Change the days for the York meet.

Why is the public avoiding it?

Not enough publicity? Are they advertising? I don't know the answers to those questions.

I wonder if it is just the demographics......it's not in a major population area....just sort of close to many.....let's face it..... most of us are addicted and therefore, think nothing of the drive.....

60-90 minutes from Baltimore depending on where you live.

2 hrs from most areas in DC with another 30+ minutes depending on where in northern VA.

Usually 4 hours from Richmond if I-95 traffic is favorable.

Anywhere from 2-3 hours from the Philly Metro/South Jersey area.

At least 2 hours, maybe a little more from Allentown/Bethlehem.

Probably 3 hours from Scranton-Wilkes-Barrie

4-6 hours depending on where you live in the North Jersey, New York metro area, Long Island and Southern CT.

I would guess around 5 hours at least from Pittsburgh.

It's a long drive for people who can say, I'll just go to the next local show around here.....

Maybe our expectations for huge public attendance is misguided.....

....and, I had a great time this past week...thank you Eastern Division!

Peter

I must be doing something wrong…

I got to the Wyndham at 6:00 am Monday morning and left the fairgrounds 12:30 Saturday in my truck camper to head home.

In that time period I “urinated” though over 2200.00 dollars in purchases and had the time of my life… just like the previous 68 or so Yorks before this one !

no complaints here…

@eddie g posted:

Your right JOHN, This happens every 6 months. Why don't you guys let the eastern division decide what they want.

My request that EDTCA change the fall meet to September was not a complaint or in any way serious. I was trying to add a little levity to the discussion and make the point that no matter when the meet is scheduled, there will be TCA members who can go and those who cannot go for whatever reason. For me, it is simply bad timing. CPAs don't take time off during tax season, and insurance agents who represent Medicare plans don't take time off during Medicare Annual Enrollment, which happens to overlap with the fall meet. Back when Annual Enrollment started on November 15, going to York in October was not an issue, but now that it starts in October, taking time off for anything isn't going to happen. Heck, I don't even rake my own leaves on fall weekends. I now pay someone to do our fall cleanup as my weekends are better-spent "taking care of business."

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

One must be prepared to make sacrifices for one's hobbies and extra-curricular activities.  For 37 years, in periods of self-employment, no employment, being laid-off, being retired, and Workin' for the Man, I have scheduled time off to attend the ED meet, because it's important to me.

If you can't figure out how to get one day off, twice a year, you need to re-evaluate your priorities, or switch to stamp collecting.  It's worked fine since 1955. Let's not try to find a solution to a non-problem.

And, I concur that we don't want the general public attending. We want members. And we need to go back to the two-signature rule, for security reasons.

Glad to hear someone else speaking up about using time off.  We Americans work more hours than every other first-world countries - too many of us are afraid to use the measly time off that we have EARNED, and some folks even leave vacation time on the table at the end of the year - why??  Like @Arthur P. Bloom, I've taken time off for York as an employee and while self-employed.  If one can't take a few days off a couple of times each year, a new job is in order - good employees are hard to find, and life is too short.  (Apologies to those whose jobs have seasonal busy times, but not many are busy in both April and October.)  And, as I've pointed out in other threads, York was very well-attended back when a larger percentage of attendees were of working age - take the d*** time off!

I think @Putnam Division made some excellent points regarding why York's location might not be conducive to attracting the public.  I'm open to a different schedule if it allows the meet to continue as a viable event.

Given the tax collection issue for the member halls, I'm not convinced that opening to the public will be the bonanza that some people think, but I also think that ED needs to be less provincial in their thinking about non-members.

It's amazing how many people chime in who are not TCA members.

@eddie g posted:

It's amazing how many people chime in who are not TCA members.

Hi Eddie, you make a good point. I am a TCA member and joined 10 or so years ago so I could go to York, which I did twice. Wondering if the Eastern Division or the TCA have done a member survey on improving the organization, and the York meet.  I think this would be an important step.

For me the whole experience was positive, starting with the team that helps with parking.  What a friendly, and welcoming group.  

@eddie g posted:

It's amazing how many people chime in who are not TCA members.

No disrespect but sometimes you need someone looking in from the outside, I was at one time, but other things have gotten in my way to spend money this way or that way.

@BlueComet400 posted:

"Given the tax collection issue for the member halls, I'm not convinced that opening to the public will be the bonanza that some people think, but I also think that ED needs to be less provincial in their thinking about non-members."

