G scale help, switch tracks and reverse loops

Are you going to use track power? In that case I would not start with complicating things by using reversing loops.

Even if not using track power I would not rely on switches being thrown by the train. Why not using a dog-bone layout?

Regards

Fred

sncf231e posted:

Are you going to use track power? In that case I would not start with complicating things by using reversing loops.

Even if not using track power I would not rely on switches being thrown by the train. Why not using a dog-bone layout?

Regards

Fred

Thanks Fred, the problem is I don't have the width for a return section of track, plus the cost of the additional track is going to be fairly high. 

As far as track power or not, I'm open to suggestions.

samdjr74 posted:

sncf231e posted:

 

Thanks Fred, the problem is I don't have the width for a return section of track, plus the cost of the additional track is going to be fairly high. 

As far as track power or not, I'm open to suggestions.

I only have experience with track power (and live steam). I know many people like on-board power in the locomotives (and possibly with RC control). 

I looked at sunset valley track and found the cost of 2 switches is about the same as 36 feet of track; are you planning to have a longer track between the 2 loops?

Regards

Fred

sncf231e posted:

samdjr74 posted:

sncf231e posted:

 

Thanks Fred, the problem is I don't have the width for a return section of track, plus the cost of the additional track is going to be fairly high. 

As far as track power or not, I'm open to suggestions.

I only have experience with track power (and live steam). I know many people like on-board power in the locomotives (and possibly with RC control). 

I looked at sunset valley track and found the cost of 2 switches is about the same as 36 feet of track; are you planning to have a longer track between the 2 loops?

Regards

Fred

Basically it's a 100'x100' L/J shaped run so I'd be well over the 36 feet. However, I've been watching some video's on Piko and it seems that their switches are somewhat mechanically automatic with a spring. Again, this is just what I've read and I've never seen one in action.

I am envious. I have long loved G scale. Being a teacher by profession and living in a small town where back yards are easily traversed I have hesitated to build a G scale pike for fear of vandalism. A G scale modeler during a visit looked at my available space and said bluntly, "stick to O. You don't have the room!". Good luck with yours! 

Michael Hokkanen posted:

I am envious. I have long loved G scale. Being a teacher by profession and living in a small town where back yards are easily traversed I have hesitated to build a G scale pike for fear of vandalism. A G scale modeler during a visit looked at my available space and said bluntly, "stick to O. You don't have the room!". Good luck with yours! 

Vandalism will always be a concern but keeping the trains locked up when not in use and using cheaper buildings may help any blow the layout might take. 

The other nice thing about my back yard is it's relatively flat so the runs should be nice and smooth for the most part.

Hello & Welcome to the world of G scale...

What type of train will you be running?

As much as l am not a fan of Batteries, your dream will be best executed with battery power and  "Y's" at the end of your straights leading into your  loop.  Unless you plan on running simple 0-4-0's and like rolling stock, you will need a fairly large reversing loop. See curve minimum for your specific locomotive.

djacobsen posted:

Hello & Welcome to the world of G scale...

What type of train will you be running?

As much as l am not a fan of Batteries, your dream will be best executed with battery power and  "Y's" at the end of your straights leading into your  loop.  Unless you plan on running simple 0-4-0's and like rolling stock, you will need a fairly large reversing loop. See curve minimum for your specific locomotive.

Thanks!

In a perfect world I'd love to run a Forney for a small passenger line and a Shay for the larger outer loop. As far as curves go, I think the minimum would be 6' but most would be 8' 

If You use LGB locomotives, most will operate on a 4' diameter circle, but larger circles are easier on the wheels and track.  I believe the HLW Forney's will operate on a small circle of track also, giving you a choice of 1:24 and or LGB -1:22.5/gummy scale to choose from for rolling stock.

djacobsen posted:

If You use LGB locomotives, most will operate on a 4' diameter circle, but larger circles are easier on the wheels and track.  I believe the HLW Forney's will operate on a small circle of track also, giving you a choice of 1:24 and or LGB -1:22.5/gummy scale to choose from for rolling stock.

Good info, thanks. I was trying to find minimum curves per locomotive but didn't have much luck. I know in O , there are hard limits, (M10000 needs 072 for example). But finding that data for G seems to be difficult.

