Did MTH do it again on the Interstate ES44AC

MTH's locomotive is correct.

Note the white stripes at the bottom is different from the tan up top.

Scott spent the money to purchase the locomotive.  If he states it is correct, it is. 

Here's another picture of the original.

I am an Interstate Railroad fan and I have seen the locomotive twice up-close.

Scott Smith

Sorry to say fellas but the unit I saw does not have the right color. It is wrong and MTH knows it. I am not the only one to notice that it is wrong.

Time to take off the MTH glasses and admit they screwed it up. 

I saw the MTH model today.  I don't know anything about the prototype paint scheme, but the model sure is a sharp looking engine.  

Best decision I ever made in this hobby was to focus on just a couple of prototype roads to model so I can resist the constant urge to buy more and more.  I already violated that "rule" to a certain extent when I bought a number of EMD and GE demo diesels recently, not to mention a half-dozen geared locomotives (Shay, Heisler, and Climax).

For wheat it's worth, here's the one I have.  I would definitely describe this as a cream or off-white color.  

Plus, Lionel's version looks to be the same.  Isn't it unlikely that both manufacturers would've gotten it wrong?

- Mike

Looks pretty close to me. 

Marty, just because Steve spent the money on this engine, because he is an Interstate fan, does not make it correct. There are many people in this 3-rail hobby who spend significant dollars on engines and rolling stock that are not prototypically correct. 

I am a big fan of MTH products and have been since Mike first started with his Dash-8's, way back when. I have more "purple boxes" in my basement, than I care to count. When MTH announced the "Heritage Series" I was very pleased to say the least. The Interstate engine was the #1 engine I wanted to get!! I have a few of the earlier releases and they are "spot on" to the prototype. When the Savannah & Georgia was released, with it's incorrect stripe, etc., which was before the Interstate, I started to wonder if MTH was going to get my #1 "Heritage" engine correct.

When I heard it was released, I called JusTrains and asked them to bring one to the Greenberg Show in Wilmington, DE yesterday during my set-up of the Independent Hi-Railers modular layout. I went over to Pete and asked to see the engine. I was very surprised to see the "Tan" color on the top and upper sides. It is the "Tan" color they use in their "army" paint schemes, on engines like the SD-40. MTH got the REST of the engine correct!! No denying that!

In the pictures I have seen on "railpictures.net" of the Interstate, which by the way, I have numerous for screen savers, the top and upper sides of the engine are a "lighter" ivory color, not a "tan". There is too much "brown" in the color on the MTH model. Had they "toned" it down a bit, it may have been better and acceptable. During the show today, I hunted down a Lionel Interstate engine for comparison, none where there to compare. However, I did see the Lionel Interstate caboose at Pete Costas table,.....it was "dead-on"!!! It was significantly more "Ivory" in the areas of concern then the MTH model.

In my view, MTH "missed" this one. It is disappointing, as I really wanted this engine, and I wanted it in MTH. I am not a big fan of the "shiny" finish of Lionel engines, and this is the reason why I do not own any Lionel Heritage units, nor many of their diesel engines in general, but....I must say, Lionel got the paint colors on this one model correct!!!

Yes, there are times I look at my 3-rail empire thru "purple-hazed" glasses, like Marty and Scott do, but this time the glasses have to come off.

Doesn't Scott buy all brands? What are MTH glasses? Can I get a pair?? Seems like you have an axe to grind???

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=3003612

Engineer Joe,

If MTH's model were what is pictured in the link in your post, I would have bought it yesterday from JusTrains, when I saw it, in a HEARTBEAT!!! There is no axe grinding going on here. It is simply "fact"!! Lionel got that upper "Ivory" color spot-on!!! MTH did not, which is sad, since I wanted this engine the most, of all the Heritage units being produced by MTH (which was stated in my earlier post).

Joe, 

There is no axe to grind here. I made a statement that MTH got the paint scheme wrong. I am right and so are others that are interstate and MTH fans. All we want is that MTH get the paint schemes correct and in this instance they got it wrong.

No need to think I have an axe to grind or I hate MTH, nothing could be further from the truth. 

I would say that the when I compare the orange on the real engine in the photos above to the orange on the model, the orange on the model seems to be more of a tan orange whereas the the real engine seems to be a brighter more vivid orange.  It may just be my eyes.  

Joe 

Marty,

sent you an email tonight - NJ HiRailers. Looking for a MTH UP Premier Big Boy. Any chance you can locate one?

K

This looks to be one of those colors that look different depending on the lighting.   I have looked online at photos of the loco and the color seems to vary from bright white to cream to tan, depending on the photo and lighting.    Most of the photos are a lighter tan or cream than the MTH photo, but which color is the "real" color?   I would have to trust the eyes of those who have seen the original, before I would make a call or argument based on digital photos posted on the internet. 

I have not seen the engine myself, but they all look like great paint schemes, including the MTH model.