If the meet goes public, I predict there will be no going back once the commonwealth of PA gets its hands on the tax revenue.

I never meant for my comment to be that, as PA. would love to collect sales tax from that hall, I'm still for keeping that hall for members only,

@Allan Miller posted:

Folks are always lamenting growing the hobby. My recommendation: Forget about putting the responsibility for future growth on the TCA or, even more unfairly, on the TCA Eastern Division. Those groups have heard it all before.

If you want to see the hobby grow, the very best way to do it is to do it yourself. If every member of our great hobby--including OGR Forum participants--would take it upon themselves to attract just ONE new participant to the hobby on an annual basis, the growth would be there. "Grow the hobby one person at a time" is something I have advocated for years, and I firmly believe that OGR magazine has helped to cultivate interest successfully, even though the magazine is no longer readily available at newsstands and large book retailers such as B&N and others.

When you have a visitor to your layout, or come across someone else in your circle of friends, colleagues, or acquaintances, who asks about your hobby, consider giving him or her one of your past issues of OGR. Perhaps--just perhaps--when they see a sampling of what this hobby offers, they may may enticed to jump in and give it a try. And they will know who to turn to if/when they have questions or need some advice.

Alan, although I'm not a member of the TCA, I was at one time but not in the future for me because of other things, I have in the past 4 or 5 years donated Three completely new train set to a child with a note included on how great the TCA is and what they can do for you in items like research. It's my way of supporting.

I joined TCA 1996. York meet was always a very special event for members only and I wanted a piece of the action. So, becoming a member was my goal. I don’t feel that York is a train show. It’s a train meet for TCA members. There are plenty of other local shows that cater to the public. If York becomes a public event I can’t see how TCA  can expect to increase membership. It will no longer be a special meet that encourages membership to attend. We can invite a friend as a guest or simply promote the York meet as such. Keep York special. I prefer the two day meet of Friday and Saturday. No Sunday. This will keep the costs down for dealers and members with tables.

Every time this subject comes up, l wonder how many new members will develop out of the few who will make the drive to the fairgrounds from an hour's radius of York?  Already train fanatics will know about and heard about it.  When l was working, l would have loved the meet on Sunday, with one less day taken off.  Now, with aging and mostly retired membership?, will much be gained?

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

One must be prepared to make sacrifices for one's hobbies and extra-curricular activities.  For 37 years, in periods of self-employment, no employment, being laid-off, being retired, and Workin' for the Man, I have scheduled time off to attend the ED meet, because it's important to me.

If you can't figure out how to get one day off, twice a year, you need to re-evaluate your priorities, or switch to stamp collecting.  It's worked fine since 1955. Let's not try to find a solution to a non-problem.

And, I concur that we don't want the general public attending. We want members. And we need to go back to the two-signature rule, for security reasons.

If your traveling from west of Indiana I'm guessing it is at least a 12 hour drive.  To do that without beating yourself up it is a two day trip. So now to attend Friday it is 3 vacation days.

@BobbyD posted:

If your traveling from west of Indiana I'm guessing it is at least a 12 hour drive.  To do that without beating yourself up it is a two day trip. So now to attend Friday it is 3 vacation days.

Two hours by plane to Baltimore and hour and a half drive to York. Take the three vacation days anyway. JUST DO IT !!

York is York, The Eastern Division is doing the best they can.  Want to change the date of the World Series, the Masters, the Super Bowl?  Do your best with what you have and what is offered.  John

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

And we need to go back to the two-signature rule, for security reasons.

LOL.. Because we all know nothing ever was stolen from York when we all had to get two signatures. (Let's start with Lionel's original demonstrater Odyessy motor)

Really can you factually point to any recent problem that two signatures would have prevented?

There are no organized gangs of model train thieves who prey on TCA members. Most recent theft from train shops i know of are done by tweaker who hope to get twenty bucks to score some blues.  But are deeply disappointed to find no one will by what they steal.

As for the point of this topic, I'll be traveling from near  the Pacific coast of Oregon to York. I vote for more days. I'll use them

"too many of us are afraid to use the measly time off that we have EARNED, and some folks even leave vacation time on the table at the end of the year - why??"

Um... cause we're busy?

I get four weeks paid plus all the sick time I need... but I always end the year trying to figure where to jam in another week or two of vacation.

Jon

@KOOLjock1 posted:

"too many of us are afraid to use the measly time off that we have EARNED, and some folks even leave vacation time on the table at the end of the year - why??"

