Dual functions for 153ir controller

It could be done using a second slave relay operated by the 153IR output. This second relay would actuate the 022 switch mechanism to throw the switch.

You would also need a trigger to tell the 153IR when the train is all the way in the siding; maybe an isolated rail on the last 2 feet or so of the siding. Is this what the 153IR will sense? Is the siding hidden from normal view?

The 153ir is the trigger at the very end of the siding.

Formerly, it controlled the switch just fine.  Why can’t I merely add in the dwarf signal so that it controls both?

In thinking about this a bit more (and assuming the 153IR is going to sense train presence in the siding) this may not be the best way to do what (I think) you want.

A simple DPDT relay actuated by an isolated rail as above, can switch your signal with one set of contacts, and throw the 022 back to the mainline with the other set. When you move the train out it untriggers and the signal reverts to normal. The 022 will throw to the siding when the train hits the anti-derail rail. In this case it will be important to set things up so that the train is for sure off the isolated rail BEFORE it gets to the 022!

The relay could also be made to throw the 022 to the siding once the isolated siding rail is clear, when the train is moving out. In this case you would probably want the isolated rail to be only the last few inches of siding track, and your train length must be limited accordingly!

Rod

Thanks Rod.

Suppose I connected the no connection of the 153 to the red light on the dwarf and also to the proper post of the 022 switch, and the nc connection to the green light on the dwarf.

Would that impact both the 022 and the dwarf?

Without seeing your present wiring setup, it sounds like it should work fine. I was not clear on your setup. You have nothing to lose by giving it a try!

Rod

There are different  versions of the 153IR  See previous articles.   The input A/U can be reversed also.  reversing whether the NO/NC are ground U or power A.

Your hook up note looks good to me.  If you want detailed info, keep reading.

I hope I explain this correctly, best advice.   An AC voltmeter would be good to test how the 153 IR switches and output connections work.

Since it is hooked up to run the O22 formarly from what I read,   make sure that is now working.

A quick test if re-connecting.   Hook the 153IR to auxilliary power in the A/U inputs and set to use auxilliary power.  The O22 should only need 1 wire from the correct Left or Right switch motor connection to get the switch to activate from straight to curved.   Before hooking it up to the 153IR, have the switch straight and ground the wire on outer rail.  It should switch to curved.  When you know witch post it is and working as expected, connect the wire to 153IR NO connection.  Test by triggering the IR.  If it works good.  If not  switch the A/U input.  Test again.  It should be working.   When working NO and NC connections are providing ground, outer rail connections.   Now hook up the dwarf.   

To get the dwarf signal to work, the two wires for the color bulbs go into NC and NO contacts grounding to turn on/off when switched.   2 wires. switch and light, can go in the NO connection as needed.  The third wire for the signal is center rail power.   Or wire it to the 153IR ACC power output next to the NC/NO connections  Test.  If no bulbs power up and hooked up to the 153IR for power , switch to power wire to the 153IR ACC ground output and test again.   If an older metal body dwarf signal, be careful to electrically isolate it,  since when done the body could be center rail power, depending on the design.

I don't know if the IR153 body is grounded to the internal board, but I would keep it electrically isolated also.  Don't let it touch the outer rail.

That’s terrific!  Thanks for the detailed instructions.

That’s one of the reasons that our hobby is so great: we can dabble into different arenas, try things, move things around and keep playing until it’s where we want it to be.  Of course it might not work out, leading to frustration.  That’s why this forum is so great: someone has usually experienced our issue and can offer great advice.

cpasam; Notwithstanding Val's detailed instructions above, I think your situation is pretty straightforward. You said the 153IR already operates the 022 switch in both directions I believe. I assume to do this the NC & NO outputs are connected to the outer two (of the 3) 022 switch housing terminals , and the return is through the switch and the track to ground. If so, the relay common in the 153IR must be powered from the 153IR internal hot connection to complete the circuit; right so far?

The dwarf signal is a simple 3 wire device. Two of the 3 wires go to each of the two red/green bulbs, and the third is common. So by simply connecting the red and green signal wires to the same 2 outer terminals on the 022, and the common wire to track outside ground (or the middle 022 terminal) you are done. It should work just fine with no further fussing or concern. If it turns out the red/green indicators work backwards, simply swap the wires to the 022 terminals. Easy peasy.

Rod

Thanks, Rod: that really does sound simple.

Actually only one wire from the 153 is currently connected to the switch, utilizing the non-derail function of the 022 instead of the 153 to change back the switch direction.

I see no reason why your suggestion would change anything, and would be easy to implement and certainly simplify the project  

I’m still getting all the pieces together and will let you know how things work out.

Update to the dual function use of the 153ir sensor:

All components are now on site.

1. The 153, in the very back end of the spur, is controlling a dwarf signal at the beginning of the spur, and

2. The 153, using just it’s “no” connector, is also moving the 022 at the beginning of the spur from straight to curved, at the same time the dwarf changes from green to red, when the train is fully inside the spur next to the 153.  All as anticipated to that point.

As the train moves out and clears the 153, the dwarf changes back to green, and the train exits using the non-derail function of the switch. Again, as anticipated.

Here’s the surprise: when the train makes its way around the layout and passes by the entrance to the spur from the other direction, the non derail changes the switch back to curved exactly as it should.  However, BOTH THE GREEN AND RED LIGHTS COME ON SIMULTANEOUSLY ON THE SWITCH CONTROLLER, with no apparent ill effect to operations.

Any thoughts?  I don’t think it’s doing any harm.

Thanks  

Sounds like the relay in the 153IR is holding the green dwarf light on in its untriggered state, as you would expect. And the red is being lit by the internals of the 022 when it switches to curved, just as it does at the switch remote control. This is what the 022 is supposed to do because of its internal slider switch. If this is the case I expect that once the switch is thrown to green again the red dwarf light goes out, right?

Rod

Yes, that’s correct. It has to do with the “no” feed from the 153 being connected to the switch side that controls the red light.

Like you said, it’s not likely to harm anything. Is the dwarf lit by bulbs or leds? It will likely get a bit toasty if they are bulbs.

It’s #6-12883

I’ll need to investigate further.

If it turns out to be bulbs, and you want something cooler, I can set you up with something like this led version:

I use several of them around the layout to indicate position of switches that are otherwise hard to see. Same easy 3 wire hookup; runs on AC or DC.

Rod

Thanks Rod: I should be good for now.

The project is now complete, and working well:

https://youtu.be/lwpQQKUKdoA?feature=shared

Nice work!