General start up question

Some good questions. 

 

ill try to answer some

when you have legacy they will control you command control switches no extra wiring needed. Just need to program the switch. I have 5 myself and I didnt even hook up the levers that you already have hooked up. I just use my legacy remote. 

 

990 set is all you need to run command engines. Command engines being legacy ones or tmcc ones. 

 

Power master bridge is used when you have an old power master and legacy. The legacy remote cannot talk directly to the power master like the old tmcc remote could. The solution is the bridge. 

 

a power master is used to control the power going to the track with a tmcc remote. Right now you probably control power by using the lever on your transformer. With a power master you would put full power from your transformer into the power master and then use the tmcc remote to vary power. 

 

If you don't already have A power master you don't need the bridge. If you want a power master I suggest getting the newer legacy power master. The legacy power master does not require the bridge. 

 

accessories usually get wired to the accessory post on your transformer. If you want to control them with legacy then you would need an sc2 or a new asc2 (not yet out). I suggest checking out Lionel.com/lcs for what they have coming out in the way of layout control. 

looks like the transformer in the picture is a cw80?

 

if so you are at the limit with the layout you have.

 

to add legacy with what you have you will need the legacy system #990 6-14295 AND A tpc 300 6-14189 or 400 6-14179. 

 

if you plan on a larger layout you might consider up-grading to a lionel ZW-L 6-37921 then you will not need the TPC.

 

 

A dumb question: I know the TPC's allow you to use and/or combine PowerHouse bricks to power your track for Legacy but do they also allow for conventional control through the Legacy system? Is that why the O.P. needs one? I thought the PowerMaster was needed for conventional control?

 

Currently I only have command control (no conventional) and MTH DCS. I have a Legacy system on order (if they ever arrive). I know my setup will be different, but just curious here.  I have watched all the Lionel videos, but some of this is still not clear to me. Thanks.

TPC's do allow for conventional control through the legacy system. You just need the serial cable that goes from the legacy base to the tPC. I had one and it worked great with legacy. When I got a zwl I got rid of my tPC.  

A legacy Powermaster is effectively replacing the TPC line. 

Rather than getting a TPC unit, the new Legacy Powermaster would probably be a better alternative. Besides being available now, (and considerably cheaper than a TPC,) these are simplicity itself to install (No serial wire connection needed!) and provide you with all of the features of a TPC plus much improved short circuit protection. They will also enable you to easily switch to conventional control of your locomotives using the Legacy remote instead of a transformer. (The TPC's allow this too, but I find that the Legacy Powermaster gives smoother control.)

Ok. So, I am understanding that the Legacy #990 and the PowerMaster #6-37146 would be all I would need to run my current conventional locomotive and my cc switches. Correct? Is the PowerMaster essentially replacing my transformer? Would I run my accessories through that or my old transformer? Then, down the road, I could add the sc-2 or something similar to control accessories? Am I close? Thanks for your help! Oh, one more question. What would I have to add if I wanted to run an MTH Protosound 2 or 3 engine through Legacy?

A powermaster does not replace the transformer.  It replaces your hand on the transformer throttle.  It takes full power in from a transformer and regulates the amount of voltage to the track based on what you tell it to do from the Cab2 remote.

 

Simply put, you are controlling the transformer output, via the powermaster, from a remote.  This gets you away from the transformer and let's you explore other parts of the layout instead of being tied to one spot.

jrmertz, MartyE, and N.Q.D.Y., thanks, that clears up a few things. Didn't realize a TPC and PowerMaster were so closely related. I think I do understand Legacy in my application, when it arrives (hope to be finding out soon). Just never have been clear on some of the other stuff and what it actually does and when you would need it.

 

I'll leave the Legacy stuff to the experts, but to add control for MTH PS2-3 engines, you would need a DCS system (TIU and Remote). I am still waiting on the Legacy system (been ordered for a while now), but have had DCS for a couple years. The 2 systems reportedly work well together and are easy to connect to each other.

 

Not to further confuse things, but you could possibly run your conventional stuff with the DCS system. It has 2 variable channels that could be used for conventional control. There are others here much more qualified to explain all this, but if you want both systems, some research into what you want to do with each system could save you some money, maybe quite a bit, by not duplicating features between the two systems.

 

Here's a video that might help a little. Great channel also, lots of good info, if you are interested.

 

TMCC/Legacy/DCS

I have a setup very similar to the OP.  Instead of manual control, I would like to control it via a PC and JMRI.   If I'm not planning on using a remote, but the PC, what would I need to add (in addition to a TMCC equipped engine)?

A base. Either Legacy, Cab1L Base, or TMCC base. If you are running conventional then a Powermaster or TPC to control the voltage to the track. A remote may come in handy For troubleshooting. 

 

Operating switches?  An SC2 or Remote control switches. 

