Terrible way to do business. Just sending an invoice with additional charges is unacceptable. Should have been a phone call explaining the additional costs, then a simple yes or no whether to complete the transaction.
@PRRick posted:Terrible way to do business. Just sending an invoice with additional charges is unacceptable. Should have been a phone call explaining the additional costs, then a simple yes or no whether to complete the transaction.
Well, no one trying to run a business is going to take the days and days and days of time to individually call several hundred customers (probably) and spend who knows how much time chitchatting about shipping charges. Many people don't even answer their phone these days and just wait for a message. A mass email to all customers is the only thing that's reasonable, and perhaps that should have been done.
An automotive podcast I listen to has a monthly interview with the head of a certain restoration parts supplier. They cover a lot of insider type information, and the point he has emphasized over and over is this: You are going to pay the shipping cost one way or another. Anyone offering free shipping is lying to you. Companies only have one source of money: consumers.
So whether they raise the product cost, or raise the shipping cost, or add a surcharge, you have to pay for every aspect of a product. That includes design, material cost, labor, marketing, shipping, overhead, and any profit on top.
Regarding this specific controversy, my guess is the original shipping cost (that everyone is trying to fact-check) included "normal" container shipping, inspection and handling once state-side, and then UPS/FedEx/USPS shipping to you. The container surcharge is most likely the additional cost per item that containers currently cost. This manufacturer chose to be transparent and tell you it was because of container costs. Other manufacturers would most likely have just increased the products' price, and then everyone would be whining about that.
Hey B, this is some thread.........
@PSM posted:Regarding this specific controversy, my guess is the original shipping cost (that everyone is trying to fact-check) included "normal" container shipping, inspection and handling once state-side, and then UPS/FedEx/USPS shipping to you. The container surcharge is most likely the additional cost per item that containers currently cost. This manufacturer chose to be transparent and tell you it was because of container costs. Other manufacturers would most likely have just increased the products' price, and then everyone would be whining about that.
Three pages in and this makes the most sense to me.
Vendor was transparent. Buyer changed his mind. If someone on the waitlist steps in, alls well that ends well.
@H1000 posted:While on the topic of bogus car fees another one that burns me is "Shop Supplies" from the mechanic. 😠
Probably not bogus... The shop rags aren't free, the little squirt of brakleen isn't free, the quarter tube of grease isn't free, the paper floor covers aren't free, and the Fast Orange soap after he's done isn't free.
@kanawha posted:Shipping costs are definitely getting out of hand. I received a double A unit set from this vendor in 2019 with $60 for shipping. Earlier this year I received an engine from the same vendor with $75 for shipping and no container surcharge. I just received an order confirmation for a passenger set with a very much higher amount for shipping and the $30 container surcharge. I tend to believe he has been trying to hold the line on shipping costs by absorbing some of those costs and its just gotten to the point he can't do that any more. No shenanigans just the state of inflation today. A year ago I shipped a diecast loco (large, heavy package) from Va to Montana via UPS and the cost was about $90.
I don't like the high cost for shipping the passenger set but its something unique that no other importer is going to do correctly so I have no intention of cancelling the order. If anything the increased cost of any new train item plus the increasing shipping costs is going to limit what I purchase in the future.
Ken
Mark Spadaro turned me on to Pirate Ship for reduced shipping costs.
Thanks Mark,
John
I was telling my brother about this topic, explaining about how much Ben's purchase weighs in comparison to the heavy steam engines. While he is not a train guy, he does know the difference between steam, diesel, and electric. I told him the engine price, he said, "Not a steam engine then?" I told him it was a diesel, for the price it could have been a small steam engine, which would only weigh just a bit more. Explained how much heavier something like a Big Boy is in comparison and that would increase the cost, but definitely not $90 for shipping.
We talk about how other shipping companies are pushing surcharges onto companies, but this is more about the dimensions of the package plus the weight, which only something like a steel bridge in the hobby would compare on that.
He agrees that the cost for something small as this diesel engine is nuts, he'd leave it too.