My garden railway is a single track with a reverse loop at each end.  I do run battery power which makes operation quite simple.  But when I was still running track power I used LGB reverse loop modules.  They are a no brainer to install.  

Here is one supplier's ad.

https://www.onlytrains.com/mod...qEAQYASABEgILCfD_BwE

My switch tracks or turnouts as I prefer to call them are spring loaded.  I tried using the LGB manual switch throws but being outdoors, even they are not bullet proof.  So what I did was to buy some small springs.  Home Depot has them in an assorted pack.  Most of the springs in this pack are too stiff, but there are a few that are just right.  

All of my rolling stock is fitted with metal wheels and some of it, the field railway cars, is also weighted with some extra lead strips.  Keeping the turnout clean is important to reliable operation.  After a rain, I may have to brush some debris out of the points or away from the springs.   

Dan Padova posted:

My garden railway is a single track with a reverse loop at each end.  I do run battery power which makes operation quite simple.  But when I was still running track power I used LGB reverse loop modules.  They are a no brainer to install.  

Here is one supplier's ad.

https://www.onlytrains.com/mod...qEAQYASABEgILCfD_BwE

My switch tracks or turnouts as I prefer to call them are spring loaded.  I tried using the LGB manual switch throws but being outdoors, even they are not bullet proof.  So what I did was to buy some small springs.  Home Depot has them in an assorted pack.  Most of the springs in this pack are too stiff, but there are a few that are just right.  

All of my rolling stock is fitted with metal wheels and some of it, the field railway cars, is also weighted with some extra lead strips.  Keeping the turnout clean is important to reliable operation.  After a rain, I may have to brush some debris out of the points or away from the springs.   

Thanks Dan, great info. One thing I need to ask, I assume when you mention battery power or track power you mean what's powering the train, correct? How reliable is battery power in general and how long does a train run on a charge?

Hi Sam

I started the train in the yard project last year. (It' a small Layout) I went at it full time hard charging. I knew nothing about 2 rail DC running. And even though I was always  studying hard I screwed up by the numbers regularly.

I also wanted reversing loops . After all the dust settled in the planning I went with two separate loops and no reversing loops.

I failed on the learning curve when it comes to the reverse loops. I came to the conclusion they were a PITA.

Just me and my opinion only.

I used all LGB brass track and started with the idea of of R1 (4' diameter) and R2 (5'4" diameter). After laying it out I was immediately was not satisfied. And this resulted in a lot of 4' and 5'4"  and a reversing  loop switch  I need to sell.

OH, Only Trains is a very nice place to deal with incidentally.  https://www.onlytrains.com/mod...qEAQYASABEgILCfD_BwE

So I switched the plan to the inner loop R3 8'2" diameter minimum and the outer loop R5 10' diameter. It is kinda sorta better.lol

The thing that really sticks out to me was my poor planing on what trains  I intended on running.

That's is where I originally in the very beginning dropped the ball.

Study that part of your project real hard. It will save money and headaches.

Other points to think about , What powers your engine. Track power, battery power it's all personal preference. What engines are you going to want, LGB, Backmann, USA what ever. What scale size 1:32 , 1:29, 1:20 ect ect. Do your want to run them engines remotely or not? What type of remote system do you want?

Also Split Jaw clamps on the track. (see last picture)  only trains has all of them with good explanations on how they work. EXCELLENT PRODUCT and a must have I think.

Some of these may be off the wall but I'm just throwing them out to you for information.

I certainly hope you share your build with us on the forum.

I'm sure I can help mainly because I made so many darn mistakes it's pathetic. lol

Have fun by all means, I still do and it's still a work in progress.

Larry

PS Can't wait for spring so I can get into the yard project again with buildings.

Larry Sr. posted:

Hi Sam

 

I started the train in the yard project last year. (It' a small Layout) I went at it full time hard charging. I knew nothing about 2 rail DC running. And even though I was always  studying hard I screwed up by the numbers regularly.

I also wanted reversing loops . After all the dust settled in the planning I went with two separate loops and no reversing loops.

