Does Atlas own K-Line dies & molds?

No.

Its my understanding that Atlas has the sd70mac tooling from k-line.  

I seem to remember a thread about this...

Edit:  Oops!  My bad.  Its Bachmann that now has that k-line tooling.  RMT has some of the k-line tooling too.

Not sure about Atlas, but I know that Lionel has at least some of the old K-Line toolings. The Lionel Mikado and Shay are definitely K-line toolings...and maybe a couple of their diesels too.

-Eric Siegel

When Lionel dumped the K Line tooling, Atlas, Bachman, and RMT, did acquire tooling. Atlas may no longer have any at this time, but did early on. 

Don

a lot of guessing on who has what. Sanda-Kan acquired the tooling as payment owed when K-Line went bankrupt. Kader Industries then acquired the tooling when they acquired Sanda-Kan.  Kader Industries has sold or leased some of that tooling. Williams by Bachmann has used some of their parent companies tooling along with RMT and Lionel. Who actually owns what is anybodies guess.

K-Line plastic was from China and K-Line diecast was from Korea, I believe Korea Brass.  Lionel has access to the die-cast from Korea Brass.  Kader / Sanda Kan / Bachmann has most of the plastic.  RMT has the old Marx molds and some of the K-Line plastic molds.  Atlas had an agreement to use some of the plastic molds but several years ago dropped them because it would have been too much work to bring them up to Atlas standards. That's what I remember.

Dan

The Plastic O Scale Freight Cars would have been easier to upgrade, than the complicated locomotives. The men and women at Atlas missed an opportunity to sell a greater variety of freight cars.

Andrew

Rail, actually Sanda Kan dumped them.  My big intrest in all of this was the K Line passenger tooling.  WBB/Bachmann has that and announced two years ago they would not be doing the cars.  I would love to see MTH or Lionel get that tooling and work it for all it's worth. 

K-Line was very innovative and agree with Marty, it would work wekk in the hands of MTH or Lionel

I will go along with Bill T and say that Lionel used to have the sales rights for some K-Line items but the time has expired and Lionel no longer has rights to use any K-Line stuff except for inventory on hand(left over items that didn't sell).

A lot of things went mainly to Bachmann however RMT picked up some track items and maybe a few K-Line freight car moldings, not 100% sure.

It would be nice to see some K-Line passenger cars made again.

Maybe MTH will do something but it might be a really tough financial issue for any company to do anything with the old K-Line stuff.

I can't say if anything went to Atlas or not.

Lee Fritz

Marty,

K Line did have some really nice passenger cars. Many are highly sought after, and command high prices. A friend almost exclusively buys and sells K Line passenger sets. I'm surprised Bachmann has no interest; they are passing on a golden opportunity to compete with the other manufacturers. I'm not sure if Lionel or MTH would benefit, as they would be competing with their own lines. I think Lionel realized this when they tried the K- Nel venture. 

I can't remember who from Atlas told me that they had acquired some of the K Line tooling, but that was back when I was able to get around the halls and talk to the reps.

Don

Marty & Don,

Recently I bought a set of NIB K-Line passenger cars.  As you guys said, they're highly sought after and if you can find them, the prices are approaching beyond reasonable.  Most of us who want K-Line passenger cars are buying them and "hoarding' them-never to leave our collection.  As that continues, the prices, rarity, and desirable K-Line passenger cars will be harder to find and prices will increase.  Buy'em now!

As with anything, there are a few K-line passenger cars that are commanding extreme prices due to the rarity. After a 3 yr search, I found a flat end observation car ($375).  Hesitated on buying it at that price.  Guess what?  When I went back less than 10 minutes later it was gone!  I think that speaks volumes about how desirable some of these K-Line passenger cars are to operators/collectors!

Whenever I find a few cars, I buy them.  I love the quality and looks of these spectactular passenger cars.  The K-Line 21" and 18" passenger cars are incredible. 

If someone would reproduce these, I'd be the first in line to order/buy a set. I've often wondered where the tooling for these cars ended up.

The bigger question is who owns the tooling on the Menards $19.95 box cars? It looks as the car bodies may have been made using recently, found "extra" MPC tooling but then there is the question of the trucks. Another mystery is what happened to all of the tooling that was used to make Bill Bensons Right of Way Industries products? They made some beautiful passenger cars, trains and accessories in  their day. Who really knows what goes on in China? 

Maybe Walter can look into the tooling for RMT. Someone should produce the passenger cars. Those who are selling the K Line stock may not think so though!

Don

"It would be nice to see some K-Line passenger cars made again"

I seriously doubt that this will happen. Like Marty has said, WBB has no apparent interest because of what they project to be the cost.

I follow the K-Line cars closely on the auction sites and the 21" passenger cars, like Aaron has said, are commanding big prices. I agree with him that you better get them when you can as they are becoming more and more desirable.

I was lucky  back in the day when I purchased a very big order from Kirk at Just Trains for $58.00 each.  My walls and layout are loaded with them.  I have 12 new boxed sets under the layout unopened.  I want more.  This last York was good to me with those cars.

I got lucky at TTOS this summer in Buffalo and found the Rio Grande heavyweight set NIB for short money.   I also found another Amtrak baggage car.

If anyone needs the complete original passenger car list, let me know. 

Marty, between you and Alan, I suspect that combined you have 2/3 of all K-Line passenger cars ever made. The rest of us have table scraps. 