I know we all buy out trains for different reasons, have different situations that we are in, but as Ben stated, we want to pay what is fair. Anyone that thinks that is not what is being discussed here, you must have missed something. We know shipping is a cost that we do have to deal with, but we don't have to accept it. I know I had looked at something online that I was interested, think some freight cars. Well, I walked away because I thought I'd save the shipping cost and try and get it at my local train store. I was glad I did because my store just happen to have this item in stock, even though it was a few years old. While this is freight I'm talking about, and not an engine, it is still the same with the shipping cost, though my cost was probably reasonable(was over 4 years ago). I got lucky it was still available at the store.
@GregM posted:Worst thing about this thread is I am old enough to remember that “NATTERING NABOBS OF NEGATIVISM” is a quote from Vice President Spiro Agnew.
21st Century Schizoid Man
@Andrew B. posted:Probably not bogus... The shop rags aren't free, the little squirt of brakleen isn't free, the quarter tube of grease isn't free, the paper floor covers aren't free, and the Fast Orange soap after he's done isn't free.
That should all be included in "labor charges", since we know they're not paying the mechanic over $80 an hour...
@Andrew B. posted:Probably not bogus... The shop rags aren't free, the little squirt of brakleen isn't free, the quarter tube of grease isn't free, the paper floor covers aren't free, and the Fast Orange soap after he's done isn't free.
The left trailer light on my pickup quit working so i took it to the dealership after finding out that it uses a module and not fuses to control that circuit. I watched a tech put a paper floor mat in it, drive it into the shop, plug a computer into it and reprogram a module. About 8 minutes later he was done and brought it out with the left trailer light now working.
They were up front about the minimum shop rate but $75 for shop supplies!??! Those paper floor mats must be expensive. If they cost that much then ask before using one, I could care less if my floor mat gets dirty in a farm truck.
Last summer we had to rebuild a transmission in a semi at the farm, we didnt even use close to $10 in shop supplies. A tube of grease and 3 gallons of transmission fluid are billable line items, not shop supplies. A dozen paper towels and 3 squirts of orange clean doesn't constitute the right to fleece a customer. What next, the magazine subscription in the service center waiting room is a shop supply?
Maybe i should surcharge shop supplies for my train repairs... solder, grease, oil, smoke fluid and electricity to test run ain't free either. Perhaps I'll charge a bit less a not wash my hands between projects...
@Magicland posted:That should all be included in "labor charges", since we know they're not paying the mechanic over $80 an hour...
This kind of response just shows a total lack of thought or knowledge regarding what is involved in running any kind of business. I don't have a mechanic shop, but am in a related automotive business. After accounting for wages and other expenses, our margin hovers around 10%. From that 10%, we have to pay ourselves, reinvest in the business to ensure its continued health, and maintain a large enough reserve that we can maintain the business if an economic downturn or some other calamity occur. Without some volume, there would be no way to operate. Without businesses like ours being in operation, a lot more people would be bicycling to work.
For starters, the mechanic is probably making between $25 and $30 of the rate, more if he has his ASE certs, is a master mechanic, or serves to manage the rest of the crew in the shop. The company is also chipping in each week on his Medicare and Social Security, beyond what is deducted from his paycheck. And they may possibly be paying benefits. The required workman's comp coverage for mechanics is around $1.75 per $100 of compensation, too. Plus, there's regular insurance costs, plus garage-keepers insurance and umbrella policies to ensure, should something happen, your car is covered as well. There's property taxes. There's ever-increasing utility charges. Doing oil changes? Then you're paying an environmental service to come weekly or monthly to dispose of the used oil. Probably also paying them to take used coolant. And also any solvent-based cleaners. Oh, the diagnostic program and tablets to determine what's wrong with your vehicle, that's $40,000 (for a multi-OEM tool, that's a real number) from Snap-On. The estimating program, that's ~$5,000 annually. The Quickbooks, a grand or so a year. The mechanic might be buying his tools, but he didn't buy the ~$8,000 Ingersoll-Rand compressor that's turning his air gun. He didn't buy the ~$5,000 lift that the car he's servicing is on. Those compressors and lifts, they have to be services regularly, by a guy charging ~$100/hour. There's probably a secretary or two in the office, and the shop doesn't get to bill separately for that person, so it also comes out of the labor rate. When that alternator they just installed fails in a week due to poor quality control at the factory, the manufacturer sure warranties the part, but the labor, that's eaten by the shop. That accountant that makes sure everything is right for the IRS, he's a few thousand a year. The lawyer for when things go bad- he's a lot more than $85/hour, and he's adding a few surcharges and line items himself.
