Engine shorting on RCS double slip

If this is the scale PRR T1 Duplex, that's a known issue, and it'll short out on a lot more than just the DSS!  I have one that  I'm going to get the wheels tapered to solve the problem, trying to modify all the switches is way more than I signed up for!

I actually brought this up in a conversation with Steve at Ross, and he knew all about it.  He told me that Lionel knew about the issue with the wide blind drivers and released it anyway.  Mine shorts out on the DSS, the curved switches, and I about half the time on the out route of even the Regular 100/101 switches!

I've had to make these adjustments and all I can say is take it slow and one step at a time. Use a loose truck to gauge the smoothness of your alteration. I have ground too much at times and had to rebuild the parts. But, at least, your really railroading. Sort of kind of....

Enjoy!

I'm not going to go crazy on my switches, I'm going to fix the one or two problem locomotives I have.

I’ve had that issue with other switches and had to bevel the drivers to the extreme. I took a quick way, ran the engine upside down, and ground off the edge with a vacuum in place. Worked.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If this is the scale PRR T1 Duplex, that's a known issue, and it'll short out on a lot more than just the DSS!  I have one that  I'm going to get the wheels tapered to solve the problem, trying to modify all the switches is way more than I signed up for!

@cjack posted:

I’ve had that issue with other switches and had to bevel the drivers to the extreme. I took a quick way, ran the engine upside down, and ground off the edge with a vacuum in place. Worked.

As I mentioned, this engine has had the drivers beveled/tapered and runs well on all my other switches.  It just barely touches this spot on the double slip.  Maybe I'll try finger nail polish first.

I'd consider some kind of epoxy to insulate it in that case, it'll last longer than nail polish.

BTW, you didn't mention that you had already tapered the wheels.  How exactly did you do them?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd consider some kind of epoxy to insulate it in that case, it'll last longer than nail polish.

BTW, you didn't mention that you had already tapered the wheels.  How exactly did you do them?

Thank you on the epoxy recommendation.  If the nail polish works I will do that.

I said I had the "center drivers beveled and has no problems with other switches".  I guess beveled was the wrong word, although that means to cut at an angle.

The person who did it had the engine many months.  I did tell him I was not in a hurry, but it was way too long.  He took the engine apart so that there would be no metal shavings getting into the system. He had problems putting it back together, particularly the drive train.  Getting the drivers quartered correctly was one issue.

Anyway, Chuck's way is probably best as long as you are careful.

The driver quartering was specifically what I was concerned about.    I need to do something to mine as it's useless now on my layout.

What's wrong with the electrical tape you used?

Something like Scotch 33+ should stay put especially if you round off the ends and the diamond is clean.  That way if you have to replace it it will be easy as opposed to a coating of urethane or nail polish.  The black color should look OK too I would think.

John

@cjack posted:

I’ve had that issue with other switches and had to bevel the drivers to the extreme. I took a quick way, ran the engine upside down, and ground off the edge with a vacuum in place. Worked.

Chuck, exactly what amount of bevel did you do, and how far over on the driver did you go?  Is this a step bevel or just a light taper to the wheel?

I leaned on the edge which had a slight factory bevel of about 45 degrees with a sharp medium file for quite some time. Probably over to about 25% of the wheel tire flat area.  I had a vacuum cleaner going all the while very close to the filing and essentially all the bits where sucked away.

@cjack posted:

I leaned on the edge which had a slight factory bevel of about 45 degrees with a sharp medium file for quite some time. Probably over to about 25% of the wheel tire flat area.  I had a vacuum cleaner going all the while very close to the filing and essentially all the bits where sucked away.

Could someone please provide a sketch of the wheel showing a before and after contour. It is not clear to me where the bevel is being made.  Thanks.

Would the material being removed be magnetic?  

If so that would really help in capturing the debris along with the vacuum.

On a similar note in 2r,  I have three T-1 locos, an S-1 and a Q parked until a new batch of special switches is delivered.  I tried to sneak in some Atlas #5 turnouts.  They have a limited ability.

There are so many variables, the best a manufacturer can do is really bevel the problem drivers. I had the problem with a Lionel engine and Lionel a Fastrack switch.
Here’s a picture of factory beveled drivers.

I have the sense that the scale T1 Duplex is going to take more of a bevel to avoid shorting on the Ross switches, the blind drivers are really wide!  Also, with a rigid frame, the blind drivers in the middle really get quite a ways toward the middle of the curve, even on O72 or larger curves.  It would be great to actually see what the beveled drivers on the T1 Duplex look like.

Chuck, Thanks for the pic. This helps me a lot.  Pat B.

What we need is a before picture showing how much wider the two center axle drivers are compared to the flanged drivers on the 1st and 4th axles. You can then see how much is needed to take off.  I had my drivers fixed over a decade ago, but if I remember correctly this is what needs to be done.

@CAPPilot posted:

What we need is a before picture showing how much wider the two center axle drivers are compared to the flanged drivers on the 1st and 4th axles. You can then see how much is needed to take off.  I had my drivers fixed over a decade ago, but if I remember correctly this is what needs to be done.

Ron, Great illustration. This really helps me a lot.  Thanks, Pat B.

Ron, that illustration is more like what I expected would have to be done to prevent shorting on the switches.  I'm afraid the amount that Chuck shows may not be enough for what's happening on my layout.