Um... cause we're busy?

I get four weeks paid plus all the sick time I need... but I always end the year trying to figure where to jam in another week or two of vacation.

Jon

I've learned to take advantage of all my vacation and PTO.  Back in the day I used to leave some on the table because we were "busy" and I get some folks have no choice but York is always 4 of my vacations days.  It becomes a benefit to the company when you don't take it unless they are willing to buy you out.   But enough of the non train talk, this is an "interesting" thread but Norm is right, it's almost as predictable as the sun coming up.

I'll close by saying many thanks to all of the EDTCA members and volunteers.  It must stink to work so hard and make sure everything goes as smooth as possible just to have a lot of folks complain about it.  I believe somebody pointed out that there is an meeting open to all TCA members to express your concerns.  Maybe use the EDTCA website to contact them might be the more direct approach.

It never hurts to bounce some ideas but in the end its up to the EDTCA and it's members.  See you in the fall and again thanks for a great April!

@Andy Hummell Thank you for posting those stats. Those are definitely higher numbers than I thought.

I wonder the same thing, just how many of the so called "public" are ex-TCA members who want to go to the dealers halls without paying any dues? I can only guess but I bet it is a high percentage. When I mentioned the public in my previous post I meant the public only in the way they TCA allows it now. I would NEVER in a million years advocate for the public being allowed to enter the entire show. It would kill the TCA. I have read many people on this very forum who said they would drop their TCA membership in a heart beat if York was open to the public.

@Traindiesel "These days all hobbies are experiencing downward membership and attendance as prices and inflation increase." I agree with this statement but I don't think it is only based upon price. I am in a car club called The Slant Six Club. Dues are $1.33 per month ( paid $16 per year). Let's face it anyone should be able to put aside $1.33 a month if they feel a club has some worth to them. I have made many friends through being a club member and gained much help and information about these cars over the years. To me it is well worth the $16 a year.

We have about 35 members but have been losing some. We used to be about 60. The President of the Slant Six club in order to try to increase interest and dues paying members started a Facebook Page and in a short time he got something 2 thousand followers or Facebook members. For the last 3 years we have opened up our winter meeting to any of the Facebook members without any cost. They can attend in person or if they are far away they can attend via Zoom meeting. Guess how many of the 2K have attended our meetings? ZERO! Guess how many have become dues paying members? ZERO! Why? That's anyone's guess. It just seems to me that people today (not all but most) have no interest in joining a club or association. I think it is sad because they are missing out on great friendships and great information.

@Allan Miller posted:

Folks are always lamenting growing the hobby. My recommendation: Forget about putting the responsibility for future growth on the TCA or, even more unfairly, on the TCA Eastern Division. Those groups have heard it all before.

If you want to see the hobby grow, the very best way to do it is to do it yourself. If every member of our great hobby--including OGR Forum participants--would take it upon themselves to attract just ONE new participant to the hobby on an annual basis, the growth would be there. "Grow the hobby one person at a time" is something I have advocated for years, and I firmly believe that OGR magazine has helped to cultivate interest successfully, even though the magazine is no longer readily available at newsstands and large book retailers such as B&N and others.

When you have a visitor to your layout, or come across someone else in your circle of friends, colleagues, or acquaintances, who asks about your hobby, consider giving him or her one of your past issues of OGR. Perhaps--just perhaps--when they see a sampling of what this hobby offers, they may may enticed to jump in and give it a try. And they will know who to turn to if/when they have questions or need some advice.

I agree with Alan.  I noticed most of the posts are about individual people's preferences (time off, work schedules, time of year, certain days).  But nothing really on how to expand the TCA membership.  You don't join the TCA just to go to the ED Train Meet.  It seems that is all it is equated too.  You join to become part of an organization that enjoys and promotes the collecting of toy trains!  That where everyone should focus.  Start your own local groups that pulls in young members, and they will naturally join the organization if they fall in love with trains too! 

I have always liked that the ED meet was TCA members only.  Just opening to the public is not going to increase membership.  Then it is just another train show that families go to, so they have something to do. Like going to an amusement park.  They aren't going to spend big bucks on trains.

It looked pretty healthy to me on Friday as people were bumping into me! 

Remember, the number of members at the ED Meet is not the number of members in the TCA.  There is a whole country of TCA members!

I would love to see Thursday as a full day (it's always too short, lol), but either way I am there!