Get past all those and a hundred other expenses, and the guy that stuck his neck out to start a business, to take on the risk of hiring, putting his name on the work, building a (hopefully) positive reputation, who takes the flak when things go bad, he deserves to make something, too. So, if he adds $5 or $15 to a job for "shop supplies," I'd probably not complain. He could just bump the hourly labor $5-$10, but that isn't too fair on a 5 hour job, is it?
@bluelinec4 posted:Gerry What the heck is a NABOB Do you have to be a Phillie fan to know? LOL
Interesting question. The phrase became famous because Spiro Agnew (1st VP under Nixon) used it to disparage the portion of the press which attacked him. It was a catchy phrase. I never thought about what Nabob meant. It is defined as "a conspicuously wealthy man deriving his fortune in the east, especially in India during the 18th century with the privately held East India Company". Probably better to be a Spiro Agnew fan than a Phillies fan to know, and there may be about the same number of both.
Gerry
@Magicland posted:That should all be included in "labor charges", since we know they're not paying the mechanic over $80 an hour...
I gotta agree with Andrew B. on this one, …..I do run a garage, and your reply shows a complete disconnect from reality …..if you don’t know, don’t open your mouth,….just nod, smile, and pretend you know what’s going on……🙄
Pat
@gmorlitz posted:... I never thought about what Nabob meant. It is defined as "a conspicuously wealthy man deriving his fortune in the east, especially in India during the 18th century with the privately held East India Company". ...
Hey! That's me! I still have all of my East India company stock 
One of the things to bear in mind is these are unusual (okay crazy) times, and companies are trying to adjust the way consumers are. The supply chain being all messed up, the lack/cost of containers, and then general inflation has meant it is hard to know what something will be. In the past, a vendor would know what it would cost to ship within a certain percent, that is no longer true. There is trading in options and futures on freight hauling, and prices on those derivatives is all over the place, it is an indication of what is going on there. And it is especially bad now with trains where so much of it is BTO, you order something, they estimate shipping cost, but when the thing ships, that price is no longer realistic. Ben had every right to cancel his order, when we buy something we as consumers look at the total cost and decide whether we can afford that when you factor in taxes and shipping and the like. Our budget doesn't care about the price of the engine, it cares what is coming out of our pockets, pure and simple.
And we have gotten used to a world where things like shipping weren't necessarily a factor. Amazon and other big online retailers made free shipping seem like it was free, you can order from Amazon and with prime get something in a couple of days with free shipping. People assume that means shipping is cheap, then find out they try to ship something with 2 day delivery and it is sticker shock. One year i ordered an ipod from Apple like on December 22nd, it came from China and I got it December 24th, free shipping.....
Companies were eating the shipping cost because with large volume they could make it up elsewhere to make their profit margin), these days it has gotten to the point they can't, especially when from shipment to shipment they may not know.
And we see this all over. Gas stations that once charged same price for cash or credit aren't, and the surcharge for credit cards are being passed on , same with restaurants. This is especially painful in an economy that has stores that literally won't accept cash; go to a football stadium and the concessions in many of them don't accept cash. I noticed most of the cashless places don't charge the surcharge, but you can bet they will raise prices to reflect that cost (with stadium concessions, if they do no one will know; the concession prices are already so out of whack with reality, that it people won't notice it).
In terms of auto dealers and shop fees for materials, in some ways it was like free shipping, things that once were 'assumed costs' have now been itemized. Some things they always billed for, like the cost to dispose of waste oil (yeah, uncle A'ls gas station didn't, but makes you wonder what Uncle Al did with the oil...) or old tires. But now they are accounting for everything, including things like hand soap that the mechanics use, shop towels and the like. They were once factored into 'fixed costs', these days they aren't.
Car dealers make most of their money on service, and yes, there is a lot of overcharge there. As someone pointed out, the mechanic they bill at 100/hr (my area), isn't making anywhere near that, even if you figure in cost of benefits, ss, etc (generally benefits run roughly 20% more of the base salary, depending). Dealers have fixed costs, like insurance, electricity and heating/cooling, the facilities (lifts, compressors, the tools the mechanics don't own). They also make a lot on the parts, they can be almost double what a third party place selling OEM factory parts will get for it, let alone what a third party part would cost). Dealers also get shorn on warrantee work, the company pays for the parts, but if they pay for the labor, it is a tiny fraction of what the cost to the dealer is to do the service.
