Electrification of Caltrain commuter trains

Interesting. Wonder were they will get all that additional electrical power from.

Electrification is proposed as part of the CA high speed train project.  I suppose that if contracts have been signed then the Caltrain electrification may move forward even if high speed rail does not.  Caltrain trains are full and there is more demand than capacity many days of the week.

 This will be a big bucks project.  Grade separation will be very important.  Caltrain hits a person or vehicle on the tracks about once a month.  (Unfortunately, many of these events are suicide by train.)

As for power, you should see all the wind power farms that are going up across the state.  The same winds that are driving the wild fires are turning the turbines.

NH Joe

Very interesting. Heavy rail transit with 25 kV 60 Hz overhead electrification is coming to California.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/...ation-contracts.html

‘The Caltrain Modernisation Programme represents the single most transformative project in Caltrain's 150-year history’, said Jim Hartnett, CEO of the Peninsula Corridor Joint Powers Board.

I was surprised to hear that Caltrain has a 150-year history.

I would run this on my fastrack or my ho track... with sound please.  Perhaps along the way as it meanders about the layout, I could fire iconic rock sounds such as "California Dreamin'"  and "I wish they all could be California..."  Etc..

Ace posted:

Very interesting. Heavy rail transit with 25 kV 60 Hz overhead electrification is coming to California.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/...ation-contracts.html

‘The Caltrain Modernisation Programme represents the single most transformative project in Caltrain's 150-year history’, said Jim Hartnett, CEO of the Peninsula Corridor Joint Powers Board.

I was surprised to hear that Caltrain has a 150-year history.

Wonder why there was a "Caltrain" prior to the meeting of the Transcontinental Railroad in 1869? Did California even have any "railroads" in the LA Basin back in 1866?

The electrification of CalTrain is a great thing!  Matt

CalTrain is celebrating 150 years of Peninsula commute service history...starting with the San Francisco and San Jose RR in 1867...that's how.

Matt 

New Haven Joe posted:

Electrification is proposed as part of the CA high speed train project.  I suppose that if contracts have been signed then the Caltrain electrification may move forward even if high speed rail does not.  Caltrain trains are full and there is more demand than capacity many days of the week.

 This will be a big bucks project.  Grade separation will be very important.  Caltrain hits a person or vehicle on the tracks about once a month.  (Unfortunately, many of these events are suicide by train.)

As for power, you should see all the wind power farms that are going up across the state.  The same winds that are driving the wild fires are turning the turbines.

NH Joe

NH Joe,

I don’t think this Peninsula Corridor Electrification Project (PCEP) of the Caltrain Modernization (CalMod) Program will be going for full grade separation like the proposed California High Speed Rail (CHSR). Here is a link to an official video about PCEP that talks about grade crossings with shorter wait times. I also read that they studied full grade separation & found it to be too expensive.

Also, I have been following this project for many years & to the extent I still remember what I read, unlike CHSR, PCEP will allow Union Pacific trains to still run on part of the electrified network after electrification, between midnight & 5am (& at other times with some restrictions) & the overhead contact systems & catenary are supposed to have adequate clearances to allow even double-stack intermodal freight trains to run on these tracks.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

‘The Caltrain Modernisation Programme represents the single most transformative project in Caltrain's 150-year history’, said Jim Hartnett, CEO of the Peninsula Corridor Joint Powers Board.

http://thealamedan.org/news/al...riving-ferry-service

On October 2, 1866, an inspection party visited the Western Pacific's tracks in today's Niles Canyon. The Western Pacific's inability to finish this railroad through the canyon and on to Sacramento led to a decision to run the transcontinental railroad into Oakland, giving the East Bay ferries a near monopoly on getting passengers into San Francisco.

So I guess this was Caltrain 150 years ago, building the first failed railroad in California. LOL

Oops, apologies for the thread drift.

OK, this in an EARTHQUAKE zone!  In case of a quake, DIESELS can provide service, even at slow speeds for evacuation trains; and if needed, could be run off the CalTrain service zone.   OVERHEAD could be DEAD!

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. Wonder were they will get all that additional electrical power from.