I think it says something when you are willing to pay 50.00 to get a membership.  It means want to be part of the TCA and have a common interest with other members and want to be part of a group that shares those interests.

There are plenty of shows for the general public.

Concerned about membership?   Then do as Alan said and start your own local groups and bring in new members.

Just my opinion!

could someone refresh my memory how the sales tax dodge works?

Apologies for the long post.  This is an issue to which I have given some thought when driving the kids home from the last October meet simply because, like many here, I think the meet and the hobby are terrific and it's a little sad to see what's going on.

For starters, I am probably a younger TCA member (under 50) and here are some observations or questions.  That's probably relevant for people to keep in mind when evaluating my views.

As far as the question itself, it comes up every York because if you go to York, you can see the aging of the attendee population and it is striking.  

Second. why is it the responsibility of the TCA or EDTCA to grow the hobby?  What are the manufacturers (Lionel, MTH, Atlas, others) spending to advertise?  TV is probably outdated and too expensive but what about social media and the internet?   Start with the manufacturer and the product itself, and their efforts to reach new customers.  Hobby shops like Trainland and Muffin "get" the importance of internet in advertising.  What are Lionel and MTH doing?  Atlas?  Williams appears to be on life support but what is Bachmann doing in G or HO gauge?  York was the biggest when the hobby exploded with new product and interest in the mid to late 90s or so, if I am not mistaken.  Today, the show reflects the aging demographics of the hobby and the lack of excitement/interest/new product offerings from the manufacturers.  

Third, when we first starting taking the kids to York, EDTCA did have policies that were, in my opinion, not family friendly or were out of touch generally.  Strollers were not allowed in the halls, for example, while power chairs were.  Cell phones weren't allowed.  I don't mean to re-litigate those issues here, and they have since been changed and modernized. But, in my opinion, sometimes there is a cost to making changes too late.  To take recent examples from the news, I am sure Bed Bath and Beyond executives now see the need to have better modernized their business to move it to a more internet based presence akin to Amazon.   So good that the lesson is learned, but sometimes the lesson is learned too late.  It is unclear whether that is the case here, but here's hoping that is not the case.

I would not be an advocate of radically changing the structure of the meet, at least not at this point. York has always been a train meet or show for the more serious hobbyists.  The fundamental issue is that the number of such serious hobbyists is declining.  Trying to turn it into a firehouse show or a flea market is not going to make it better, but will likely destroy the aspects of the show that make it a unique meet in the hobby.   Opening it entirely to the public would be ill-advised, because you would likely be canibalizing your own membership and destroying remaining incentive to remain a TCA member.

Finally, in having these discussions, it is good to be open to ideas but I want to note my thanks and respect to the EDTCA members who volunteer their time and energy to run the show.  These things aren't easy to do, and it's always easy to offer criticism as compared to actually acting to change things in a positive direction.  To the credit of the forum members here, I am far from the only member that has made this point.

Have a good day everyone.  

Scott - your idea is the same one I had 15+ years ago. Prior to York meet, I had never heard of a "meet" or train show starting on a workday. Yet, the York meet, and other meets, almost seem a tribal thing.  As for getting the public involved, that is another great idea IMO, but the tribal members may not like that, lol.

I think we need to consider another reason for lower attendance at York. As I watch the news reports on TV with all , well you know all the horrible things that happen to so many. It affects hundreds of thousands of people just in the U.S. The crime can be a domino effect in touching and changing so many lives. Look at the weather that we have had. Snowfalls, rains, floods, mudslides, tornadoes, fires. Homes and lives destroyed. I don't mean to be so depressing, I do want to say that I have been blessed in so many ways. As I watch or read these stories I think, wonder how many TCA members live there. How are they affected by what just happened. When things like these do happen, attending a train meet just might be on the bottom of things they need to do. Just my thoughts. Dave

@wb47 posted:

could someone refresh my memory how the sales tax dodge works?

From what I can remember, years ago the EDTCA, along with the York Chamber of Commerce (I think they were involved, but not 100% certain), sat down with the PA Department of Revenue and cut a deal that non-professional-dealer member to member transactions were considered private transactions and not subject to sales tax.  Tax agents still occasionally visit the dealer hall(s) to check up on things, but they leave the member halls alone, as long as they remain members only.  The reasoning is that the meet brings in a lot of people from out of the area, out of state, and out of the country, and those people are paying gasoline taxes, hotel taxes, sales taxes at local stores and restaurants, and probably a number of other taxes.  The ongoing benefit to the local economy and the state treasury in the other taxes being collected far outweigh what sales tax they could get out of the member hall dealings in the short time it would take to drive everyone away and kill the meet (which would also dry up all the other tax revenue mentioned earlier).

