The very last thing I would want is crew chatter on a model train. But I am curious - I have heard some chatter on videos posted in the model forums, and all transmissions seem to end with "over".
I spend a great deal of time on the radio - I have almost 20,000 flight hours over the span of a half-century, and the only time I hear the term "over" is as a joke. Do railroads actually use that term at the end of their radio transmissions?
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I don't hear it around here. I do hear something like, "BNSF Marshall dispatcher, out." at the end.
Kent in SD
Per rules:
"Over" means you're finished with that transmission and expect a response.
"Out" means you're finished with the conversation.
Examples:
Dispatch: "Dispatch to P-train, over."
P-train: "P-train, go ahead."
Dispatch: "What is your location, over?"
P-train: "Northbound at MP 377 + 25 poles, over."
Dispatch: "Thank you, Dispatch out."
Then there's the "non-authorized" radio use and radio incidents that all of us "out there" have experience with. 
I have crew chatter in mine and for me, it's great. I have three engines with it and there are times I just sit and listen to it.
In aviation we have "over", "out", and a couple of other terms defined as above, yet these two terms are now simply never used. We also have a term "Roger", probably named after a rabbit, and it too has now thankfully dropped from normal usage.
I was just wondering if all that had happened in railroading as well - thanks for the info.
I taught radio for railroading for years. In simplest terms:
Over is used when you expect a reply.
Out is for the end of the transmission.
Roger is for message heard and understood. (...not for replying "yes")
Conductor Earl
Conductor Earl
'Bout those unauthorized transmissions...
(No RR names/places are named to protect the innocent and/or guilty!)
Several years ago a larger railroad stacked up some inbound road freights awaiting to enter one of their big yards. The yard was a mess and yard jobs were doing their best... but it just takes a while sometimes.
The road crews had been sitting for hours waiting to get in, tie up, and go to rest (or home, if it was their home terminal). It was late at night, and everyone was dog-tired and bleary eyed. There was a pause in the yard switcher's radio and one of the (assumed) inbound waiting freights keyed up and said (cleaned up as best I can!)...
"I'm tired. This is f-in' BS."
No sooner had that been said, than the Yard Master immediate got on the radio and demanded in a very indignant and "official" sounding voice:
"Transmitter of that last message identify yourself!!!"
There was a bit of a pause as everyone listened. Then came the response...
"I said I was tired, not stupid."
Out.
"I said I was tired, not stupid."
Out.
Well that cracked me up after a long day.
moving on to what I'll call reasonable BSing theory: it's likely that the over/out/roger have fallen out of use as radios have become more advanced. Early on it was likely common for parts of messages to be cut out and so confirming you heard everything, or that you were done speaking was important. With modern equipment I think it is fairly uncommon to have such issues, so confirming signals have fallen out of use. Something else I notice in ham/cb radio are the folks that start every transmission with a "Uhh.." which confused me for a while until I realized that the first second or so after keying down gets cut off on a lot of equipment.
"Nobody moves...Nobody gets hurt". Safety First!
"I said I was tired, not stupid."
That was priceless... Now if you'll excuse me I have to wipe the coffee off of my computer.
The comments by Laidoffsick are concise and correct.
I don't know if the following was unique to us on Frisco trains, but we would get tired of all that required identification and protocol and just key the mike twice to give acknowledgement to things like: straight rail, over the slow order, or whatever. The headend could key the mike and give 2 shorts on the horn to answer transmissions.
Or best of all, we just passed signals and left the radio silent.
When I worked for NS as a conductor we did use 'over' and 'out' as stated by those above.
However, we were not supposed to use people's names over the radio as multiple people might have the same name within radio range. And someone might hear their name over the radio when a train movement message was meant for someone else with the same name. Therefore, possibly, causing someone to make a train movement when they shouldn't. Could cause very bad results. So, contrary to what was mentioned by someone above, the phrase 'roger' was never allowed in the Pittsburgh territory where I worked. We always used the word 'copy' to indicate message understood.
Rick
I worked for NYC transit we never used roger .one train operator must have been new said roger to the tower the tower came back my names not roger
All those words are officially part of aviation, except "copy". Copy is used now and then, as in "do you copy".
You have provided the answer - railroaders use "over"after eacn transmission, and these model crew chatter abominations are doing it correctly.
I meant the Roger Rabbit as a joke - but Roger is still in the Airman's Information Manual, and it means the same thing as "copy". It is almost never used.
"Wilco", on the other hand, was not used widely until just recently. It means "will comply". I started using it about a decade ago, to shorten readbacks, and its use is gradually becoming widespread. Beats the crap out of repeating a very long set of instructions.
In aviation, very few Americans can afford to learn to fly. We are training more folks from the Orient than we are US citizens. They always read back every word of every transmission - so, being the nice guys that we are, those of us who speak English fluently say "wilco" so there is more space for long readbacks by those for whom Pakistani is the primary language.