The bigger question is who owns the tooling on the Menards $19.95 box cars?

I don't think there is any mystery in the Menards boxcars. I would guess they contracted through Kader Industries to manufacture X amount of boxcars using the Williams tooling. The orange NP is Menards, the red AT&SF is Williams. Identical except for the trucks.

I have a set of thge K-Line Illinois Central cars that are stunning! My only problem is I can't find them right now and I ate too much yesterday so I can't crawl under the shelves/layout today. Trust me, they are absolutely beautiful cars.

Malcolm

I just wish someone would get the tooling for the K-Line trestle sets and bring them back again. I had plans to do the old D-256 display layout using Atlas-O track and the K-Line trestles when, "Poof!", no more K-Line trestles.

I may not be up to speed on this topic, so I guess my simple-minded question is this...

With such expressed demand for the for the K-line based passenger sets, why would Lionel( or whoever the presumptive owner of the tooling, rights, etc.is) not consider the possible future manufacture of some more sets?

John,  they do not own the tooling and have no access to it.   The guy was telling you the truth.  All that passenger car tooling is owned by WBB/Bachmann.  The tooling Lionel does own for heavyweight cars is excellent. Lionel has no say in K Line tooling.

John M, we all wish the sets would be run again.  They were great cars.  I am also a big fan of the Lionel 18 inch aluminum cars.  They are well built.

Waiting for WBB to Reintroduce their GP38. The catalog picture showed it was former K-line tooling.

"I may not be up to speed on this topic, so I guess my simple-minded question is this...

With such expressed demand for the for the K-line based passenger sets, why would Lionel( or whoever the presumptive owner of the tooling, rights, etc.is) not consider the possible future manufacture of some more sets?"

WBB parent company probably has no interest in selling or providing access to the K-Line passenger car tooling. Why give a great product to a competitor. And these cars are not the market that WBB caters to. So I doubt that we will see them again.

As others have said, if you like them, it would be a good idea to put them on your acquisition list as the price isn't going down anytime soon.

These cars were many years ahead of their time.

The people at Bachmann need to determine how much the K-Line Passenger Cars would cost if they were manufactured under current economic conditions in China and the USA.

Andrew

Marty and Brian,thank you for the answers, you guys are great! I own and run the K-line 28th anniversary NYC set behind my Hudsons and they are the most beautiful cars ever. The "streamlighting" was very advanced for the time and the "swing-away" steps allowed for tighter layouts. Great cars, great features.

Regards, John

"The people at Bachmann need to determine how much the K-Line Passenger Cars would cost if they were manufactured under current economic conditions in China and the USA."

I heard a number being bantered around some time ago at retail between $ 225 and $ 250 per car. The comments made were that the market would not accept these prices. End of story.

OUCH!

WBB/Bachman did the research on this and made the decision not to run the cars for prices today to get them done.  I asked them if they could be done in plastic and learned that the tool design would not let them be done in plastic.

The marketplace has cars available.  Some people buy them wnenever they see them. 

RMT PEEP passenger cars are made using former KLINE heavyweight passenger car tooling...however finished product is not as long as KLINE car.

Check them out online at  www.readymadetoys.com

Thanks.

Walter/RMT

The 21 inch Northern Pacific passenger cars go for super big bucks on the bay.

I don't know who or what company owns tooling  I do know that the last York before Bob Lawrence retired Atlas had a flyer at their booth hsowing something they planned to release that year  It was for the K-Line F59PH engine and the double decker passenger cars.  Maybe Bob's retirement and Jim's passing caused this to fall by the wayside because I have never seen it outside of their York booth that year

Thanks bluelinec4 for confirming what I had heard from Atlas. This was some time ago though, and I think I may have talked to Victor about K lIne tooling.

Don

Is there a complete summary of the disposed K-Line tooling?  I tried an advanced search but only find bits a pieces from which it appears

• RMT has use of the 13.5" plastic passenger molds and possibly some of the longer cars that are chopped down to create the RMT peeps.  RMT also has the K-Line shadow rail track and the semi-scale GG-1 and S2 bang.
• Williams by Bachmann has some of the scale diesels (RS3 and GP-35)
• Lionel had use of some of the scale steam: Pacific, Mikado, Berkshire, 2 truck Shay (As one who purchased the Lionel shay, I wish Lionel would create and offer for sale a 3D printer version of the 0-31 coupler bracket part to this shay.  Come on Lionel, please print it and offer it for sale even under a build to order category.)
• Atlas supposedly has some scale passenger car molds and F59PH diesel.

Obviously, there is more to the list that includes accessories, freight cars and semi-scale steam and diesel locos.  But what I would really like to know is...  who has the tooling for the beautifully detailed K-Line scale Hudson and 2-6-4 Tank Engine???

IMO, it would be great to see either of these very popular and detailed locos back in production and available for sale.

I would venture to say that there is a large amount of tooling in China that we do not   know about. For instance what happened to Bill Bensons Right of Way Industries tooling. Best that I can guess is that either Sunset Models or MTH suppliers have it. I also saw some used O gauge boxcars on Nicholas Table that were marked with the name of a totally different manufacturer like UMB Made in China or something similar. They looked identical to Lionel box cars. Anyone know anything about that company? There is also the Industrial Rail tooling which reportedly Atlas has. 

Bottom line-no shortage of tooling with the Chicoms manufacturers.