent difference between a convention and a show, and while TCA has separate conventions, and despite being a TCA member, I forgot exactly how the York show is promoted. A quick check of TCA's site, it is clearly advertised as a Train Meet. Yet, they also list the following: "The York Expo Center and the Operating Layout Buildings are open to the Public."

Therein lies the challenge of the Eastern Division coordinators. I applaud them for opening the "meet" to the public, though I wonder how many of the "public" actually attend, which brings the subject full circle and back to Scott's proposal.

@eddie g posted:

We don't want the public. We want members. Come on Scott. leave the meet just the way it is. Maybe all day Thursday.

This old-fashioned, close-minded attitude is EXACTLY why this show/meet is dying. Eddie, where do you think new members come from?  

I agree with changing the show/meet to Friday-Sunday.

Mr. Melvin, you do see the news everyday. Do you think all these people affected by the disastrous happenings just in this country are not train collectors? If they would change the days Friday through Sunday will you and the staff be at a vendor table?

Saying the meet is dying is a bit extreme. Changing, and going back to its roots as a member-to-member private meet? Yes. Dying? I don't think so. Before what we know as the Orange hall was built, the York meet was still a big event. After outgrowing a nearby livestock pavilion, it moved into one hall on the fairgrounds and then, as it grew over time, it expanded into other buildings.  I remember it was a huge deal that there were 4 halls (red, white, blue and yellow) back in the 70s when I started attending. Things change over time, and if it means going back to "only" 4 halls, I don't see that as an indication that the meet is dying.

Earlier this month, we were all informed that this organization lost TCA as an advertiser; does that mean OGR is doomed as well?

Rich, So like Blue Comet said, are you going to set up on Friday, Saturday and Sunday?????????

@BlueComet400 posted:

Earlier this month, we were all informed that this organization lost 2 advertisers; does that mean it is dying as well? Probably not.

Speaking of which did anyone ask anyone from the TCA about this or at least get their side of the story? 

Point 2, everyone that wants to change and go the entire weekend start your own show, the same weekend and compete with the EDTCA.  Competition drives change and improvement.  Or is it too much work?

Question for those that want to change EDTCA’s York meet. Are you saying that the “public” should be allowed into the member halls? Would that many individual sellers still come if there was no PA tax break and this just became another show?

And what public are you wanting to attend?  Pittsburgh has a population of 300,000 ($60k ave income) and York has 45,000 ($48k).  

I would hope the folks that put on this meet look at all sides to this and do their best to satisfied their members.

@laming posted:

You just did (in your original post), Mike. I was only quoting your own words, which were: "Isn't it clear that it's everyone's responsibility, manufacturers and hobbyists, TCA and EDTCA, included?" (The italicized emphasis on "everyone's" was inserted by you.)

"Everyone" means just that, unless you're using the word as a synecdoche. However, your follow up thoughts you expressed indicates you did not intend to use it as a synecdoche.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with one trying to make an impact upon what one perceives as a need, or even working under the perception that it's their personal responsibility to do so. However, I feel its misguided when that person attempts to coerce others into joining one's "cause" by trying to project it onto others as being "their" responsibility also.

As for "who carries on next"? Those that decide to receive the baton and continue the relay run.

Andre

Andre,

I most certainly did not intend to shove anything down your throat, or anyone else's for that matter.

I guess when we speak of "we" it should be obvious that it's not really "we" because there will always be someone that disagrees, but then this is the essence of the struggle to find something in common between all of us, whether in the hobby or on the OGR Forum.

This commonality is very important for the future of the hobby, and it's apparently what TCA is looking for in trying to prepare for it.

If we can't agree that we all have some responsibility for preparing for the future, at least can we agree that we have more in common than not?

If not I suggest, to avoid this kind of misunderstanding in the future, that we assume that all of us are different, and that we have nothing in common.  In this way we will not put words in any one person's mouth that they do not agree with.

Sorry for stepping over the line.

Mike

An Open Letter to the Eastern Division:

First, I really love coming to York and want the meet to continue.  This letter is written in that spirit.  A few posts back I proposed an auction and a social for Saturday night.  It's not in my nature to criticize without proposing something that would help, so here goes.