Is it possible with dynamic braking to put the" heat" (electrical current) created back into the overhead electrical grid ?. 

In a perfect world  on double track. a train braking  could supply power to a train  coming up the hill in the opposite direction.??

Gregg posted:

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. Wonder were they will get all that additional electrical power from.

Is it possible with dynamic braking to put the" heat" (electrical current) created back into the overhead electrical grid ?. 

In a perfect world  on double track. a train braking  could supply power to a train  coming up the hill in the opposite direction.??

I believe the regenerative braking only worked with DC, such as the Milwaukee Road electrics. I know that regenerative braking is NOT used on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, at least it wasn't with the EMD AEM-7 electric locomotives.

Hot Water posted:

I believe the regenerative braking only worked with DC, such as the Milwaukee Road electrics. I know that regenerative braking is NOT used on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, at least it wasn't with the EMD AEM-7 electric locomotives.

Modern AC railroad electrification is fully capable of regenerative braking with appropriately engineered locomotives. Siemens ACS-64 locomotives which replaced the AEM-7's have regenerative braking capability.

Amtrak Siemens ACS-64

Energy feedback into the catenary system can sum up to 10 –15% energy savings per year ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_ACS-64

... the new locomotives are more energy-efficient than those that they replace, and lack dynamic braking grids in favor of 100% regenerative braking, depending on grid receptiveness. Energy generated from the brake may also be utilized to meet HEP needs, further reducing current draw from the grid.

Amtrak has 70 ACS-64 units and SEPTA has 13 units.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

OK, this in an EARTHQUAKE zone!  In case of a quake, DIESELS can provide service, even at slow speeds for evacuation trains; and if needed, could be run off the CalTrain service zone.   OVERHEAD could be DEAD!

Dominic,

So California's earthquakes love diesel locomotives so much that they would mess up the overhead contact systems stranding electric trains but leave the tracks intact for diesel locomotives to save the day?

Japan is also an earthquake prone region but still are famous for their Shinkansen / Bullet trains.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan 

Hot Water posted:

Gregg posted:

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. Wonder were they will get all that additional electrical power from.

Is it possible with dynamic braking to put the" heat" (electrical current) created back into the overhead electrical grid ?. 

In a perfect world  on double track. a train braking  could supply power to a train  coming up the hill in the opposite direction.??

I believe the regenerative braking only worked with DC, such as the Milwaukee Road electrics. I know that regenerative braking is NOT used on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, at least it wasn't with the EMD AEM-7 electric locomotives.

Jack,

AC locomotives are capable of transferring regenerative braking energy back to the overhead contact systems not only for the traction needs of other trains but also back to the electric grid for residential or commercial customers but the grid has to be capable of receiving this energy. I read the regions where the grid is unable to receive this energy, it is dissipated as heat onboard  like diesel electric locomotives.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan 

Imagine what this would have been like with Southern Pacific electric-powered equipment.  No, not the old red cars from the East Bay, but modern Espee electric engines or m-u cars.  I have always been impressed by the operation of the Peninsula train service, both by Espee and by CalTrain, and the additional capabilities of electric power should make it even better.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

 

Negatives:

1.  Each car has to pass FRA inspections, VS just locomotives on engine hauled.

2.  Each new car seems to hold fewer customers than the older ones.

3.  Each cab car looks like it has less crash protection than current locomotives or some cab cars.

Dominic,

Here is some information I found for the Negatives you listed.

1. Here is the excerpt from Peninsula Corridor Electrification Project (PCEP) Final Environmental Impact Report (FEIR) document.

Caltrain has received a waiver from the FRA that would allow modern European EMU equipment to operate on the Caltrain Peninsula Corridor provided that temporal separation is provided between the light-weight EMUs and heavy freight trains (this is referred to as the FRA waiver).9 However, as discussed in the next section, Caltrain assumes that temporal separation will not be required for the Proposed Project.