I use this to point out that what Ben saw with the container surcharge is much like the auto industry or credit cards or the like, that businesses are no longer willing to eat these costs, they are passing them on. The problem with something like Ben's example is they had the cost of shipping the product here to the US in the cost of the product and/or in the total shipping cost; by the time it was shipped to the US, that cost had soared beyond what they could absorb. They can't change the price of the item to reflect this,since that was agreed upon, and if they added to the shipping Ben or any of us would say "What? 90 bucks to ship an engine from X to Y?"...so they chose to put a surcharge on it and be transparent. Personally with BTO and the like, the vendors better start being up front with customers that due to the issues with global shipping the cost of shipping may end up accruing surcharges and the like so there isn't sticker shock like Ben experienced. I don't think the vendor is price gouging, knowing what I know of the supply chain and the costs of international shipping (btw, it isn't just containers; I have a friend that works in Maritime insurance, the prices underwriters are charging for shipping insurance for international shipping has skyrocketed as well), I think it is they are finally passing on rising costs to us, the consumer.
@bigkid posted:One of the things to bear in mind is these are unusual (okay crazy) times, and companies are trying to adjust the way consumers are. The supply chain being all messed up, the lack/cost of containers, and then general inflation has meant it is hard to know what something will be. In the past, a vendor would know what it would cost to ship within a certain percent, that is no longer true. There is trading in options and futures on freight hauling, and prices on those derivatives is all over the place, it is an indication of what is going on there. And it is especially bad now with trains where so much of it is BTO, you order something, they estimate shipping cost, but when the thing ships, that price is no longer realistic. Ben had every right to cancel his order, when we buy something we as consumers look at the total cost and decide whether we can afford that when you factor in taxes and shipping and the like. Our budget doesn't care about the price of the engine, it cares what is coming out of our pockets, pure and simple.
And we have gotten used to a world where things like shipping weren't necessarily a factor. Amazon and other big online retailers made free shipping seem like it was free, you can order from Amazon and with prime get something in a couple of days with free shipping. People assume that means shipping is cheap, then find out they try to ship something with 2 day delivery and it is sticker shock. One year i ordered an ipod from Apple like on December 22nd, it came from China and I got it December 24th, free shipping.....
Companies were eating the shipping cost because with large volume they could make it up elsewhere to make their profit margin), these days it has gotten to the point they can't, especially when from shipment to shipment they may not know.
And we see this all over. Gas stations that once charged same price for cash or credit aren't, and the surcharge for credit cards are being passed on , same with restaurants. This is especially painful in an economy that has stores that literally won't accept cash; go to a football stadium and the concessions in many of them don't accept cash. I noticed most of the cashless places don't charge the surcharge, but you can bet they will raise prices to reflect that cost (with stadium concessions, if they do no one will know; the concession prices are already so out of whack with reality, that it people won't notice it).
In terms of auto dealers and shop fees for materials, in some ways it was like free shipping, things that once were 'assumed costs' have now been itemized. Some things they always billed for, like the cost to dispose of waste oil (yeah, uncle A'ls gas station didn't, but makes you wonder what Uncle Al did with the oil...) or old tires. But now they are accounting for everything, including things like hand soap that the mechanics use, shop towels and the like. They were once factored into 'fixed costs', these days they aren't.
Car dealers make most of their money on service, and yes, there is a lot of overcharge there. As someone pointed out, the mechanic they bill at 100/hr (my area), isn't making anywhere near that, even if you figure in cost of benefits, ss, etc (generally benefits run roughly 20% more of the base salary, depending). Dealers have fixed costs, like insurance, electricity and heating/cooling, the facilities (lifts, compressors, the tools the mechanics don't own). They also make a lot on the parts, they can be almost double what a third party place selling OEM factory parts will get for it, let alone what a third party part would cost). Dealers also get shorn on warrantee work, the company pays for the parts, but if they pay for the labor, it is a tiny fraction of what the cost to the dealer is to do the service.