Wyhog said:
quote:That is a VERY OLD joke, but still funny. I heard that one when I worked on the Penn Central in the early 1970s.
One cannot vouch for the authenticity of any of the lore or tales told 'round the depot late at night when several crews are in the midst of a good "BS'n Session".
As I recall, this particular tale was told during a night when there were three or four crews waiting to get their paperwork in order to get started with their shift. (I was waiting on KCS Bulletins so I could enter their yard later.) I do recall getting quite a guffaw out of it when said story/lore/tall tale was told by one of the KCS crews that was attending said "BS'n Session". Was it a "sure'nuf, really, really happened" event? I didn't know... didn't worry about it, frankly. It was funny and we all had a good laugh.
quote:However, most railroad radios today... <snip: tattle tale technology>... So I suggest if one likes his/her job you don't try such things very often. Real crew members HAVE been disciplined using this technology.
Fortunately, I'm not a foul-mouthed individual, so that's not a problem. However one night I DID let the "s" word slip out when communicating with the Conductor when I was very, VERY frustrated with a poor performing set of power that was being contrary during a hard pulling move. Shame on me.
Some of the funnier radio bloopers I've personally heard were accidental and/or unintentional. Take this incident for example...
I was sent on a multiple week loan-out by the company I worked for at the time. When I hit the Yard Office/TM's office to check-in, he asked what job I wanted to work. I said "whichever one was getting the most hours and nobody else wanted to work it." (Why kill time in a strange town when I could be simply working/eating/sleeping? Made more money that way, and the time passes quicker.)
He indicated that would the graveyard switch job, for it often died on the law. Sounded good. After a quick briefing, it was off to check-in at the motel, set up "home" and get some sleep before the 10 PM call time.
It was indeed a busy job, and during the course of the night there were several trains into/out of the yard... so there were two or more crews switching at once. Those of you that have worked for a railroad know how much radio traffic that generates, and how all of you have to really keep your head cut-in to keep everyone safe.
I was working with two ground crewman: A Conductor and Brakeman. The Conductor was a sharp fellow that definitely knew what he was doing. The Brakeman had recently graduated from his two weeks of Ground School, and had just finished his OJT. He was now "officially" marked-up and at last was a shore-nuf "Railroader". (He really wanted to be one.) I think I recall this was his first week as a marked-up employee.
Anyway, "Kevin" was a nice kid... but he sure liked the biscuits n' gravy... for he most definitely was NOT a "svelte" sort of fellow, but instead a bit on the "portly" side. However, he really was a good kid and really was trying.
As the night wore on, there were a couple of times after bringing me to a joint that Kevin opened the angle cock too quickly after lacing up the air hoses. That puts the cut/train into emergency with a loud "POW!". He always apologized, but of course, we still reserved the right to raze him about it.
We were shoving to yet another joint and Kevin was counting me down to the joint among all the other radio chatter that was taking place on the other jobs. Once the joint was made, his radio crackled "Redzone 1122".
"Set and centered on the 1122." I responded.
"POW!!!". (He had blown us up again.)
Trying to explain what happened, his choice of words and phraseology was a bit... umm... unfortunate:
"Sorry... gotta' stiff cock."
The radio traffic IMMEDIATELY went stone cold SILENT.
Then we all busted out laughing and NEVER let the poor young man forget that one!!!
I don't see "over" at the end of all your transmissions.
There is one time I hear "over" in the aviation world: "WTF, over?" Usually in conversation - if it were over the air, the answer would be " Whoever said that, rock your wings".
quote:"POW!!!". (He had blown us up again.)
Been there baby. Up and down both sides of that street!
I wouldn't be too hard on the guy though. It could very well have been a car in the train had a bad control valve that caused the undesired emergency. I've had anglecocks that no matter how easy you turned the air in, it knocked the air down. And, I've had anglecocks that were hard to turn at first , then got real easy, slipped and didn't knock the air down. I've also many times had a man making a cut, close an anglecock while I was drawing the air down and cause the head portion of the train to go in emergency.
Big Jim:
Naw, we weren't hard on the kid at all, instead we were all pretty much just enjoying the night as best we could and having some fun with him. I've often wondered if the young man stuck with railroading. (I'm with a different RR company now.) As I'm sure you've seen over the years, sometimes someone interested in trains/railroading that enters the vocation discovers it's not what they thought it would be and leave it.
bob2:
As for "over" each and every time as well as "out", etc, etc: When using the mainline channels, yes. When switching in the yard on a yard channel... sometimes. Hopefully you can find it in your heart to forgive me.
I hardly ever say "over" or "out"..... but "whatever" seems to slip out quite often.
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