It depends on the lighting I would say, but it doesn't appear to be white in ALL these pictures.

http://www.nsdash9.com/heritage/NS8105.html

Boy,

Come on folks let's tone it down a little. This abusive talk toward other well-seasoned Forum members is the cause for threads to vanish. The topic and ill-will it's creating are the main reasons veteran Forum members wash their hands and have little to do with the Forum anymore. There will come a time down the road when members need help and assistance from the veteran members. It's then that the few that toss blame around are to blame.

My goodness, if you do not like this or that about a product tell the maker of the item how you feel. If you're not happy with the paint, have someone correct it for you. If there's a bump somewhere it doesn't belong, correct it yourself or have someone else do so. If there's to many rivets start counting again. For pete sake it is only a toy train. Hold it in your hands and think about what you're holding. IT'S ONLY A TOY and nothing else. If you want an exact duplicate of the prototype you'll have to purchase more than a toy. This applies to the paint scheme as well.

Everything I collect is pre WWII. The same applies here as well. If Mike's new remake has more rivets on the left side or the color does not match my vintage piece, who cares? After all what I own is a toy and nothing else. 

Could it be the type of lighting people are viewing/photographing the model under?

Perhaps someone who owns the MTH model (Mike Caruso?) could shoot a few outdoors in natural light for a better comparison?

I've noticed that my shots of trains on our club layout are often slightly off due to the overhead fluorescents. Perhaps herein lies the 'discrepancy'...

Thanks for this link Joe.

I ask you - is this the same engine in both photos below?

Personally, I think I like the 'white' in the top photo but the 'tan' one is quite classy in itself.  If you were the model painter, which one would you choose to shoot...

Maybe they repainted the real engine with a different color! LOL

Let's see if my photo muddy up the water even more.

You can tell by looking at the photos, that the top picture has been altered by 1 of several photo editing programs. It's very simple to change tone, hue, contrast, brightness, etc etc. The bottom picture looks much more natural. Model photography can't be compared if you're using the flash, and just as easy to change white balance throwing everything off. I could post the same picture and make it look 10 different ways. You really need to see them in person.

 You can tell by looking at the photos, that the top picture has been altered by 1 of several photo editing programs.

Or simply by using a filter on the camera.

For the record, here's a photo (from "The Interstate Railroad" book by Ed Wolfe) of Interstates RS3 in original cream/gray/orange paint:

Never having seen an original Interstate engine nor one of the new ES44 models in person, I can't say what's right or wrong.  Sure is a nice "Creamsicle" paint scheme though.

So, one thing I'm certain of...it's not suppose to be white.

I think the question that needs to be asked is whether MTH and Lionel depend on pictures to determine paint colors and schemes, or do they personally VIEW  engines themselves.  Being a professional photographer myself, pictures of trains, auto, etc. very greatly depending on color temperature and time of day.  You'd be surprise the great swing in color tones based on time of day....from a range of warm 3200k afternoon shots to a high 5700k and above during the day. 

Unfortunately some photographers white balance off the nearest white, rather than a true white when shooting their pics.  Doing so, may artificially cause a light tan color (assuming it is indeed tan) as in our ES44AC to appear white if that's the color they balanced off on.  As someone else mentioned, there are also countless ways a photo can be manipulated in Adobe Photoshop to "pretty up" a photo....not taking prototypical color as much in consideration as a hobbyist might. Not knowing the "history" of the photo leaves a lot to be desired.

So in short, it seems to me IMO the question might be:  what source do these toy train companies rely on for their renderings?  Just pictures or live, personal encounters.

I believe Scott as he has seen the engine in person.

Has anyone else seen this engine in person and not just in photos?

I'm going to take my center 3rd rails ALL off NOW - they just can't get it RIGHT!!

In this case they probably used paint samples (or mix formulas) provided by the railroad (NS) since they would have been readily available for the Heritage series locomotives.

Live viewings wouldn't be much of a basis for determining accurate colors since everyone interprets colors differently and colors are dramatically affected by prevailing lighting conditions.  Even camera settings can obviously alter color.

I read threads like this and can easily understand why manufacturers are scaling back a bit on their 3-rail O gauge offerings.  

I read threads like this and can easily understand why manufacturers are scaling back a bit on their 3-rail O gauge offerings.

It's amazing isn't it. Add to that most of us men are partially color blind. The MTH Cream and the Lionel cream are the same. There is a little variation on the orange; however that might be attributed to the fact that Lionel used a gloss finish and MTH used a matte finish.

Scott Smith

I for one could care less on slight color variations, and it makes sense that paint samples are probably best when available.  It does appear there is little doubt with MTH that it is indeed a cream or tan  color as evidenced by the white accents on top of the cab.

It would be interesting to read the manufacturers take on how they determine colors in some article.  Just for entertainment purposes. It's most likely a combination of factors, depending largely on age and vintage of Engine.