I failed on the learning curve when it comes to the reverse loops. I came to the conclusion they were a PITA.

Just me and my opinion only.

I used all LGB brass track and started with the idea of of R1 (4' diameter) and R2 (5'4" diameter). After laying it out I was immediately was not satisfied. And this resulted in a lot of 4' and 5'4"  and a reversing  loop switch  I need to sell.

OH, Only Trains is a very nice place to deal with incidentally.  https://www.onlytrains.com/mod...qEAQYASABEgILCfD_BwE

So I switched the plan to the inner loop R3 8'2" diameter minimum and the outer loop R5 10' diameter. It is kinda sorta better.lol

The thing that really sticks out to me was my poor planing on what trains  I intended on running.

That's is where I originally in the very beginning dropped the ball.

Study that part of your project real hard. It will save money and headaches.

Other points to think about , What powers your engine. Track power, battery power it's all personal preference. What engines are you going to want, LGB, Backmann, USA what ever. What scale size 1:32 , 1:29, 1:20 ect ect. Do your want to run them engines remotely or not? What type of remote system do you want?

Some of these may be off the wall but I'm just throwing them out to you for information.

I certainly hope you share your build with us on the forum.

I'm sure I can help mainly because I made so many darn mistakes it's pathetic. lol

Have fun by all means, I still do and it's still a work in progress.

Larry

PS Can't wait for spring so I can get into the yard project again with buildings.

 

Hi Larry, Awesome write up and great info, thanks. Let me try and answer a few of your questions.

I have room, I need to take an exact measurement but I'm thinking my smallest curve would be 6', but right now I'm just in planning stages and measurements haven't been fully taken yet. I'm leaning towards Piko and/or LGB brass rail. From what I've read, better quality rail makes a world of difference. 

I really do like the idea of an old west theme, A Forney style or American Type 4-4-0 for a shorter passenger line and a Shay or climax for a longer log/freight line. Because of this I would probably go with Bachmann, not sure on scale at this point.

As I'm more traditional when it comes to my trains, track power seems to be the way I would prefer to go. I have zero experience with battery and radio controlled trains so I don't know enough to say either way. For controls, a hand held would be nice, but not required. I'm fine sitting on the deck and watching the trains go around the yard.

And you're layout looks fantastic!

I tried to make a quick drawing of my idea. Of course it's not to scale or anything. The thick black outer line is my fence, The orange lines are the track ideas, the shorter circuit is passenger and the longer, logging. The grey box is my shed, I have about 2-3' between the shed and the fence. The brown thing next to the shed is my sons playset and the green blotches are the trees I'm working around.

samdjr74 posted:

Dan Padova posted:

My garden railway is a single track with a reverse loop at each end.  I do run battery power which makes operation quite simple.  But when I was still running track power I used LGB reverse loop modules.  They are a no brainer to install.  

Here is one supplier's ad.

https://www.onlytrains.com/mod...qEAQYASABEgILCfD_BwE

My switch tracks or turnouts as I prefer to call them are spring loaded.  I tried using the LGB manual switch throws but being outdoors, even they are not bullet proof.  So what I did was to buy some small springs.  Home Depot has them in an assorted pack.  Most of the springs in this pack are too stiff, but there are a few that are just right.  

All of my rolling stock is fitted with metal wheels and some of it, the field railway cars, is also weighted with some extra lead strips.  Keeping the turnout clean is important to reliable operation.  After a rain, I may have to brush some debris out of the points or away from the springs.   

Thanks Dan, great info. One thing I need to ask, I assume when you mention battery power or track power you mean what's powering the train, correct? How reliable is battery power in general and how long does a train run on a charge?

Yes, you are correct, Sam.  Let me describe battery power in three words, NO TRACK CLEANING.  Before I converted to battery power around 2010, I had to physically clean my track by hand.  Yes, I did make a tool whereby I could stand and walk with it. But there are always those places where you just have to get down on hands and knees and clean.  If you are going to clean your track, please be sure to buy the LGB track cleaning block.  It's very similar to the Brite-Block the guys in the smaller scales use.  Do not use sandpaper or any kind of abrasive material.  It will only make track cleaning progressively more difficult.  It puts minute scratches in the brass rails that collect dirt.  The LGB track cleaning block polishes the rail at the same time it cleans them.  I think you will find that the engineers at LGB were quite good at their designs for pretty much anything LGB made.  