Waiver of current FRA Tier 1 passenger vehicle requirement (49 CFR 238 et seq.) requires that the waiver demonstrate an equivalent level of safety. That can be demonstrated through vehicle design criteria, track improvements, signal improvements, operational limitations or othe means. Thus, there is no specific regulatory requirement that mandates temporal separation for
mixed use operation of EMUs and FRA Compliant equipment. Caltrain’s  petition submittals (Caltrain 2009) demonstrated that the individual EMU design features, using European rail safety standards, combined with PTC, alone would provide an
equivalent level of safety to current FRA Tier 1 Standards. The Engineering Task Force (ETF) 2011 report to the FRA’s Railroad Safety Advisory Committee(RSAC) (FRA 2011) concerning alternative compliant equipment demonstrates that design
criteria for such equipment can provide an equivalent level of safety to current Tier 1 Standards and that temporal separation would only be an option in the event that a rail operator could not demonstrate the equivalent level of safety through design features. Caltrain would not be the first commuter rail authority to obtain approval to operate non-standard passenger equipment without temporal separation. The Denton County Transportation Authority received a FRAWaiver to operate alternative compliant Stadler GTW 2/6 Diesel Multiple Units (DMUs) without temporal separation.

2. The reason the cars have doors at different heights is for them to be compatible with the station platform heights of the proposed California High Speed Rail (CHSR), a requirement with a fancy name “Blended System”. Caltrain currently has low platform height (8” from Top-Of-Rail). CHSR commissioned a study, a few years ago of features of high-speed train sets currently in use in different countries & determined that for their needs & for the entire train (not just the lower level of double-deck trains) to be compatible with Americans with Disability Act (ADA), they would go with a single-deck train with a high platform. Since Caltrain & CHSR would share a few stations at San Francisco, Millbrae & San Jose, Caltrain decided to go with 4’ station height from Top-Of-Rail as part of the CalMod program. 

So now these aluminum Stadler EMUs that Caltrain is buying are no longer the same as the standard European units since there are 4 extra doors at different heights. Until Caltrain increases the platform heights to 48”, the high doors will be locked & there will be seats beside them.

3. Refer to 1

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

It's apparently going to be a modified Stadler KISS -- http://www.railwayage.com/inde...r-but-no-flirts.html

Which I found here for sale in HO:  https://www.reynaulds.com/prod.../Liliput/133926.aspx

And the modelling company is here (all german): http://liliput.de/en/products/...em/1068-l133926.html

( didn't really read all the details in any this...   and ok the paints all wrong too but maybe a "fun weekend" project for the early adopter or just not worry about that)

Personally I'd like one ... 

At the risk of going a little off topic -- I found a video here of someone with the model:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S-Tj6sPJ-o

Using my unbelievable command of the german language (not) and google translator (wow!) -- what I read is that the model supports a 21 pin DCC decoder, and that this person added it themselves -- a ESU loksound decoder, and added their own "Austrian announcements and SIFA message".    They also recommend ZIMO speakers and related.  etc... as part of package  And given all that gave it a thumbs up & suggest for anyone's collection.  

Severn posted:

It's apparently going to be a modified Stadler KISS -- http://www.railwayage.com/inde...r-but-no-flirts.html

Which I found here for sale in HO:  https://www.reynaulds.com/prod.../Liliput/133926.aspx

And the modelling company is here (all german): http://liliput.de/en/products/...em/1068-l133926.html

( didn't really read all the details in any this...   and ok the paints all wrong too but maybe a "fun weekend" project for the early adopter or just not worry about that)

Personally I'd like one ...

Severn,

I was aware of the HO models of the European KISS trains but the rendering of the Caltrain KISS looks different. I realize that the image I posted was just a rendering & the final trains could look different from the rendering but the front headlights & the 2 small windows (on either side of the large front window) look different from the European KISS trains.

I have no data to back up my opinion but I suspect the FRA crash requirements forced the front end of the Caltrain KISS EMUs to be different from the European version.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Faster and more frequent electric trains running on the Peninsula by 2020 seems ... optimistic?