One idea that our NMRA Division has used to great advantage is that of a silent or Chinese auction.  Our division solicits desirable items from donors that members can buy tickets for.  Gee, how about asking Lionel to donate 1-2 BigBoys (or giving the Eastern Division an absolute rock-bottom price to acquire them for auction?).  Or Atlas?  Or MTH?  Or asking some of the big stores / distributors (Charles Ro, Mr. Muffin, Trainland, Mario's Gryszboski, etc.) to donate items for auction?  Then throughout the preceding days of the meet (Thursday, Friday, Saturday - whatever), members can view the item, decide to bid, buy 2-part tickets, fill them out, and put the identifying part in the bin of their choice (keep the numbered part).  No limit on the number of tickets that can be purchased.  Make the price $1-2 / ticket.  

On Saturday night, you open one of the smaller halls, say Purple or Black and hold the auction.  Encourage some food trucks to park outside so that people can get something to eat and watch the show.  Then you bring in someone to pick from the bin, announce the result (no shortage of self-important blowhards for that purpose), and award the prizes.  You could also coordinate the ice-cream social for the end of the evening.  Make it a party.

Our NMRA division uses this technique to help offset our Model Railroad Jamboree every April.  We auction off dozens of donated items.  Say you get 400 members (out of a potential 8,000 member attendance) interested in the auction and each decides to spend $20 (sell the tickets only in multiples).  You'll gross $8,000 but more importantly, create interest and a reason to keep coming back.

I guarantee you will have a crowd and raise some money - maybe enough to help with the meet costs.  Keep the auction for members only and tell the taxman to take a hike.  This also creates an inducement for joining the TCA.

Yes, there are some details to work out.  And yes, it takes upfront preparation and work to ask for donations.  No question there.  But I think the reward far outweighs the effort.

That's the proven idea that I freely give to the Eastern Division to help them out.  All you need is the will to carry it out.

George

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

[Snip]  You don't join the TCA just to go to the ED Train Meet.   [Snip]

Just my opinion!

While there are many topics in this thread that I could comment on, I will limit my response to just the statement quoted above.  I absolutely joined the TCA many years ago solely to be able to attend the York train meet.  After attending a few times, I let my membership lapse.  Although I considered going back after the dealer halls were opened to the public, I have not as of yet.

@Dave Nichols posted:

Mr. Melvin, you do see the news everyday. Do you think all these people affected by the disastrous happenings just in this country are not train collectors? If they would change the days Friday through Sunday will you and the staff be at a vendor table?

@eddie g posted:

Rich, So like Blue Comet said, are you going to set up on Friday, Saturday and Sunday?????????

I don't understand the connection between everyday news and the question posed this thread.

I also can't answer the question about Friday through Sunday setup. I'm not an employee, partner, owner, or stockholder in OGR now. I retired from OGR back in 2018, so those decisions are not up to me any more. My comment about the day change was just a personal observation.

However, without some serious effort on the part of EDTCA to attract new, younger members, the likelihood of Lionel, OGR, and other manufacturers coming back to this meet is pretty slim, no matter what the days are.

G3750, No one is going to stay on Saturday night for an auction. Every one is heading home at around 2-3 pm. I would like to see the auction come back, but on Thursday or Friday night.

Eddie G

You use this forum for free to support the York meet constantly yet you are not a forum supporter. Why?

Gunny

@eddie g posted:

G3750, No one is going to stay on Saturday night for an auction. Every one is heading home at around 2-3 pm. I would like to see the auction come back, but on Thursday or Friday night.

Eddie,

The point was to hold the meet Friday, Saturday, and Sunday (until 2).  That way the Saturday night auction is a draw for people.  And those whose appetite was whetted that night have Sunday morning to finish up their shopping.  I mean seriously, the weekend is pretty much done in the current format.  Why not take advantage of Saturday night and Sunday morning to mop up?

In any case, ignoring the situation (keeping things the same) doesn't grow the meet, doesn't improve things.  Adapt or die.

George

Gunny, None of your business.

@Dave Nichols posted:

If they would change the days Friday through Sunday will you and the staff be at a vendor table?

At this time, OGR is planning to be at the October Meet. Not sure what arrangements we (Alan Arnold and myself) might make for booth space (if any), but Alan will work that out. I definitely plan to be at the October event, the Good Lord willing, and I really don't care what days the meet is held.

