consist

Sinn:

Other than regs prohibiting certain classes of hazardous materials from being immediately behind the locomotives in a train, there are no other rules governing the placement of cars in a train of which I am aware.

That said, I recollect that after Southern Pacific suffered a "stringline" type derailment in California about 20 years ago, they implemented some rules regarding the placement of centerbeam and, I believe, bulkhead flats in trains.  I don't know if Union Pacific has continued that practice since taking over SP.

Curt

When I build an o gauge train, it makes sense to me to put any open top hoppers behind certain cars like a poultry car or car carrier with cargo that could be damaged by a bouncing piece of coal or rock.  But that is just how I do it In my make believe train world.

The real cause of that string-lining derailment was simply way too much tonnage. After the D&RGW purchased the SP, the "new management" couldn't understand why the SP was operating such short, low tonnage trains eastbound (compass North) out of Dunsmuir, Calif. ascending the 2.2% grade up and around Cantera Loop, so they FORCED that Division Supt. to increase the tonnage & train length.

 

It didn't take long to dump a train due to string-lining, into the Sacramento River, and one tank car of some sort of chemical ruptured.

 

They no longer operate big long trains on that grade any more!

During the days of Steam Locomotives & the Caboose, the least valuable carrier car was situated behind the tender in case of a locomotive explosion. Flats or gondolas  preceded the Caboose to give the crew a better/less obstructed view of what was happening ahead of them in the consist.

 

Dave

Sure don't know where you heard THAT. May I suggest that you look at LOTS of photos of freight train make-up from the steam days. Such as the solid reefer blocks on the SP, UP, GN, NP, WP, D&RGW, and CB&Q for some examples.

 

Besides, the yard masters certainly didn't have the time nor the resources to move cars around within freight trains just based on commodity; destination was much more key to train make-up. 

Hot Water,

My information came from a friend of mine who was an Engineer for GN during the 40's & 50's.  

Dave

If the train was a "local" with pickups and setouts to do along the route, the train would be built so as to minimize the amount of en-route switching. Cars would be placed in the train in the order of the customers they had to switch along the line of road.

 

All trains are "blocked" (that's the term used to descibe the order in which the train was bullt) with all cars for a given customer placed together in the train.

 

No consideration was given for wind resistance...that's not a factor at all.

 

With regard to the comments about the flats placed directly ahead of the caboose and the least valuable car ahead of the caboose, I'm not aware of ANY railroad that built trains like that. Trains are built to maximize efficiency along the line of road...period.

I have to allow that my GN Steam Engineer friend might have been telling me a story

about consist make ups on long haul freight trains.

 

It had slipped my mind that Old Time Railroader's, at times fell somewhere between Fishermen & Guides at being B.S. Artists...

FWIW, Here's a bit of info on hazmat cars and their placement. The guy doing the videos is currently an engineer for CSX. There are a couple more on his youtube channel about engine placement and maybe a few other topics from the real railroad.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF0DjmXedFM 

 

If I'm right, that's the derailment that led to the 4449 PR trips out of Redding, right?

Kevin

You are 100% correct. The President of SP, Mr. Mike Mohan, personally requested we operate those "PR/Media" trips un and down the Sacramento River Canyon in order to actually show the members of the Media that the chemical spill didn't "kill everything for five miles either side of the river, all the way ti the Pacific Ocean.". In fact, the vast majority of the owners of all the fishing camps along the river, stated that the chemical spill was the BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE RIVER! We were all flabbergasted, until they explained that the chemical (some sort of bug spray liquid) would up killing all the "sucker fish" that had progressed up-stream out of Lake Shasta, and they had been eating all the eggs of the game fish (trout). Within a few weeks the Southern Pacific had restocked the entire Sacramento River Canyon, and the sport fishing was better than ever within a year.

 

Just curious, how was the reception to the trips?  The idea of using steam for PR always seems to be a good idea and certainly attention grabbing, but other than this trip, the 4449 Siskiyou special and the UP Frontier Days runs, it doesn't seem to happen all that often.  What was the reception at the time to the runs?

Kevin

The PR/Media trips came off extremely well, with lots of advantages for all parties, the community businesses, the town residents, and of course the press. Without the passenger train, none of the people could actually see first had that, "everything wasn't dead". Members of the press had a chance to talk face-to-face with the owners of the affected fishing camps, management representatives from the SP (yes, even the President and his executive staff were present), and the rest of the business owners in the surround area. Everybody thought that the SP got a much larger turn-out as a result of the special "press viewing train" and the fact that SP4449 was also pulling the "special" was icing on the cake.

 

Plus, our group didn't charge the SP any money. The SP only had to cover the operating expenses and crew expenses for the whole operation. The Friends of SP4449 made a trade with President Mike Mohan, that we would do what ever they wanted/needed, if we would be allowed to operate to the following year's NRHS National Convention, in San Jose, Calif. at now charge. Heck of a trade!  

Sounds like it worked out well for everyone involved.  That's really where the benefit really pays off for the railroad moreso than the railfan spectaculars.

Kevin

Back to the train consist question. Typically loads are placed ahead of empties. As others have mentioned cars are grouped together depending on destination. That's why you'll see "blocks" of certain commodities such coal, propane, lumber and plastic.

 

Hazardous cars will be placed away from the engine, most desirably in the middle of a train. Hazardous cars of the flammable/explosive variety will also be kept away from an ignition source such as the mechanical end of a reefer or any load that could shift and puncture the hazardous car. Chemicals that don't play well when mixed (such as fertilizer and diesel fuel) are purposefully kept separate too.

As a final note - and this came from a long time DL&W conductor - cattle cars would, if at all possible, be placed away from the caboose due to the stink. Of course that's all history now.

There are many "train make up" rules we have to follow on mountain grade territory (Cajon Pass in Southern CA), along with the basic train make rules like Hazmat placement, high/wide placement, long/short car, open top gondolas and shiftable load cars (non bulkhead flat cars).  

 

There are also a few "train make up" rules for DP/Helper trains.

 

If we get a high wind advisory, the train is usually restricted to a certain speed, and baretable trains with empty trailers are usually parked somewhere. We do NOT have any "train make up" rules that relate to wind. 

Thanks for the replies.  Dave Crosby and Laidoffsick, you seem to be saying the same thing.  Los, any idea if their is any documentation outlining the reasoning behind the high/wide, long/short etc generally available, would love to read it to satisfy my curiousity?  Would a google search of 'train make up' provide anything other than how to apply eye shadow and lipstick?

Train consist makeup is giving me some useful information on google, searching train makeup only useful if I ever decide to become a drag queen.  Again, thanks for the replies.

cheers

So what did you learn on your search?  Besides how to apply mascara.  I don't even know what mascara is.   I will post a photo of how I build a consist in my o gauge world tomorrow.  I got rules.

So what did you learn on your search?  Besides how to apply mascara.  I don't even know what mascara is.   I will post a photo of how I build a consist in my o gauge world tomorrow.  I got rules.

Sinn, do a search for "Safety and general conduct rules".  Or Norfolk Southern Safety rules.  Don't know if that will answer your question but there are a lot of interesting rules and regs you might find cool to know.  Somewhere in there you may find a lead to searching for HazMat rules.  I'm not sure if car location relating to engine is in that book or not.  It's been a long time since I read that stuff so I can't tell you exactly where to look for anything in particular.  Check the index.

 

Rick