I'm wondering about all the grade crossings on this route:

Caltrain/HSR Blended Grade Crossing and Traffic Analysis

One of the specific areas requiring definition is how the at‐grade crossings along the blended system will be improved. These improvements may range from traffic signal improvements to at‐grade crossing improvements to road closures to grade separations. Because the blended system will not operate at speeds greater than 110 mph, full grade separation is not required ...

The results of this study reveal that there is not a direct linear relationship between train service level changes and gate down time. Though it may seem intuitive that an increase in train traffic would result in a proportional increase in gate down time, the findings of this study show some departure from a purely linear relationship. In some cases, even with more trains, the gate down time is reduced. These outcomes result from having an advanced signal system and overlapping trains at crossings.

CalMod - Electrification and the Future of Caltrain

http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.c...grade-crossings.html
... rough cost per grade sep of $80 to $100 million. That seems to be the going rate, and it's not affordable in the short term; that's why grade separations will have to be done on a priority basis just as they have for the past century.

Bond issue anyone?  (to make all grade sep x-c'ings)

So the idea is for the HSR to use the Cal Train line to get into SFO?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

So the idea is for the HSR to use the Cal Train line to get into SFO?

High-speed rail chips in $713M for Caltrain electrification that could double ridership

Updated Aug 9, 2016

SACRAMENTO – Caltrain electrification and high-speed rail access to that corridor took its next-to-last funding step Tuesday when the California High-Speed Rail Authority unanimously approved $713 million for its share of funding for the nearly $2 billion project.

Construction on electrifying 50 miles of track between San Jose and San Francisco is expected to begin next year ...

Innotrans is a train fair held in Berlin, Germany, every other year. The most recent show was held last month, Sep 20 – 23 for industry-folks & Sep 24 & 25 for the general public. Stadler had a scale model of their KISS double-deck EMU similar to the ones Caltrain ordered for their electrified system.

These are just my opinion.

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

I like the way it looks.   I see nothing but pluses here.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

OK, this in an EARTHQUAKE zone!  In case of a quake, DIESELS can provide service, even at slow speeds for evacuation trains; and if needed, could be run off the CalTrain service zone.   OVERHEAD could be DEAD!

If you look at the design of overhead power poles and structures, they actually are set up pretty well to handle earthquakes. The poles and structures are metal and because of that, they can sway and not go over, and the wires likewise are suspended and they can sway as well. obviously, if the fault is right under a power structure/pole, it could topple, but if the fault is that close to the tracks the tracks themselves are going to be ripped out of alignment or pitched or whatnot...my guess would be in an earthquake the tracks would be in worse shape than the power distribution. Usually wires go down in things like ice storms or when the wire gets snagged by the pantograph or some kind of train has something sticking up that nails it (kind of like the Lionel Giraffe car if the trip didn't work right *lol*). 

One wonders about the operational scenario for these kinds of thing in the event of earthquakes.  Are the tracks "isolated"?  Are the power systems?   Etc... maybe someone knows, it would be interesting.  

Japan has operated electric high-speed rail for decades and they cope with serious earthquakes. Railroads are not any more vulnerable to earthquake damage than a lot of other urban and transportation infrastructure.

Severn posted:

One wonders about the operational scenario for these kinds of thing in the event of earthquakes.  Are the tracks "isolated"?  Are the power systems?   Etc... maybe someone knows, it would be interesting.  

 

Severn,

Caltrain did consider the effects of earthquakes & here is the link to the chapter in their Environmental Impact Study that discusses soil liquefaction, landslides related to earthquakes. I did not have time to review the whole chapter to find out what mitigation measures Caltrain considered.

I had read elsewhere that the Shinkansen / Bullet Trains are immediately brought to a halt in case of earthquakes.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

http://www.caltrain.com/Assets...FEIR/3.6+Geology.pdf

I also found this -- http://www.caltrain.com/rideri...ffectOnCaltrain.html

I read through the doc above which is interesting.  But what I was hoping to see was a table that had each seismic event range of significance that could effect operation -- and then next to it in another column -- "What we do to mitigate it."

Or something like that...

And getting at the post 2 ago -- it would be interesting if there were any comparative studies done against other railroads that operate regularly in earthquake zones.  I bet of course there are -- that sounds like something that's possibly been produced 10 times over by paid consultants!