@Allan Miller posted:

At this time, OGR is planning to be at the October Meet. Not sure what arrangements we (Alan Arnold and myself) might make for booth space (if any), but Alan will work that out. I definitely plan to be at the October event, the Good Lord willing, and I really don't care what days the meet is held.

I hope that means  booth space. No offense but if you’re just walking around then OGR is really not at the meet, you taking advantage of it. To me being a vendor at the meet means you have a booth and a display. It doesn’t have to be big as we have seen from MTH lately.

Now I understand that maybe 1 meet is more social such as the “Find Dave and Allan” promo last year but when I hear OGR is going to be at the meet I hope a booth is in order where folks don’t have to be looking in the halls for a random chance meeting.

Take this post in the spirit it is intended. To see OGR again with a presence even if smaller.

Agreed, Marty. Any business whose principals/employees are there to promote its product and acquire customers, having only paid the entry fee and not committed to booth space, is simply taking advantage of the situation. I have participated in trade shows / conventions to promote my business, and every time, I was required to rent booth space.

I like the half day Thursday and Friday days.  It gives me the weekend to visit with my brother-in-law in PA on the weekend.  We used to go on Just Saturday before retirement.  It took us longer in travel time then we spent at the show.

@BlueComet400 posted:

Agreed, Marty. Any business whose principals/employees are there to promote its product and acquire customers, having only paid the entry fee and not committed to booth space, is simply taking advantage of the situation. I have participated in trade shows / conventions to promote my business, and every time, I was required to rent booth space.

Just so you and Marty know (I said this in an earlier thread), "OGR" in the recent past PAID for booth space even though we did not set up ... AND not one new advertiser or new subscriber was obtained when we did our promotion at York last year.  We gave away a lot of money and product to those that participated and once again, just like the past decade, went into the hole.  Of course we did this promotion for several reasons not limited to trying to sell our apparel, but to create some excitement and promote the York meet.  We provide FREE sub-forums here on the OGR Forum for both TCA and York demonstrating our support.  Also, keep in mind that everyone here at OGR is a member of TCA and all of us were members BEFORE our association with York.  Heck, I was a member of this forum for quite a few years before coming aboard the OGR train.  I think more than anything else, everyone needs to understand that businesses (and even non-profit organizations like the TCA) will not be around if they don't have financial support.  Heck, out of the millions of pages views we have here and tens of thousands of members, only about 400 of you give $1.00 per month for a supporting membership.  Using the quoted statement above, does that mean the rest of you are taking advantage of OGR?  We don't think so and are very fortunate and proud of the members of this forum even though we all don't agree all the time.  Nothing wrong with that rather it is more of how we disagree.  Anyway, OGR made a decision several years ago to attend the Fall York meets.  Setting up a booth or booths is less likely for us for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here but we are committed to paying for a booth so that at least we are doing our part to support the York meet.  Oh, and I don't think the EDTCA thinks OGR is "taking advantage of the situation".

I will let this thread run a little longer but if it gets to far off the rails, it will be closed.

Yes Alan I know you have said you’ve paid for a booth. I personally would like to see you guys in it but you have your reasons I guess.

Hopefully some day you’ll be able to return.

@BlueComet400 posted:

Agreed, Marty. Any business whose principals/employees are there to promote its product and acquire customers, having only paid the entry fee and not committed to booth space, is simply taking advantage of the situation.

I believe my partner--the other Alan--clarified this in his post after the above-quoted one appeared. We (OGR) pay for booth space even if we do not actually use the booth. The TCA-ED is not being "taken advantage of"  in any way, and I have, in the past, even registered and paid for meets that I will not be attending. I have been a devoted supporter of the York Meet and the TCA since I joined in 1992 after moving back to the mainland from Hawaii. I may harbor opinions about the meet or the organization that others may or may not agree with, but all are intended to be seen as constructive criticism, often based on experience from both my personal and business perspectives.

In my case, as editor of the magazine, my primary business-related reason for being at York is to meet with past, present, and future authors, and to get a feel for the state of the hobby through conversations with advertisers, dealers, and manufacturers. Can't really do that very well if required to stand or sit in a booth. The past several meets, where I circulated around pretty much from opening to close (admittedly mostly in the Orange Hall) led to a number of excellent prospects for editorial content for the magazine. Just a handful of those prospects garnered at any meet makes attending well worthwhile.