So it isn't a "dodge" at all.  And it is also why a non-member can only attend the full meet one time only as a guest.

Andy

@eddie g posted:

It's amazing how many people chime in who are not TCA members.

Eddie,

We need to ask them why they're not members and then take that onto consideration when proposing changes that would be designed to get more people to join.

They're offering us free, nicely targeted, and pre-focused marketing input.  We can't ignore it.

To do so is to intentionally not listen to the very people you're trying to attract.

Just ignore them and they'll go away?

Mike

@eddie g posted:

It's amazing how many people chime in who are not TCA members.

This thread discusses two groups of people: TCA members, and "the public". I haven't checked everyone's background fully, but I strongly suspect everyone who chimed in falls into one of those two groups.

@taycotrains posted:

In that time period I “urinated” though over 2200.00 dollars in purchases and had the time of my life… just like the previous 68 or so Yorks before this one !

Ooo! Oooo! You always find the coolest stuff, Bob!

Will you be posting pics of your finds in a thread here at OGR? If so, which forum?

Andre

@Ray Lombardo posted:

... why is it the responsibility of the TCA or EDTCA to grow the hobby?  What are the manufacturers (Lionel, MTH, Atlas, others) spending to advertise?    

Isn't it clear that it's everyone's responsibility, manufacturers and hobbyists, TCA and EDTCA, included?

It's difficult, and we see this everyday on this forum and elsewhere, to hold those of us who like this hobby all together because there's always a natural tendency to segregate ourselves by interests, talents, and demographics, whether it's toy vs. scale model, 'O' Gauge vs. 'O' Scale, tinplate vs modern, electronics vs. none, runner vs. collector, tinkerer vs. operator, etc.

I give the OGR Forum moderators here a lot of credit for accomplishing this here, for the most part successfully.

For the sake of the future of the hobby are we all in this together or not?

Should these organizations, and their shows or meets, be inclusive or exclusive?  To be clear, we've heard advocates for both sides here in this thread so far.

Mike

To what degree is "change the days for York" really "my schedule doesn't permit me to get to York until 11 AM Saturday"?

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Isn't it clear that it's everyone's responsibility, manufacturers and hobbyists, TCA and EDTCA, included?

<snip>

I very much support this hobby with my hobby $$ as well as sharing via forum participation (helping others/etc). I also welcome any non model-railroader that happens to visit our home to view my layout IF (after finding out I am a model railroader) they show an interest in seeing it. I answer their questions and give a very brief demonstration of how things work.

However, to throw an all-inclusive blanket over me telling me it's also MY responsibility to grow anything hobby-wise: You're gonna' have a tough (impossible) time selling that to me.

I have enough "must do's" in life. Adding such a responsibility is not going to be among them. Period.

Whose primary responsibility is it to "grow" this hobby? I personally feel it's those that are in this "hobby" to make a profit or have a financial stake in it. Let THEM do the footwork/legwork, and stir interest. THEY'RE the ones that will profit the most. I'm the CONSUMER... they are the FOR PROFIT producers. It's up to them to create product/interest that makes me want to spend my hobby $$.

At my age (71), and given the secondary market flooding, I can sustain myself within the hobby without the need of purchasing anything "latest/greatest". I have almost everything I need in order for my hobby to take me to the end of the line. Those things that I need (supplies/parts/etc), are in strong supply and in current production without needing me to "grow their business" for them. That's their worry, not mine.

My hobby "concern" is to accomplish as much as is practical on my layout, and enjoy it as much as is practical, until that day I must pull my final pin in this life.

Andre

@Hudson J1e posted:

…..@Traindiesel "These days all hobbies are experiencing downward membership and attendance as prices and inflation increase." I agree with this statement but I don't think it is only based upon price. I am in a car club called The Slant Six Club. Dues are $1.33 per month ( paid $16 per year). Let's face it anyone should be able to put aside $1.33 a month if they feel a club has some worth to them. I have made many friends through being a club member and gained much help and information about these cars over the years. To me it is well worth the $16 a year…..

….It just seems to me that people today (not all but most) have no interest in joining a club or association. I think it is sad because they are missing out on great friendships and great information.