Anyway I hope I don't sound negative:  I do understand that short of these things floating through the air jetson like, the risk will never be 0.

Severn posted:

One wonders about the operational scenario for these kinds of thing in the event of earthquakes.  Are the tracks "isolated"?  Are the power systems?   Etc... maybe someone knows, it would be interesting.  

 

Somehow, I don't think it would matter much:

Rusty

California has a earthquake section of the building code. Everytime there is a major earthquake in the world the code is updated. The bridge code for California is also different as it is designed around surviving an earthquake. I believe that California is the only state with earthquakes as a major driver of the construction codes. There are also requirements for existing buildings depending on their use. A deadline that is come up in the next 10 years or so has to do with hospitals. Most are currently being torn down and replaced to bring them into compliance. Schools were done years ago.  

Railroads hold up well in an earthquake because they are flexible. If they are knocked out of alignment they are easily realigned and leveled.  The big issue is bridges. They all have to be inspected after an earthquake.  Even a large earthquake is a local event. Go fifty or sixty miles from the center and ther will be minimal damage.  This allows neighboring communities to provide support to an area affected by an earthquake.  In the 1906 San Francisco earthquake both the Southern Pacific and the Key Route had extensive ferryboat operations. Free ferry service was immediately started between San Francisco and Oakland, which was largely uneffected.  With in 36 hours everyone in San Francisco who wanted to leave had traveled to Oakland or San Jose. It must be remembered the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco was primarily a fire event, not an earthquake. That earthquake was centered around Santa Rosa, which was flattened. 

The BART system has earthquake detection systems which detect an earthquake prior to the ground starting to shake by 10 to 30 seconds. When this alarm is triggered all the trains come to an immediate stop.  What happens next depends on the location and severity of the earthquake.  But in most cases the trains start to move under manual control at 10 mph inspected the track for any damage.  When the train gets to the point where the train ahead of it was stopped it then may proceed at track speed. 

Major earthquakes are a rare happening.  In any one location a major earthquake every 50 years would be unusually frequent. By having buildings and other structures properly designed there is little impact beyond the initial excitement. The problem is old buildings, which there getting to be few of in California due to earthquake code enforcement. 

As far as Caltrain goes, that track has been there 150 years now and has been through two major earthquakes without any major problems. The overhead wire system is flexible and will probably sustain little damage.   Loss of power for a short time is a possibility, but the generation of power in the west is scattered over 5 or 6 states and the transmission lines are flexible and not subject to a lot of earthquake damage.   In the past loss of power was usually due to transformers and circuit breakers being knocked over at local substations, but they are now tied down and should meet the current earthquake code.  There is very little loss of life associated with a west coast earthquake. Tornados and other weather events are much more frequent and dangerous.  

In an earthquake, the real problem likely would be the physical infrastructure, as others have pointed out, especially bridges. One of the things that makes earthquakes tricky is they are like snowflakes, no two are alike, and one of the reasons earthquake building codes change from what I know (besides what they decode in the lab) is that each earthquake adds a new twist (pun not intended) to how earthquakes work.

In other words, whether you run by Diesel or overhead electrical power,odds are they all would be affected pretty much the same way ie a bridge might be out, something fell across the tracks, track shifted and misaligned, etc. 

Every succeeding generation of train looks less and less like a train.

Excuse me if I don't get all worked up over those hideous things.

I seriously doubt I would have become a railfan if I were born in the last 20 years.

Really?  I rather like them.   You know its all about variety, and all that.

Saw this article & the following images on the Railway Gazette news website, from 2 weeks ago. The Caltrain electrification project was inaugurated. Loved the looks of what might have been the cake, in 1 of the pictures.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/...rify-caltrain-1.html

d

Rusty Traque posted:

Severn posted:

One wonders about the operational scenario for these kinds of thing in the event of earthquakes.  Are the tracks "isolated"?  Are the power systems?   Etc... maybe someone knows, it would be interesting.  

 

Somehow, I don't think it would matter much:

Rusty

Was that an earthquake, or Godzilla?