Please accept my apologies for making the incorrect assumption about "booth space(if any)."

@MartyE posted:

Yes Alan I know you have said you’ve paid for a booth. I personally would like to see you guys in it but you have your reasons I guess.

Hopefully some day you’ll be able to return.

So paying for a booth requires us to also be in it?  That would be fine but for MANY years, we did not sell enough in the booth to pay for the hotel, meal, gas, rental, etc. bills.  Most folks know that we teamed up with Mr. Muffins and offer our product at one of his manned booths.  Seems to me that our new arrangement benefits all sides ... but I realize not everyone is going to see it that way.

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

So paying for a booth requires us to also be in it? .

I guess not, since you haven’t been. I said it would be nice.

If the EDTCA doesn’t require it then do as you see fit.  If you and your team find it more beneficial to be mobile then that’s what you need to do.  Sure I know OGR and the Muffins have teamed up.

Look Alan all I’m saying it would be good to see the leading O Gauge magazine be more visible.  Only you know if that’s viable. Either way I’ll continue to support OGR via subscription and the various supporting memberships.

Much like suggesting to change the days it was just a thought.

@scott.smith posted:

If we are going to get serious about bringing in the public we need to get real about.

Thursday through Saturday is not working. By the time guests arrive Saturday people are packing up to go home. People that have jobs the Thursday, Friday thing doesn't work that well.

Shift the entire event to Friday-Sunday.  Open the meet at noon on Friday for members only. Saturday 9-5 or 9-6. Sunday will be a much shorter event. Honestly I don't like Sunday as an event day because I go to church every Sunday. However I feel this would work better. The public can see more, the membership gets first shot.

What do you guys think?

Scott Smith

Agreed weekends are better, Sunday is so so but Friday Sat with end Sunday would be better.

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

So paying for a booth requires us to also be in it?  That would be fine but for MANY years, we did not sell enough in the booth to pay for the hotel, meal, gas, rental, etc. bills.

I doubt many manufacturers break even. It’s called advertising and customer outreach.

Lionel has their reasons for not attending.

OGR has their reasons for not attending.

And EDTCA has their reasons for not advertising.

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

[Snip]  You don't join the TCA just to go to the ED Train Meet.   [Snip]

Just my opinion!

@GregM posted:

I absolutely joined the TCA many years ago solely to be able to attend the York train meet.

That's the only reason I joined. I used to frequent French's Trains down in Baltimore when I got back into trains and they asked me if I'd ever been to York  and when I told them no they gave me an application and 2 of the store personnel signed the 2 signatures for me so I could attend. It's been fun but like any group or organization the few Debby Downers (and you know who you are) have taken a lot of that out of the sails and made it seem like we should be happy to be part of the Borg Collective.

Jerry

Having been there multiple times I have concluded that the very best York day is Friday at the October meet. It is very disappointing to see venues packing up as early as noon on Saturday.

I suggested at the Saturday morning Eastern Division meeting that the show be three days:

Friday, Saturday, Sunday for members and member halls.

Saturday and Sunday for dealer halls and the public.

After being cut-off from speaking because of time on Saturday morning I was stirred up and asked eight Orange Hall dealers that I know about  my proposed schedule. Seven out of eight agreed. One said keep it the same.

Any TCA event that is oriented towards TCA-only attendance is on a downward spiral. The Eastern Division Board reported that the York meet has usually attracted 40-45% of the entire TCA membership for decades. Even the same for this April's show. One can surmise from that fact that TCA national membership is on a steady decline. TCA York for decades was known as a members-only event. Even though the dealer halls have been "open to the public" for five years or so, in general the public either does not know it or chooses to look down on the show as a "members only" event.

Last week's show was one of the best dealer display shows that I have seen at TCA York. Understand that I have been exhibiting in the Orange Hall only since 2016. There should be no reason why one of the best assemblies of toy trains in one location is not filled on Saturday and half of Sunday twice a year. Families interested in toy trains can't come on Thursday and Friday. People interested in toy trains and have heard that Saturday is a mail-in day will not come. The TCA can not recruit new members if potential new members don't come to see what it is all about.

