Skip to main content

In CY 2012, Lionel American Flyer announced ten different SD70ACe diesels for the first time in "S". I wound up purchasing the C&NW unit, catalog # 6-48176. At that point in time, I could only admire it as I was in the process of retiring and building a new house. This prevented me from running it for the first 8 months of ownership.

Once I got my loop of American Models track installed on my new layout, I proceeded to oil it up, add smoke fluid, and do some break-in running. While I was generally pleased with the looks of the unit, operational issues soon reared their ugly head, and continue to this day. This makes it more of a shelf-queen locomotive than one  you "love to run".

I like a mechanical challenge, so I've been working to install various identified improvements-specifically Carl Tuveson's upgrade to spring the center driver-sets on each truck for improved electrical pickup.I was finally able to purchase the required springs and install them about a week ago. You can tell the center wheel-set is not actually touching the rail during operation (as built) since the blackening on the tread was  still intact.

I have also re-soldered all the truck power wire connections where they join inside the locomotive body and re-installed the heat shrink tubing. 

When I powered up the loco after this work, I was still appalled at the running characteristics even though the center wheel set now touches the railhead as evidenced by witness marks on the wheel treads.

To get to the point, my annoyances with this engine are as follows (and I understand these were corrected on later production-I'm not trying to start a flame war-just get some other owners experiences).

1) When running in normal "Forward" mode, the engine will sometimes just come to a complete halt and accompanies that issue with a complete Railsounds package shutdown- I actually had a phone conversation with Jon Z about that issue after I began running it and he noted there was a software issue that causes that particular problem. When the engine stops completely, I notice the engine number boards tend to flicker as well, even though the headlight does not (separate board).

2) IF I run the engine in reverse (cab in the back) the engine tends to run much better, but is still susceptible to the issue at times. The number board lights are much more steady in reverse-running. In a Forum discussion from this past March, Forum member "T O Kelly" said he had reversed the orientation of the traction tire wheel set and the center wheel set by swapping their positions. I tried that on my locomotive, but the traction tired wheel set has a brass cylinder + black band around that cylinder to actuate a Hall effect sensor (though the rear truck is not wired for a sensor-just the front). I tried that, but the black band is actually a larger OD than the machined cavity in the truck, so I couldn't swap them in my locomotive.

3) My second annoyance is that anytime I actuate the smoke unit, the engine will completely shut down in about thirty seconds - as if a circuit breaker had just popped. It can be in any of the Legacy controlled modes of Low, Medium, or High - doesn't matter. It acts like the control board cannot handle the required current of the smoke unit + still control the engine itself. This issue has been since day-one, like the running issue.

I'm just wanting to hear what experiences others that purchased locomotives in this first run have dealt with regarding my issues..... I have a first run GN "Big Sky" blue & white U33C that runs superb-only issue is that was geared too high-since corrected in the second run of these. My latest CoG ES44 diesel is superb in all respects even though it appears to use the same main drive trucks as the SD70ACE series. Even better than these is my N&W Y3 that runs like a Swiss watch. BTW, I operate in Legacy mode using TPC300's and a 180watt PH.

 

 

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

I had been reluctant to buy the original SD70ACe because of the problems Carl Tuveson had described when the locomotive crosses an American Models switch. I finally ended up buying one and applying his fix of adding springs to the center axles, but now and then the locomotive still stalled on one of those switches. After studying the layout of contacts a bit, I swapped the positions of the axles 5 and 6 (counting from the front of the locomotive) on the rear truck only. The problem went away. I ordered a second SD70ACe and merely made the swap without adding springs, and it has run without a problem across the same switches.

That problem was one of electrical contact and geometric spacing of contact points. Swapping axles merely changed the spacing so that no contact would be lost across the AM switches. Your problem sounds different, although losing Railsounds intermittently is a symptom of lost electrical contact (as is flickering lights), even momentarily.  On Legacy AC power, both locomotives of mine run flawlessly. On DC power, they will frequently fail to respond at all to increases in power to run them forward. Sometimes they do respond, but run for several seconds, stop, start again for several seconds, stop, and continue to balk this way until power is turned off. Reverse direction is never a problem on DC. When the failure to respond or balking occurs, I start them very slowly in reverse, then switch direction to forward by changing the polarity. That always seems to work, and once the locomotives have "learned" how to go forward, they continue to work properly until I switch back to Legacy AC operation. (The ES44AC locomotives seldom show this behavior.)

