DZ 2500 vs DZ 1000

From what I have been told basically the biggest is that the 2500 is command compatible 

Slow motion throw, one button operation and command capable. It also has a smaller footprint.

You will find the CORRECT answer here.

Thanks guys Rich nailed it. It will take awhile to get out to speed.

The 2500 has more features, but in my experience can be more finicky and prone to failures.

Use some protection against transients if it’s near an accessory that might generate spikes (solenoids, vibrotors, etc.).

PROF CHAOS, PLEASE ELABORATE ON YOUR EXPERIENCES

I love my 2500 when they work.   All mine are connected to the data driver module and I can control them via cab2/cab1.  Older models, made like 10 years ago fail often for many reasons.  Newer ones are the best but there seems to slight variations with production runs.  Some are slower than others.

as always Dennis at Zstuff backs his products and will bend over backwards to make things right 

On my prior layout, I installed DZ 2500s on all (15) of my my Ross Switches as well as the data driver to control via TMCC / Legacy. My experience was not good at all. I could not get the data driver to work reliably even after several returns and repairs by DZ. I removed the data driver and installed Lionel SC-2s to control the 2500s via TMCC / Legacy. Many of the 2500s sometimes froze and would not move at all until powered down and then up. many were sent back to DZ for tweaking and or repair. It was very frustrating. When I moved and built a new layout, I replaced the 2500s with 1000s controlled by the SC-2s and am very happy that I did. Others may have better experiences or maybe the problems I had with the 2500s has now been solved. I can only report what I went through.

It's incredible how much 1st hand knowledge is on this forum & there is nothing like knowledge gained thru experience. So unless something has changed drastically with the 2500's it seems like 1000 is the way to go along with the SC2.  Maybe you loose some control features & aesthetics but a lot less headaches !  It's to bad Z Stuff can't get a grip on it.   

Jerry,

- Definitely wire the layout to accomodate BOTH Legacy/TMCC & DCS  ! 

- Do a Search on OGR Forum for Barrys Ten Commandments.

I have used both the DZ1000's & 2500's, my comparison.

DZ1000

• Slightly less expensive
• Easier to wire, 3 wires at switch, 3 wires at button
• VERY reliable & durable
• IF going to use on a layout with Command Control for switches, the SC3 modules required for Lionel are very expensive and require many, 4 switches/module.  The DCS system is less expensive and 10 switches/module.
• Can be tricky to secure on layout, (tendency is to overtighten, motor MUST be flat for proper operation.

DZ2500

• Huge cost advantage when installing in a command control layout.  The DZ2501 Data Drive eliminates the need of the Lionel SC3 modules.  (On the last layout I installed saved over $1100).
• More wiring, 6 wires at the switch, 3 at the button.  Note: When using the Data Driver, a wire used as the program wire (blue) is dedicated  as a buss line connected to all the switches.  IF a problem occurs at ONE switch ALL the switches will be inoperable.  EASY FIX, group the switches into groups of 4 or 5, then branch the buss wire of into a single buss for each group, put a toggle switch on the buss wire.  Then when a problem DOES occur, turning the toggle switches off one at a time will help identify which group the problem is in.
• The DZ2500 once installed is the ideal switch motor for a command control layout IMO.

Jerry Del posted:

PROF CHAOS, PLEASE ELABORATE ON YOUR EXPERIENCES

Hi Jerry -

I had a DZ-2500 on adjacent on a bus to a Lionel mail pickup (solenoid-driven). The DZ-2500 failed repeatedly. I then added some suppression (a TVS diode and RC snubber in parallel), and the DZ-2500 never failed again.

Inductive loads (basically any coil) can generate a voltage spike when they shut off. My supposition is that those spikes can damage the DZ-2500 microcontroller, which has no extra protection on its power or inputs.

I have only had 1 DZ2500 go bad and Dennis fixed it for me at York. Like others have said Dennis does support his products. As I understand there where issues with early versions of the DZ2500 but the current version, DZ2500C has resolved them. Z-Stuff will replace the older versions for a nominal fee. I prefer the slow speed operation of the 2500 over the snap of the 1000. I am not using the non derail feature so there is no more wiring for the DZ2500 than there is for for the DZ1000. My 2500's are configured for LCS with data driver, DCS AIU, or pushbutton control panel.

Steve

Prof Chaos, could you send me a diagram of that hook up. I,m not sure where you connected them in the ckt. Also the not sure what a TVS diode & RC snubber is.  Email is in my Profile

Thanks 

Jerry 

OGR Webmaster posted:

You will find the CORRECT answer here.

There you go being practical and smart.  Straight from the horse's mouth!  :-)

Don(Cerritos) posted:

Jerry,

- Definitely wire the layout to accomodate BOTH Legacy/TMCC & DCS  ! 

- Do a Search on OGR Forum for Barrys Ten Commandments.

I have used both the DZ1000's & 2500's, my comparison.

DZ1000

• Slightly less expensive
• Easier to wire, 3 wires at switch, 3 wires at button
• VERY reliable & durable
• IF going to use on a layout with Command Control for switches, the SC3 modules required for Lionel are very expensive and require many, 4 switches/module.  The DCS system is less expensive and 10 switches/module.
• Can be tricky to secure on layout, (tendency is to overtighten, motor MUST be flat for proper operation.

DZ2500

• Huge cost advantage when installing in a command control layout.  The DZ2501 Data Drive eliminates the need of the Lionel SC3 modules.  (On the last layout I installed saved over $1100).
• More wiring, 6 wires at the switch, 3 at the button.  Note: When using the Data Driver, a wire used as the program wire (blue) is dedicated  as a buss line connected to all the switches.  IF a problem occurs at ONE switch ALL the switches will be inoperable.  EASY FIX, group the switches into groups of 4 or 5, then branch the buss wire of into a single buss for each group, put a toggle switch on the buss wire.  Then when a problem DOES occur, turning the toggle switches off one at a time will help identify which group the problem is in.
• The DZ2500 once installed is the ideal switch motor for a command control layout IMO.

Excellent synopsis of each device, Don!

I use DZ-2500's with a DZ2001 Data Wire Driver for operation under TMCC.  The early DZ-2500's I had were the "A" variant.  Most worked fine, the rest Dennis Zander replaced (he supports his products!).  I think the latest variant is "C".  It is much more reliable.

Keep in mind that a DZ-2001 Data Wire bus is limited to 75' in length.  That's not really big, especially if your bus meanders around the layout.   If you exceed that range, the DZ-2500s will start acting strangely.  The fix is using a second DZ-2001 to split the bus.

I will echo Don.  Once installed, the DZ-2500 is the ideal switch motor for a command controlled layout.

George

Thanks For All the Help.

HAPPY NEW YEAR