So does the Eastern Division membership and their brethren support the opportunity for dealer to sell their wares, or does the rental income from dealers help support such a large show? Here are some facts: if the dealers don't make money, they will leave early or not come at all. If the dealers don't come, how will TCA members get such an opportunity to see so much in one location and chat with some who actually produces or sells the product? If the TCA does not attract new members, there will not be a next generation to fulfill the C of TCA. The current young generation does not support the idea of membership, in general, to anything, but there is no way you are going to attract new members if those potentially interested don't even get in the door to get educated about the topic, in this case- toy trains.

I haven’t attended York in a few years. I do attend the Big E show in Springfield every year. I always attend on Saturday and it is very crowded. One year I couldn’t do Sat. and went on Sunday. Totally different atmosphere. Many families with young kids. The big attraction was not seeking out trains or collectibles. It was viewing the layouts.
I’ve heard the public being allowed in the Orange dealer hall. Are they also allowed in the halls with layouts to view ?

@Todds Architectural Models posted:

Even though the dealer halls have been "open to the public" for five years or so, in general the public either does not know it or chooses to look down on the show as a "members only" event.

The current young generation does not support the idea of membership, in general, to anything, but there is no way you are going to attract new members if those potentially interested don't even get in the door to get educated about the topic, in this case- toy trains.

I partially disagree with the first statement. I highly doubt that the "public" looks down on the show as a "Members only" event. The meet is geared to the die hard O Gauge Train enthusiast. If the ED decides they want more of the public to attend they need to have more things to attract families such as a train ride around the grounds, train races like Allentown, a couple of more display layouts and perhaps a slot car track that kids can race on and win a medal. At times Edison has had the slot car track. Then possibly families who have a slight interest in model trains would make the trip and attend. I agree most of the public doesn't know about it or they don't feel it is worth their time and money to attend. Another thing is I don't think the "public" (and by saying the public I mean people or families who have a slight interest in model trains) are willing to drive long distances to ANY train show not just the York Meet. York is not a huge city. Unlike Edison, NJ where it is in the most densely populated state. There are many populated towns near Edison and it is also close to Staten Island. I just can't see Mom and Dad packing up the kids and driving for hours to go to any train show. Maybe it does happen in some cases but then either the Dad, Mom, or the child has more than a slight interest in model trains. In my opinion we want the people who have a slight interest in model trains to attend any train show because maybe their interest will grow.

The second statement answers itself. No matter how much the young generation (most but not all) likes toy-trains they are always going to think I can get all I need from forums like this, you tube and other online venues that are free so why should they spend the $50 to join and at this point I wonder if it is the money. Perhaps just don't want the so called responsibility of being a member of a group. As I said earlier it is a sad situation but it is what it is. My opinion.

I am surprised to hear that the dealers would want a Friday, Saturday and Sunday Meet but if they and the ED feel it will improve attendance then I say give it a try. Either way I will still attend. Every year I attend Chryslers at Carlisle and that show has been growing every year. A few years back (not counting 2020) they were at 2700 cars and they were growing by 100 cars every year until last year they broke 3000 cars. It's a very well run, well attended show but even that show is kind of dead on Sundays. I usually go home on Sunday. Friday and Saturday are the big days and I can usually see everything over those 2 days. I would not be surprised if York was the same way if it were Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

@Dave_C posted:

I haven’t attended York in a few years. I do attend the Big E show in Springfield every year. I always attend on Saturday and it is very crowded. One year I couldn’t do Sat. and went on Sunday. Totally different atmosphere. Many families with young kids. The big attraction was not seeking out trains or collectibles. It was viewing the layouts.
I’ve heard the public being allowed in the Orange dealer hall. Are they also allowed in the halls with layouts to view ?

Yes. They are only not allowed in the Member Halls.

I was at Springfield this past January on Saturday. I saw a lot of families with young kids. There is a lot to see there for novice model railroader. I guess even more families attended on Sunday. Interesting.

@Dave_C posted:

I’ve heard the public being allowed in the Orange dealer hall. Are they also allowed in the halls with layouts to view ?

Yes.  They are allowed in display halls and Orange Hall.  One could argue does it make sense to put the displays in the Orange Hall and keep the public in and around the folks they can buy from. Nothing generates a sale than seeing what you buy operating.  One in each corner.  Make them navigate the hall through the vendors.  Again just a thought.