I use this to point out that what Ben saw with the container surcharge is much like the auto industry or credit cards or the like, that businesses are no longer willing to eat these costs, they are passing them on. The problem with something like Ben's example is they had the cost of shipping the product here to the US in the cost of the product and/or in the total shipping cost; by the time it was shipped to the US, that cost had soared beyond what they could absorb. They can't change the price of the item to reflect this,since that was agreed upon, and if they added to the shipping Ben or any of us would say "What? 90 bucks to ship an engine from X to Y?"...so they chose to put a surcharge on it and be transparent. Personally with BTO and the like, the vendors better start being up front with customers that due to the issues with global shipping the cost of shipping may end up accruing surcharges and the like so there isn't sticker shock like Ben experienced. I don't think the vendor is price gouging, knowing what I know of the supply chain and the costs of international shipping (btw, it isn't just containers; I have a friend that works in Maritime insurance, the prices underwriters are charging for shipping insurance for international shipping has skyrocketed as well), I think it is they are finally passing on rising costs to us, the consumer.
Car dealers make most of their money on service, and yes, there is a lot of overcharge there. As someone pointed out, the mechanic they bill at 100/hr (my area), isn't making anywhere near that, even if you figure in cost of benefits, ss, etc (generally benefits run roughly 20% more of the base salary, depending). Dealers have fixed costs, like insurance, electricity and heating/cooling, the facilities (lifts, compressors, the tools the mechanics don't own). They also make a lot on the parts, they can be almost double what a third party place selling OEM factory parts will get for it, let alone what a third party part would cost). Dealers also get shorn on warrantee work, the company pays for the parts, but if they pay for the labor, it is a tiny fraction of what the cost to the dealer is to do the service.
dealership shops are the red headed step child, ….unless they bring in a boat load of cash cow work, …usually not the case in a dealership,….I cut my teeth in the cut throat dealership world, …warranty work pays squat….. the mfr. dictates how long it’s gonna take, and what parts they are and aren’t gonna give you to facilitate a warranty repair…any General manager worth his salt knows the shop is drain and a burden, and does his darndest to minimize that ……when I went over to engineering, and traveled to shops for training, there were some shops that actively sought cash work, but most didn’t bother,…..they had skeleton crews like zombies, cause all they could get was 1/3 of the “ should be hours” vs. what the mfr. says you’re gonna get ……flat rate ain’t no fun when you’re hungry ……you guys need to know how it works before y’all go rooting off like ya know….
Pat
"dealership shops are the red headed step child" but as I have told my dealer of 30 years. the service group is the reason why I buy my cars from you. "where everyone knows your name"
@bptBill posted:"dealership shops are the red headed step child" but as I have told my dealer of 30 years. the service group is the reason why I buy my cars from you. "where everyone knows your name"
Yes, because you’re on the outside looking in,….on the inside, it’s a dog eat dog world, and they’re all wearing milkbone underwear…..
we’re really drifting off course, here, that’s all I got to say about that …….( Forrest Gump)
Pat
@harmonyards posted:it’s a dog eat dog world, and they’re all wearing milkbone underwear…..
Pat
Norm!
@Frank Mulligan posted:21st Century Schizoid Man
Death seed blind man's greed
Poets' starving children bleed
Nothing he's got he really needs
Twenty first century schizoid man
About sums up this hobby in many ways. Lol.
Among my favorite bands of all time. Robert Fripp's current speaking tour of "That Awful Man and his Manager" is sounding quite interesting.
@harmonyards posted:I gotta agree with Andrew B. on this one, …..I do run a garage, and your reply shows a complete disconnect from reality …..if you don’t know, don’t open your mouth,….just nod, smile, and pretend you know what’s going on……🙄
Pat
So a flat rate $75 shop supply charge is okay for a paper floor mat in a truck that has just as much dirt on the floor as a garden. I'll pay for supplies used within reason, but a squirt of brake cleaner and a few pumps of pumice don't allow you to charge for the entire can of brake clean and new bottle of pumice. In my situation posted before, the shop supply cost exceeded the minimum 30 minute shop rate to repair my vehicle which was only $40. Explain to me how I didn't get screwed by paying $75 for a paper floor mat on an 8 minute $40 repair...