This discussion on colors has come up numerous times on this forum, and I'm amazed how big a deal (along with rivet counts) .....not saying it's right or wrong...it is amongst some.  Sometimes color is in the eye of the beholder, and may always be somewhat subjective.

Some folks are compelled to complain, doesn't matter if it's valid, the "joy" is in the complaining.

Pete

It's also important to consider that the "white stripe" running along the frame of the prototype locomotive is reflective conspictuty tape, which can only be white or yellow per FRA regulations.

Rusty

The original poster demands that the color is white, when in fact (based on the data from Ed Wolfe's book) it is cream.  Shades of cream are not important at this point.

He states in his book that his father worked for the IRR and that as a kid he was around this stuff all the time.

From this site:

http://www.interstaterailroad.net/index.html

All the Interstate locomotives were painted at the factory in the Orange-sicle paint scheme, except #37. See side bar on Demo #1607.  The roof and upper sides were a cream color.  The lower body, cab sides and cab roof were orange.  There was a gray stripe between the orange and the cream colors.  The lettering and the numbers were black.The numbers on the end in the gray band were not added until 1960.  The trucks and lower frame were silver. The pilots were black with yellow safety stripes.  The couplers and the coupler pockets were painted silver.

The 1992 Sept/Oct issue of the Southern Rwy Historical Association magazine "Ties" has a how-to article on painting the IRR RS3.

The Interstate diesels that I have seen are a cream or light tan. I guess if the originating poster wants a white one he will have to paint it to his liking.

The only thing that really matters is how NS decided to paint the Heritage unit that they have.  That, if I understand things correctly, is the prototype for the model.

David, with all due respect, maybe the photo you saw (I'm assuming from the wording that this is not a photo you personally took) ...maybe that photo itself had been physically altered, "enhanced," Photoshopped or what have you, in a way that the cream was lightened to white?  

For any of us, it's hard to be sure unless we have seen the original with our own eyes, just how "true" the colors are.  Here are three different photos of the Interstate.  I would venture to say that all three offer a different representation of what the color scheme might be...particularly the orange isn't consistent in any of them.  Are they untouched?  Enahnced?  I have no idea.  The only thing I would offer up with certainty is that if you do a search of these things, the vast, VAST majority of them appear to be some shade of cream, off-white, whatever you want to call it.  I have yet to see one where the entire "cream" area is instead white.  Maybe the picture you saw was played with a little bit?  Any chance you could post it?

Respectfully 

Mike

I have seen threads like this many times. color varies by lighting, camera used and white balance settings on the camera, the printer or photo paper used and the eyes of the person viewing it. so to say the colors are wrong by looking at these images is no way to judge colors. then you have to see if there are variations in the actual color used on the real trains. colors vary from batch to batch, fade and change from the suns ultraviolet rays. they could have changer paint suppliers during the years also. so when you make a statement that the color is wrong, make sure you viewed the whole fleet in person and then judge. personally, I pass the RR yards on the Jersey Tpk and the CSX engines are all over the place in the shade of blue they use. so how can the statement be made that the color is wrong?

There was a hobby shop in Florida, one of the customers had is HO E7 model painted seafoam green by the Seaboard shops using the Seaboard's own paint.

Practically everyone who saw the model told him it was the wrong shade of green...

Rusty

Bingo!  I would definitely agree.  The biggest difference in photos from both manufacturer's offerings appears to be one being gloss and the other being matte.  Your Interstate unit looks great.  I have the Interstate Lionel offering and love it.

The only way to compare the two would be to photograph them one in front of the other, at the same time.  Even then, the colors would be slightly off, because of the difference in finish.

 There wasn't any name calling here. The original statement made it sound like the top was white. There wasn't a proper retraction of that statement. After that the color being discussed switched to orange???

 If I said that the coal depleting feature of another manufacturer was weak, would anyone be offended? I showed the Lionel video to a person who has no brand loyalty. He said that when the video showed that the coal was bottomed out and needed to be refilled, it barely looked like it should have. For that price, we both expected it to have the load depleted. I think some aftermarket work would be needed to get the full effect. I do applaud them for the innovation.

 I guess we all have our thing that we draw the line on towards accuracy. They are just models and we are supposed to be having fun with them. As they move towards the most realistic toy trains in history, we have to get nit picky, to find errors?

 "From the color pictures I have of the real thing looks to be white. 

If the above is true, why can't MTH get it right?"

 Is the above statement true or not?????

Oooh..a color topic I can finally comment that I've seen the real thing, in person.

David1.   The real thing is the cream/tan-ish color that others have mentioned.

Yes, there are pictures that make the top look bright white, but so far those look like highly color-modified digital pictures.

I am not a MTH or Lionel or Atlas, etc.. guy, but based on my in person viewing, and what I see of the model offerings, the colors are pretty darned close to reality.