Phil, to clarify what I failed to refer to about prices and inflation increasing, I meant to say the prices of the trains not membership costs. People may not want to buy trains because of the costs, so they won’t want to join an organization like the TCA. The cost of membership is minuscule comparatively.

Your last statement above is so true.

Just wondering.  Can we save this thread and repost it after the October 2023 York show?   I’m pretty sure we will see the same thoughts again.  
I’m pretty sure I saw most of these last October as well.  

@Paul Kallus posted:

Scott - your idea is the same one I had 15+ years ago. Prior to York meet, I had never heard of a "meet" or train show starting on a workday. Yet, the York meet, and other meets, almost seem a tribal thing.  As for getting the public involved, that is another great idea IMO, but the tribal members may not like that, lol.

I think it's relevant to observe that the Carlisle car show, which is held at roughly the same times as York (exactly the same weekend this April) and attracts a similar type of hobbyist, runs from Wednesday to Sunday.  That venue sure looked crowded when I drove past it on the turnpike on Friday - people seem to be willing to find the time to attend.

There's some truth to your "tribal" comments - ED is very slow to consider and adopt new ideas. 

@scott.smith posted:

If we are going to get serious about bringing in the public we need to get real about.

Thursday through Saturday is not working. By the time guests arrive Saturday people are packing up to go home. People that have jobs the Thursday, Friday thing doesn't work that well.

Shift the entire event to Friday-Sunday.  Open the meet at noon on Friday for members only. Saturday 9-5 or 9-6. Sunday will be a much shorter event. Honestly I don't like Sunday as an event day because I go to church every Sunday. However I feel this would work better. The public can see more, the membership gets first shot.

What do you guys think?

Scott Smith

Scott,

I am in total agreement with you and have thought the same thing myself. It should be open to the public on Saturday and Sunday. I would say between around 1995 to about 2015, it was great  with all the manufacturers, big dealers, scenery and electronics suppliers. Now it has just turned into a giant fire hall meet. The thing that makes shows like Springfield so great is that they are open to the public. And they did the same with the TCA Ft. Pitt Division shows here in Pittsburgh which are much better than they were years ago.

A few more observations...

I wonder if anyone from ED watches the York posts.  If not, they probably should...

IMO, the critical question for ED is "what should York be?".  If it's going to be a meet primarily for diehard enthusiasts, so be it.  Unfortunately, I think the result of that will be a slow death spiral as the folks who fit that description age out of the organization.  If it's going to be a vehicle for growing the hobby, then changes need to be considered.  There's a lot of parochial thinking in TCA in general and ED in particular.  The efforts to expand the audience for York have been half-hearted at best.

Regarding who is responsible for growing the hobby - expecting manufacturers to do it is misguided - they're in it to make a profit.  Every one of us who enjoys trains should share the responsibility for bringing others into the hobby - if we expect "someone else" to do it, it won't happen.

Lets just leave it the way it is.

@laming posted:

... to throw an all-inclusive blanket over me telling me it's also MY responsibility to grow anything hobby-wise: You're gonna' have a tough (impossible) time selling that to me.

I have enough "must do's" in life. Adding such a responsibility is not going to be among them. Period.

No one's telling you personally that you have to do anything.

But, someone has to do it.  Enough of us have for over 120 years to ensure that our beloved hobby is still here.  Who carries on next?  These are the folks that the TCA needs to attract.

It's not just the manufacturers that make this thing work.  All of us do; no matter how little it all adds up.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

No one's telling you personally that you have to do anything.

But, someone has to do it.  Enough of us have for over 120 years to ensure that our beloved hobby is still here.  Who carries on next?  These are the folks that the TCA needs to attract.

It's not just the manufacturers that make this thing work.  All of us do; no matter how little it all adds up.

Mike

You just did (in your original post), Mike. I was only quoting your own words, which were: "Isn't it clear that it's everyone's responsibility, manufacturers and hobbyists, TCA and EDTCA, included?" (The italicized emphasis on "everyone's" was inserted by you.)

"Everyone" means just that, unless you're using the word as a synecdoche. However, your follow up thoughts you expressed indicates you did not intend to use it as a synecdoche.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with one trying to make an impact upon what one perceives as a need, or even working under the perception that it's their personal responsibility to do so. However, I feel its misguided when that person attempts to coerce others into joining one's "cause" by trying to project it onto others as being "their" responsibility also.

As for "who carries on next"? Those that decide to receive the baton and continue the relay run.

Andre