My regular mechanic will line item bill rounded to the nearest half quart on bulk fluids. He doesn't charge for shop supplies like brake cleaner, paper towels, hand cleaner, a few pumps from a grease gun, electricity, compressed air from the air compressor, or the magazine I read while sitting in his waiting room. Heck, he doesn't even charge for the Wi-Fi access.
I take issue with anyone who flat rates something non-descriptive like "shop supplies" at a high rate even though none were used.
@H1000 posted:So a flat rate $75 shop supply charge is okay for a paper floor mat in a truck that has just as much dirt on the floor as a garden. I'll pay for supplies used within reason, but a squirt of brake cleaner and a few pumps of pumice don't allow you to charge for the entire can of brake clean and new bottle of pumice. In my situation posted before, the shop supply cost exceeded the minimum 30 minute shop rate to repair my vehicle which was only $40. Explain to me how I didn't get screwed by paying $75 for a paper floor mat on an 8 minute $40 repair...
My regular mechanic will line item bill rounded to the nearest half quart on bulk fluids. He doesn't charge for shop supplies like brake cleaner, paper towels, hand cleaner, a few pumps from a grease gun, electricity, compressed air from the air compressor, or the magazine I read while sitting in his waiting room. Heck, he doesn't even charge for the Wi-Fi access.
I take issue with anyone who flat rates something non-descriptive like "shop supplies" at a high rate even though none were used.
I must admit, I’ve gotten off course too, and this will be the last of it, ….so after this, get yourself a block of cheese to go with your whine …….yes, ….to answer your question, …cause even if you had four foot of mud on the floor of your truck, it sounds like you’d be the first one looking for that shop to compensate you if the tech accidentally put a microscopic bead of grease in that dirt,…..so yeah, you got a floor mat, …and here’s the easiest solution, …..don’t go back if you didn’t like the service ….
Pat
@harmonyards posted:I must admit, I’ve gotten off course too, and this will be the last of it, ….so after this, get yourself a block of cheese to go with your whine …….yes, ….to answer your question, …cause even if you had four foot of mud on the floor of your truck, it sounds like you’d be the first one looking for that shop to compensate you if the tech accidentally put a microscopic bead of grease in that dirt,…..so yeah, you got a floor mat, …and here’s the easiest solution, …..don’t go back if you didn’t like the service ….
Pat
SO what did he do to protect the seat and steering wheel from grease transfer? As I stated earlier I could care less how clean or dirty this particular vehicle is kept it's a farm truck and it's pretty obvious too, only a moron who forces you to buy $75 paper mats would put one in. Never mind the rust and the dents, but heaven forbid we get some more dirt or some grease on the already dirt covered floor.
They stated it's policy to charge everyone for shop supplies on every invoice weather they get used or not. They were not up front about this charge (but had no problem telling me about the minimum shop rate) and slipped it in after the work was done and expected it to be paid. A simple repair like a new turn signal bulb - $4, labor - $40, Shop supplies (none used) - $75... what a rip off and you have no reasonable explanation other than just pay it and don't whine. I'm not saying that all shops operate this way but there needs to be at least some reasonable justification for the amount being charged. I would have been more than willing to go elsewhere had I known beforehand that I'd be paying excessive shop supply fees for nothing.
When "Shop Supplies" charges vary widely among the automotive service industry from reasonable to excessive padding the bill, it tends to get get a bad rap. In my case, they were not up front because they knew it was unreasonable and just another way to sucker an extra $75 for nothing.
Much like the OP, if you want to charge for these types of things that's fine, BUT BE UP FRONT ABOUT ADDITIONAL FEES BEFORE AN ORDER IS PLACE OR SERVICE IS PERFORMED. Don't sneak them in at the end of a transaction.
@H1000 posted:only a moron who forces you to buy $75 paper mats would put one in.
One party was the beneficiary in that exchange, and I don't think he is the one who could be termed a moron 
I've seen literally thousands of dealership and independent shop invoices because of what I do. The absolute highest I have EVER seen "shop supplies" was $25 at an independent diesel mechanic. The average is $15. I am not saying your experience didn't occur, but I have never seen anything approaching what you say you were charged in almost two decades.
Sometimes the billed item and the billed charge aren't aligned on the invoices, so it looks like a charge is for a different line-item on the invoice. Maybe there was some confusion in that regard. But, never, ever, reviewing invoices from Peterbilt and Kenworth, on down to BMW and Mercedes, and continuing to Honda and Kia, have I seen a "shop supplies" charge above $25.
