earliest evidence of a "railway" ... in 6th century BC ?

The 4" 8 1/2" standard goes back a lot further than people think; at least as far back as ancient Babylon.  Now you take Heron's steam turbine, run it through a set of reduction gears, and install it on one of those big cargo wagons...instant steam locomotive.  I'm sure someone must have at least thought about it. 

Ace, how do they know those groove were intentional and not just worn in with six hundred years of use?

Just my opinion, but I think you have been reading too may "old wives tails".

The early "wood rail roads" in England had the rails 5 feet apart, with the wheel flanges on the OUTSIDE of the wheels. Everything was working out fine for the horse drawn cars/wagons, until they added a curve. The poor horses simply could NOT pull the wagons around the curve with the flanges on the OUTSIDE of all the wheels.

Someone came up with the idea of putting the flanges on the INSIDE of all the wheels, but since they didn't have to move any of the wood rails, the track gauge suddenly was 4 feet, 8 and 1.2 inches BETWEEN the rails, instead of 5 feet OVER the outside of the rails.

Now you know the rest of the story.

If you read through the links given above, they discuss that specifically.  

There are some interesting theories about the origin of Standard Gauge possibly going back to Roman times, or at least being related to the engineering of horse-drawn carts:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

The historical tendency to place the wheels of horse-drawn vehicles approximately 5 feet (1,500 mm) apart probably derives from the width needed to fit a carthorse in between the shafts.

They have similar tracks/ruts on the island of Malta, which may predate those at the top of the thread. One set is even referred to as "Clapham Junction" because of the design complexity. No one agrees on what their function was, however.

http://www.cartrutsmalta.com/

Be serious, 

It is not a railroad but it is just the ruts that were left by the wooden wagons on a stone road. 

I doubt anybody ever thought of it as a railroad And there is no proof it ever was. 

Looks like a ancient alien episode.  

With respect you may have been reading too many "Erick Von Danekan" Chariots of the Gods books.

My brother who is an archeologist of ancient cultures said it is pretty common knowledge that Greek and Roman roads were so heavily used that ruts from the wheels wore into the surface stone of the road.

The Romans were the "Premier" builders of the ancient world. Their roads which still survive today were extraordinary engineered works involving many layers. They even topped them off with Asphalt which was not re-discovered or used again until the early 1900's. The stone which they used tended to be soft and could be "worked" 

I would love to think the Romans had a system like a "railroad" built into their roads. They did utilize and took advantage of the grooves in the roads as horses have good memories of the routes they use

Hope this helps

I also have a brother who is an archaeologist, in Britain. No kidding.

Certainly there were many ancient roads where ruts were created from the wear of wheels over an extended period of time. But there are some documented cases where the ruts appear to have been constructed deliberately to guide traffic.

The Diolkos road was used to transport boats over a narrow isthmus in Greece from about 600 BC. To move those relatively large loads, a "trackway" helped guide the wagons.

Please read the references originally listed before shooting me down.  

http://www.sciencenews.gr/docs/diolkos.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diolkos

I do not doubt what you say as I have a lot of respect for the Ancient Civilizations. They had great minds in their times too! I could see them constructing something to keep the wheels in the ruts so the horses could keep the wagons in motion with the fewist possible mishaps.

I have been all over Europe over the years and love the engineering feats of the Ancients.

When one sees what the Greeks and Romans constructed if leaves one awestruck, as well as what other civilizations have done too.

Most of the Ancient Roman roads are still intact the top asphalt layers are long gone. But these roads are pretty much intact and are still used in places. I walked on many of them around ROME!!!! 

I am not sure if they constructed something that would resemble a rail system. Although it wouldn't surprise me if they did!!!

I know that in Pompei they found streets where there were stone or concrete blocks in the street with openings spaced for wagon wheels. That way, the streets where people walked were elevated and kept cleaner and drier than they would have been if the wagon wheels hadn't been below street level.

If some bunch of whack-jobs hadn't torched the library at Alexandria....you'd be surprised at what they knew....and did !

The Greek Boat moving railway is well known and described - it also has pointwork to enable boats to pass one another, as for wooden wagonways  an 18th century example was uncovered during an archaeological dig on the site of a former shipyard in Newcastle upon Tyne - The September Railway Magazine has a short piece on it which you may find on line. Wooden Wagonways in England were known during the reign of Elizabeth 1st - born 1533, ascended to the Throne 1558 died 1603.  'Railways before George Stephenson' is worth trying to get a copy of if you are interested.

Interesting that the few naysayers on this thread do not want to acknowledge the engineering feats of the ancients - a modern case of misplaced hubris! 

Well the Ancient's were assisted by Extraterrestrials so.

But really,wouldn't surprise me one bit, they say the burning of the Library Of Alexandria set Humanity back 1000 years.

Many Constructions  and technological wonders of the Ancients  still go, and probably will go forever unsolved.

Sadly, this is very true. 

Religious "zealots" most likely destroyed the library at Alexandria.  Unfortunately, there are those anti-science zealots in our own present-day society who would destroy current scientific knowledge if they could get away with it! 

There are a number of accounts blaming several for the burning of the library over a number of years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_at_Alexandria

Not sure of who was to blame but Carl Sagan noted that had all the knowledge there remained intact mankind could possibly be at least 1500 years more technologically advanced than we are now.

However, if the library contained all the knowledge left to us by extraterrestrials all that was lost was knowledge on how to stack rocks!

Jerry

I thought the Ancients WERE Extraterrestrials.  You don't really believe that descended from monkey business do you?

Descended from a monkey...naw...it was another offshoot and a very distant relative,and not one invited to family reunions.   It seems more plausible than extraterrestials, to me, and besides there is that documentation on that monkey relative on Borneo that

lines up cane stalks on stones to guide rolled fruit on a "rail" track....

These guys perhaps? 

The Ancient Greeks knew about what harnessing steam could do as there are numerous artifacts and devices used that were run by steam.

Something big that could run a primitive engine I don't know.

I do know the Romans had boilers in homes that circulated heated water for bathing and providing heat on cold days. I have asked my brother who is an Anthropologist/archeologist to look into anything they may have done to construct an operating engine of sorts. I will post when I find out something.

That would be the ancient Greek known as Hero who invented what is thought to be the worlds first steam powered engine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile

http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museu...ns/steamengine2.html

He apparently didn't think it had any practical uses other than that of a toy. Several operating models have been built of the device and it does work.

Jerry

By installing static blades in Heron's "turbine", you could get it to function as an engine....able to generate torque.   Placed in a gear train, which the Romans had, you now have a prime mover.  OTOH, I doubt they got to the point of developing traction motors.  

I would hate to think of the numbering system for Roman engines.  For example, what if the number of a certain famous locomotive had to be written MMMCMLXXXV ?  Try fitting that on the side of the cab!

Aaron

I wouldn't doubt it if someone in Ancient Rome had thought or even written plans for a moveable locomotive!!!