If you want to spend a few hundred dollars, LGB has a track cleaning locomotive.  Look it up.  It works well, but must be monitored, otherwise if it gets stuck for some reason, it could gouge cups in the rails.  

Now onto more about battery power.  I get three or more hours out of a fully charged Li-on battery.  Some of my locomotives are self contained with the battery and R/C equipment.  I also have a couple of battery cars that I haul behind those locos that do not have their own batteries inside.  

My go to supplier for radio control equipment is G Scale Graphics,

https://www.gscalegraphics.net

Everything you ever wanted to know about running your trains using batteries is there.  Their tech support is second to none. Take some time and look through their site.  There are easy to install and use systems that will match your budget.  

For the Li-on batteries, I use,

http://www.all-battery.com/uni...ypack148v4cells.aspx

The 14.8 volt li-on battery is the one I use.  However, in one or two motorized units I use an 11.1 volt Li-on battery.  

Here is a video of an LGB locomotive after I fitted it with a battery and a GSG Railboss-4.  I managed to fit 7 volt Li-on battery in the cab to power the smoke unit.  

https://youtu.be/mhQj9PSWYKM

Here's the same loco before battery and R/C inclusion.  The battery and Railboss-4 are housed in the small car behind the loco.  Power is fed to the locomotive through the lighting socket on the rear of the motorized tender.  

https://youtu.be/y5hHdX8dft0

If I can be of any help to you with your garden railway, please don't hesitate to contact me through these forums or through my email address which is in my profile.

One other thing you may want to consider is if any of your friends will run their equipment on your layout.  If so, you will want to at least make it possible for them to do that.  An example, I thought about running battery power but in the club I belong to most use track power so I run track power with G Scale Graphics excellent Railboss 4 RC controls on each of my two loops.  Power is provided to the Railboss 4 motor controller by cheap 24v computer power supplies.  Any friends running battery power can still run on my layout.  

One friendly bit of advice, don't skimp on track, it is literally the basis of your whole railroad.  I run Sunset Valley stainless steel with ss Splitjaw clamps and never clean my track.  I just use a couple of big Alco PAs to push the rabbits out of the tunnels.

Chris Sheldon

Reversing loops reverse polarity in 2-rail.    so you need a mechanical or electronic way to reverse polarity outside the reversing loop while the train is in the loop.      You gap both rails at both ends of the loop.    Then connect a DPDT switch to in line to the mainline power connections.    While the train is in the loop, you throw the DPDT and reverse the polarity out side the loop so when the train exits, the track polarity on the main is the same as that of the track the train is exiting on.

There are electronic gadgets  you can buy to do this automatically.    I know there are many for DCC, and I think I have seen some that work with straight DC.

prrjim posted:

Reversing loops reverse polarity in 2-rail.    so you need a mechanical or electronic way to reverse polarity outside the reversing loop while the train is in the loop.      You gap both rails at both ends of the loop.    Then connect a DPDT switch to in line to the mainline power connections.    While the train is in the loop, you throw the DPDT and reverse the polarity out side the loop so when the train exits, the track polarity on the main is the same as that of the track the train is exiting on.

There are electronic gadgets  you can buy to do this automatically.    I know there are many for DCC, and I think I have seen some that work with straight DC.

 

Jim, the LGB reverse loop module I mentioned in an earlier post is the way to do that in straight DC mode.  

Here's a link that explains it very clearly.

http://track2.com/info/lgb-rev...-loop/LGBReverse.pdf

This link will provide you with information on LGB's EPL System.  It's an on-line copy of the book "The World Of LGB Trains".  Information about electrical systems, track, and just about anything to do with LGB trains is contained here.

https://www.champex-linden.de/...the_world_of_lgb.pdf

Thanks all, lots of great advice. I'm going to look at the possibility and cost of doing complete loops over reverse loops. Maybe I can make it work. I can always reduce the layout size for now and as time goes on, add on if I can. I'll also look into the stainless steel track. I like the idea of easy cleaning.