@Andrew B. posted:One party was the beneficiary in that exchange, and I don't think he is the one who could be termed a moron
I've seen literally thousands of dealership and independent shop invoices because of what I do. The absolute highest I have EVER seen "shop supplies" was $25 at an independent diesel mechanic. The average is $15. I am not saying your experience didn't occur, but I have never seen anything approaching what you say you were charged in almost two decades.
Sometimes the billed item and the billed charge aren't aligned on the invoices, so it looks like a charge is for a different line-item on the invoice. Maybe there was some confusion in that regard. But, never, ever, reviewing invoices from Peterbilt and Kenworth, on down to BMW and Mercedes, and continuing to Honda and Kia, have I seen a "shop supplies" charge above $25.
Andrew, your right. My situation above is a one-off experience and is not typical. I know my blood boiled at that time and I'm just reliving it a bit too passionately now. That dealership had me over a barrel, I was about 300 miles from home, got stopped by the DOT and that light had to be fixed now, not at my earliest convenience. We have all sorts of service performed by Deere & CAT at our farm and the shop supplies are billed per job. I'm not sure what their formula is but I think highest I've ever seen is $20 and that was on a job that did require numerous amounts of supplies and I had no problem with that.
I guess my final thought is if you are going to put charges at the end of bill that some may see as inflating the bill, explain that before you sell a product or perform a service.
And no hard feelings or disrespect to you or @harmonyards, my off the rail discussion has gone on long enough. Thanks & sorry for letting me bend your ears for someone else's mistake...
So the woman whose TV went on the blink called the repairman who came over and examined the back of the TV and unscrewed a small panel which had over 50 chips inside. He then pulled out a small chip and went outside to his truck and got a replacement, which he promptly inserted and screwed the small panel back in. The TV fired right up and the whole procedure took less than 10 minutes.
He then handed the woman an Invoice for $125.00.
"That's outrageous", she said. "I want an itemized bill".
The repairman came back a few minutes later with an itemized bill, which stated,
"Replacement Panel Chip - $ 5.00
Knowing which chip to replace - $ 120.00
TOTAL $ 125.00 "
@Richie C. posted:"Replacement Panel Chip - $ 5.00
Knowing which chip to replace - $ 120.00
TOTAL $ 125.00 "
Could have been worse:
"Replacement Panel Chip - $ 5.00
Knowing which chip to replace - $ 120.00
Handling Fee - $30.00
Destination Charge - $60.00
Container Fee (for the chip) - $30.00
TOTAL $ 245 .00
John
Aw shucks, too late. Forgot the "processing fee" 
The 75 bucks for shop materials is ridiculous unless you had something like I did, where rodents got under the hood and wreaked havoc of a car...(it was disgusting).......that was a staggeringly big job. My guess is they knew they had you over a barrel and took advantage of it, shop charges, disposal fees, etc are using pretty small.
In defense of vendors or businesses charging surcharges, I would be upset if I ordered something a vendor had in stock, they processed the order, calculated shipping, and then like 2 days later came back and said "Oh, sorry, the price is now 20 bucks more, and shipping is now 20% more"..that would get me angry, because it either means when I ordered they hadn't updated their website or whatever to reflect the new cost, or they were jacking up the price to take advantage.
On the other hand with the BTO and long lag to get trains, things do change, I could understand this happening. I suspect the business ate the increase as long as they could but found eventually they couldn't any more. I doubt this is price gouging, it sounds more like the price went up enough to have them pass it along. Vendors may need to be upfront that due to the rapid increase in shipping costs surcharges when the item actually ships may be necessary. It isn't a good situation, the customer who ordered it may have budgeted for X total cost then suddenly find out they are paying a lot more, the vendor might end up with an engine that has been built that the customer no longer wants. To be honest it would be a pretty silly vendor to put surcharges on orders like this to 'try and gouge the customer', no one that wants to stay in business long would do that (ebay hucksters or Amazon 'cheap price' vendors notwithstanding).
Let's just hope this craziness ends soon (I know, been asking that now for a long, long time).
I don't think Ben would mind that I now close this thread since many of you can't stay on topic....too many posts have nothing to do with trains....