Your symptoms are different from mine because you operate in Legacy AC all the time, and I don't use the smoke feature on the diesels I have. I have no problems at all in Legacy mode, but maybe the forward/reverse preference is a clue to something else. Railsounds cut out now and then with some steam locomotives, but that is always due to dirty track or wheels at a particular spot, and cleaning fixes the audio problem. I suspect you're experiencing a loss of electrical contact somehow, and it's difficult to determine if it's in the wheels or internal wiring. 

TOKelly-thanks for your reply. I read your first post back in March incorrectly-I thought you's swapped axle #4 with axle #5. I will try swapping axle 5 & 6 and report back. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try swapping the trucks from my ES44 onto this SD70 unit and see if anything improves as far as stalling.

I think the smoke issue is separate and more due to electrical components that are undersized for their intended usage....

I tried to find my notes on what I did, but I can't seem to find them. I just checked both SD70 locomotives and found that the front truck has the traction tired axle in the middle position, and the rear truck has its traction tires toward the front of the locomotive. I don't recall any problem in making the switch, such as interference with the Hall effect sensor. I looked at Carl Tuveson's pictures of the axles on the trucks, and it would appear the only change I made was to the front truck, not the rear truck. I apologize if I confused you--I confused myself on this one.

My BNSF SD70 had those issues on less than ideal track work as did my early SP U33c's, but with the wheelset swap that I described (search on "Better ops from first run AF U33c and SD70ACe") they've run much better ever since.  Unfortunately Lionel ran out of the required wheelset.  I haven't checked lately to see if they're in stock again or not.  

 

 

Last edited by Sgaugian

NEW DATA Point: This morning I decided to set up a loop of original Gilbert curve track to test out my SD70ACe and its operating issues. I cleaned the railheads with some Scotchbrite pad just to even the playing field. Power for the test was a Lionel GW180 transformer, only I was only running it in conventional mode. While the swivel of the trucks was just adequate for the Gilbert curves, the engine ran much, much better AND the smoke unit worked without any engine shutdowns. There were no Railsounds dropouts.

Data Point #2: My next test involved swapping the truck assemblies from my sweet running ES44 to my struggling SD70ACe. Once the engine trucks were swapped I put it on my American Models flex track loop to test it out. My SD70ACe now ran as sweetly as my ES44 did; therefor, my deduction is the problem is somewhere in the truck assemblies that came on my SD70. This engine now made it around my complete loop at Legacy speed step one without faltering, and, the smoke unit was operating and did not result in complete locomotive shutdown seen previously.

My next effort involved teardown of both of my SD70 truck assemblies completely to inspect for any obvious areas for electrical shorting, unfortunately, I could not find anything amiss as all three molded insulators between the truck block halves appeared to be doing their job. I reassembled everything and tried the engine again-while operation is somewhat improved, it does not mimic the operation it had with the newer ES44 trucks installed, even though they are the same basic truck design. For whatever reason, my spring-install effort on the center wheel sets  has not paid-off the same as Carl saw.

BTW: To correct an earlier mis-statement, the Hall effect sensor is on the rear truck block, not the front one.

SUCCESS!  Despite what I thought about the sprung center drivers not providing the expected improvement in operation, the more I ran the unit the better it seemed to operate this afternoon. Based on TOKelly's advice on swapping axles two and three, I elected to do that late this afternoon. It can be done as both axles are the same size, unlike the rear trucks.

That little swap was the final puzzle piece to get this cantankerous little piece of machinery operating like it should have five years ago when delivered.

Thanks to TOKelly and Carl Tuveson for providing the needed links to make this engine operational again. It will now crawl at Legacy speed step one around my layout WITH smoke operating if desired with no blinking of the engine marker lights. It even got through my American Models turnouts without issue now-this used to be one of the troubleshoots around the layout.

TOKelly: I've had some luck improving electrical operation across my AM turnouts by taking a flat file and burnishing the outside edge of the swivel point rail + the inside of the stock rail where it rests. There seems to be some resistance there possibly from the weathering process on the rail during manufacture(?). I did this to both swivel rails and it even helped the SD70 prior to the last two days work on it.

The iconic SD40 would be sweet-much like the one announced around 1999 but never produced......

D&H 65: I also clean that part of the AM turnouts whenever I clean my track. It's an often-overlooked spot that can accumulate bits of ballast or rogue pieces of foliage as well as the material that fouls the top of the rails. A bit of bending the tip of the point rail now and then also aids in close physical and electrical contact. All this tidiness keeps things rolling--until someone comes over to "see the trains run." Then nothing works right!

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×