Deaths, injuries reported after Amtrak, CSX trains collide in South Carolina

Sad news, thoughts and prayers for those affected. 

PHOTO UPDATE: 7:15 AM Feb., 4, 2018

Gary

Photo Update: Feb., 4. 2018 8:00 AM ET

Gary

It looks bad, especially the cab of the Amtrak engine.  Causes me to wonder if the two dead were the engine crew?  We will find out later today, surely.

It's Sunday morning and the politicians have not yet found their way to news cameras.  Don't worry, they will, soon.

Oh boy, not another wreck. Hopefully this problem gets fixed and people stop dying. My prayers go out to the victims and politicians making the decisions for Amtrak.

Both cabs look bad like this was a head on, 

Photo Update: TSB on the way. Feb., 4, 2018 / 8:39 AM

Gary

Not trying to jump to any conclusions but seeking to understand how this happened.  A study of Google maps at the crash site looks like Amtrak may have been switched over to the siding where the CSX was sitting.  The main tracks look like they are the rails to the left (south) of the CSX freight. 

Map of Crash Site

Steims posted:

Not trying to jump to any conclusions but seeking to understand how this happened.  A study of Google maps at the crash site looks like Amtrak may have been switched over to the siding where the CSX was sitting.  The main tracks look like they are the rails to the left (south) of the CSX freight. 

Good Morning: Fellow Member Steims

Can you please supply the Google Maps Link or a Screenshot of this area of the tracks?  So we can have a better understanding.

Just saw your link: Sorry

Thanks: Gary

Quite discouraging. Amtrak has been starved for capital and CSX has had immense mangement upheaval. Guess these sorts of things happen under those conditions.

What a shame.  For the two dead and for Amtrak's reputation.  Things come in three's, or so the superstition goes.  The Washington crash, the GOP crash and now this one.  I wonder if we will learn of human error ?

Condolences and prayers to the families of those who were killed and injured. Amtrak has a major issue to deal with right now! " It was the second major crash for Amtrak in less than a week." - And the other serious crash in late 2017 requires a complete investigation. 

Some more Cable TV news photos.

Gary

Raw: Wreckage of Amtrak Train Collision

Play time: 21 seconds

Source: AP

Gaey

Two Google Earth Maps of the area.

These maps should give up a perspective of what the track location looks like.

Amtrak train heading south. CSX train on north siding. Reports say at this time. This is subject to change. 

Gary

Sorry to see this!

My condolences to the families of the dead, and my prayers to the injured.

Chris

LVHR

Would this subdivision have Positive Train Control??

Gregg posted:

Would this subdivision have Positive Train Control??

It might but then, Amtrak probably does not. Same situation out in Washington State, i.e. ALL the BNSF and UP freight trains between Seattle and Portland, have, and use, PTC, but Amtrak does not, yet.

Here is a video that shows the Amtrak train on the same track as the freight.  Looks like the Amtrak train was switched to the freight siding a 1/4 mile earlier.

The video moves to the other side of the overpass 25 seconds in.

https://twitter.com/thestate/s...s/960138064281722881

GenesisFan99 posted:

Hopefully this problem gets fixed and people stop dying. 

What PROBLEM would you be taking about????

If you can figure out how to stop human factor related ACCIDENTS, you'll will be a very rich man! 

How could a switching mistake like that happen?

JVM-51 posted:

How could a switching mistake like that happen?

When it is all done and said, I'm sure the NTSB will explain everything to us.

Sounds like a "central control room" human error, kind of like the Hawaiian missile alert fiasco.

Some additional information - it appears CSX crews had been working on the switch and signal system prior to the incident.

Source:

https://www.bizjournals.com/ja...king-at-site-of.html

Hot Water posted:

JVM-51 posted:

How could a switching mistake like that happen?

When it is all done and said, I'm sure the NTSB will explain everything to us.

Which begs the question: What is the typical cycle time from rail incident to NTSB published report?

A long time.  

https://www.ntsb.gov/investiga.../Pages/railroad.aspx

Gentlemen,

  It will be very interesting to know how both these trains got routed on to the same tracks, knowing the security system and computer alert criteria now being used by the RR this had to be a human over ride of the system.  Somebody had to over ride the system to allow these trains on the same tracks at the same time.

PCRR/Dave

From the article linked to above, it may  be an issue of the system being disconnected, so the AMTRAK never got the signal.

Again, just from the new article..

"The CSX train was sitting on a side line known as the industry line, according to a source familiar with the matter. A switch that was supposed to send the Amtrak train down the cleared main line was not in the proper position and sent it down the industry line instead, the source said.

Typically, an automatic signal would have warned that the switch was in the wrong position, instructing the engineer to slow down. However, a crew had recently been working on the system in that area, and it may have been shut off when the incident occurred, the source said."

EscapeRocks posted: 

"The CSX train was sitting on a side line known as the industry line, according to a source familiar with the matter. A switch that was supposed to send the Amtrak train down the cleared main line was not in the proper position and sent it down the industry line instead, the source said.

Typically, an automatic signal would have warned that the switch was in the wrong position, instructing the engineer to slow down. However, a crew had recently been working on the system in that area, and it may have been shut off when the incident occurred, the source said."

Don’t railroads use some form of “Lock Out-Tag Out” when any work is done in rail yards?

For what it's worth, it has apparently been confirmed that there was a "Signal Suspension" in affect in that area of the CSX line.

Transportation disasters typically are never caused by a single event.  The systems we have tend to involve an element of human error and mechanical/electrical failures.  This event sure sounds like a dispatcher threw the switch not knowing the Amtrak was southbound and then the (known) signal failures failed to warn the Amtrak what was ahead.   I suspect the Amtrak engineer started braking as soon as he saw the switch thrown but there was not enough distance to stop. 

Thoughts and prayers go out. 

Steims posted:

Transportation disasters typically are never caused by a single event.  The systems we have tend to involve and element of human error and mechanical/electrical failures.  This event sure sounds like a dispatcher threw the switch

How do you know it was a "power switch", controlled by a Dispatcher?

not knowing the Amtrak was southbound and then the (known) signal failures failed to warn the Amtrak what was ahead. 

How do you know it was a "signal failure"?

 I suspect the Amtrak engineer started braking as soon as he saw the switch thrown but there was not enough distance to stop. 

Thoughts and prayers go out. 

TM Terry posted:

Hot Water posted:

JVM-51 posted:

How could a switching mistake like that happen?

When it is all done and said, I'm sure the NTSB will explain everything to us.

Which begs the question: What is the typical cycle time from rail incident to NTSB published report?

about a year or so we will see that report

"Authorities said the two people killed in an early-morning train collision in South Carolina were Amtrak employees."  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...outh-carolina-crash/

The Victims

Gary

Hot Water posted:

For what it's worth, it has apparently been confirmed that there was a "Signal Suspension" in affect in that area of the CSX line.

What does that mean?? 

two words:    human error 

Amtrak is have a terrible run of bad luck.  The Washington State accident may or not be Amtrak's fault.  The West Virginia charter train hitting a garbage truck and this appears to be just awful timing and luck.  My heartfelt condolences go to the families of all those that were killed and injured.  These things shouldn't happen in the 21st century.

NH Joe

What a shame. NTSB report should be interesting. The one thing I'm wondering is if the Amtrak engineer applied the brakes when he realized the train was sent into the industrial siding. I'm sure at the speed they were going it didn't take long to see the CSX train in their path but by then it must've been too late. Did CSX confirm that signal maintenance was going on in that stretch of track?