Convert a WBB E7 AA set to 2 rail

I have converted several sets of Williams E-7 locos to 2 rail operation but my methods utilize the existing drive components with new NWSL wheels machined to fit the existing axles and insulated for 2 rail.  The Williams axles are an odd size close to a No. 17 drill.

I just finished converting three WIlliams scale GG-1 locos to 2 rail.  That job requires machining the sintered iron quill driver castings andi installing scale tires insulated on one side for 2 rail. All of the Williams mechanisms I have reworked for others have been good runners once converted despite being "China Drives".

I don't think it would be easy to install a set of 2 rail trucks from another manufacturer onto the stamped metal Williams frame with the large cutouts for the motor mounts.

If you hae access to a decent metal lathe the job is not that hard to do.

Joe Foehrkolb

hi joe,

would you say this is a cost effective wise move, I was thinking of getting the power upgrade kit to have both powered to pull 11 golden gate heavyweight cars.

and thanks for the reply.

Hi to all,

I convert a dummy E-7 into a powered one (3rails) using P&D transmissions parts.

Now I am going to upgrade using NWSL wheels to 2 rails.

here some pictures.

Brass insert for the new wheel set.

Andre.

Nice work there, Andre! 

Does that center axle with the gear actually engage with anything?

Martin!

No, is just an old wheel removed due a crack in the gear, so I used as a "C" actually the gear was removed.

Andre.

DL&W Pete.

Andre has come up with another method of converting these trucks that looks pretty good to me.  He does lose one powered wheel set on each truck in the process.  I would expect he powers this set up with a single horizontal motor mounted between the trucks.   The Williams trucks do have all wheels powered if I remember correctly. Two of these uE-7 nits, both powered with modified original drives should easily pull your train, especially if you add some weight in the empty fuel tank castings.  Either method will require some machine work as I see Andre has installed brass bearings in his truck sideframes to support the Weaver axles. 

I know the Weaver drives are popular but I have replaced many split axle gears on these drives and although I believe I have come up with a fix for the gears splitting (time will tell), the cracking axle gear is a flaw in an otherwise very nice drive.  I believe the problem is caused by the delrin gears shrinking with age around the steel axle.  I have a set of RS3 units that sat in the engine house for a long time (a couple of years) and several of the gears were cracked when I pulled the engines out to run them.  They did not split in operation, just sitting still.

Joe Foehrkolb

chris,

lackawanna never had E7 engines, only E8's. but these williams shells can be used for E7 or E8, and I am not going to hold my breath for MTH to reissue a set in correct road #'s in their premier line for 2 rail.

joe,

do you do these conversion for other people, as I would want to keep the williams motors and drive. If I did decide to do this conversion, $150 for the AA set, another $100 for the power kit, $5 to strip the paint from the shell, $10 for 2 cans of paint, 4 couplers $15. I would have about $300 invested so far, how much would it cost to change the wheelsets. this still looks to be cheaper than $700-800 for a E8 set from mth.

Correct I installed a 24 volt high torque motor.

the old weaver gears cracked after few years but you can use the NWSL that are machined using aged delrin, brass bushing and better look wheels.

Andre.

another source for replacement gears for the Weaver drive is from Sterling Instruments. very high quality and a vast selection. I've purchased quite a number of gears from them for replacements.

Thanks, Andre!

Very nice AG! Thanks for posting your conversion.What is the source for the brass wheel inserts?
I have three of the brass inserts left over from a CLW kit that I purchased from a guy at a train show several years ago. I called P&D and talked to Pat but he said he didn't have any. He did have some small 3/16" flanged roller bearings that are used on Weaver locos with the delrin truck sideframes.

I'm getting some P&D/Weaver drive parts to convert some Atlas dummy units into powered units.

I like your custom truck bolster too! Again, nice work!

Travis

Travis,

I made them, there is a lot of parts are not available or need to be customized.

I recommend to buy NWSL wheels, they are very good and work perfect on GG track, but maybe not on tubular track.

any question I'll be glad to help you.

Andre.

DL&W Pete,

I have performed many conversions of this type for other modelers.  I can install scale insulated wheelsets on your trucks but some decisions need to be made regarding how you intend to configure the model once the trucks are insulated for 2 rail.  If I insulate the non-geared side of each truck, you will have to insulate the trucks from each other or they will short out throught the steel frame of the model.  If I insulate the trucks so that all insulated wheels are on one side of the engine, you will have to fabricate and install pickup wipers for the insulated wheels.  Either method requires additional work to make the locomotive operational on 2 rails.  That would be your call.

Joe Foehrkolb

Thanks Andre!

Keil-Line had small bronze flanged bushings for sideframes available. They must still offer them.

Must? 

Q-car sells brass inserts for sideframes.

Thanks Chris and mwb. I'll see if I can track some down.

The easiest way to 2-rail these things is to insulate one side, then use a "tender".  I usually use an express refrigerator to pick up the opposite polarity, but for an AA set you just use the other unit, and separate them with plastic couplers.

I am with Joe - best to retain the Williams truck block, if you cannot power the center axle any other way.  My converted K- Line will outpull my 2- rail MTH by a huge margin.

I believe, but am not sure, that the axle gear splitting problem was fixed by Weaver some years ago.  They started using aged Celcon.  That is the secret.  You machine the stuff after aging, and no more problems

Tell me more about Sterling?  Are their prices within the zone of reasonableness?

My big question is, now that these are so cheap that I cannot resist, how accurate are they? Are they full size, or slightly undersize, like the Williams PAs, Challengers, etc.?

Bob,

I found Sterling Instruments pricing to be reasonable. More so because the quality of the product is very good. I had ordered a couple dozen sprockets to re-do my Weaver drives with, using a much larger 18 tooth lower sprocket (ala Brian Scace's example) for my RS3 units, giving excellent low speed characteristics, and a slightly lower ration on my FA2 road units. Their chain is an exact match for the Weaver chain.

My next order from them will be for cog belts and pulleys to drive the unpowered third axles on my Sunset GG1. Once I measure and calculate everything.

bob,

these WBB E7's are the same size as the weaver E8's. both E7's back to back are 33" long. and the detail is just as good as weaver's.

I will take some pictures of the southern set I just bought to show the detail of the shells.  

joe,

what would be the best way to make them run on 2 rail, I just want to add soundtraxx EMD dual 567 sound decoder on each A unit. 

Best way would be to get Jay C or MWM to make a drop- in mechanism.  Most cost effective way is to get Joe to insulate as a pair, using one A unit for each polarity.  In between is AG's method.

Thanks for the info on Sterling and the Williams bodies.  If I spring for a pair, they will be done the cost- effective way.  The paint job is worth $140.

Opinion.

Why not go battery-powered RC:

http://www.nwsl.com/S-CAB_Radio_DCC_Control.html

and a Yahoo forum for it:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-CAB/

Pete,

if you go with SoundTraxx, then the 'Super-Tsunami' by Protocraft will suit your need perfectly. They are rated for 3½ amps each, compared to the stock version at 1½ amps.