Thanks for the reply.  So it looks like I need the base unit from:

 

This: https://www.lionel.com/products/finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-14295&CatalogUID=DDAE43C2-1016-347D-DC5ECF578C58070A&PageID=2075

 

or 

 

This: http://www.lionel.com/products/finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-12969&CatalogUID=8A4FEE3C-9A9F-17BE-9B6ADB8FAF096B49&PageID=1951

 

Since I don't need the remote (yet), is there any advantage to the "Legacy" base?

 

 Then to interface with the CW-80 transformer, I need this? http://www.lionel.com/products/finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-24130&CatalogUID=9FE3047F-EE66-41FC-1451DFE4B99B2EAA&PageID=2024

 

Or should I be getting a new transformer?

 

I probably also need the rs-232 cable to go between the PC and the base.   Anything else?  Is there something required to set up the TMCC engine itself?

I think you still need the remote for JMRI. 

JMRI does not emulate all the functions of the CAB-1. 

 

Features and Limitations

(Not yet complete)

 

With JMRI 2.11.8, Lionel TMCC operation for engines and accessory decoders is available. The train commands are not yet available.

 

You will still need your CAB on to use the set features like setting an engine ID. Once set up, however, you can do most all functions from the withrotttles. 

Do I need a Cab1L base if I use this?

 

http://www.lionel.com/Products...neID=&CatalogId=

 

Can't I connect the PC to the "Com" and "Dat" connections on the TPC and then be able to control both TMCC and Conventional trains via the PC? 

Yes. The TPC receives its commands from the base.

I don't know if software is capable of controlling a TPC directly without the base.

I guess what I'm asking is that can you send these serial commands (page 36) to the TPC direct, or do they need to be sent to the base first?  They look to be pretty complete. I do not plan on using the base remote...PC control only..so wondering if It has to be in the setup?

 

http://www.lionel.com/media/se...ents/71-2911-250.pdf

I don't know. I guess it depends on what you are trying to do.
What do you need the TPC for?
Are you wanting to control conventional locomotives from a computer through the TPC?

I presume you could command the TPC directly, though I've never seen it documented.  I'd give it a go and see if it responds.

 

Yep.  Correct.  Have a conventional set up now. Would like to be able to control it through a computer (actually an automation system via rs-232).  May eventually like to add TMCC engines.   Wanted to check out if this would work before purchasing. 

I don't see why it wouldn't work, but as I said, I haven't personally tried it.  AFAIK, the documented commands are sent to the TPC on the serial link to operate it.

Just a thought on conventional control. I would say there is more than a good chance that once you begin running TMCC and Legacy engines your desire to run conventional will diminish greatly.

 

I have 180 Powermasters with Legacy. Very easy hook up and the more inexpensive route to run Legacy.

 

If you do get the desire to run conventional you can hook pretty much any transformer you have laying around to the track and run conventional. Keep in mind with conventional it is hard to run more than one engine at a time so you don't need a huge transformer.

 

Many that have a fair amnount of conventional engines and are adding Legacy I'm sure are concerned about running conventional because they already have the engines. If your like me (not that its good or bad) your conventional engines will get a lot of shelf time while you run Legacy.

 

I am only ponting this out as an option to save you money when you first start with Legacy. If your desire to run conventional stays strong you can add the other pieces later, they are a bit pricey.

 

 

Thanks. If Legacy or TMCC only, then no need for the Powermaster? I just need a transformer and a new Legacy base?  Do they sell that by itself for as a set only with the remote? If I use PC control is there any need for Cab2?

 

My setup is a pretty simple 5X10...any recommendation for an inexpensive TMCC or Legacy engine to purchase?

Barhoram, yes. You can use a Legacy 990 and pretty much any transformer for a small set up and run both TMCC and Legacy. The Lionel 990 set includes the Cab 2 remote control and the base unit. Simply run one wire from the base unit to the outer rails and that's it. Problem is Lionel does not have the 990 set available for sale. They are expecting it in but not sure when.

 

As for the engine you can get a nice Legacy diesel from some of the forum sponsors for just a bit over $400.00. Keep in mind the latest models have a few more Legacy features. You can run it on your track with just a transformer until you get a 990 set. 

Thanks.   Other than the differences in remotes, is there any reason to get the Cab2 vs the Cab1L?  The plan is to run from a wall mounted keypad mounted in plexiglass via rs-232..so the remote will probably not matter much once everything is setup.  

The Legacy base only comes with the remote.  Personally, I'd want the CAB2 with the Legacy base anyway.  Adding one of the CAB-1L remotes wouldn't be a bad idea for an extra remote.

Thanks. when you say Legacy Base, are you talking about the one that has a charger for the Cab2 remote?  Or the Base1L?   

 

Also, am I correct in that one can not purchace the Cab2 set at present time??

AFAIK, Lionel only sells two Legacy control system combos, the #990 command base & CAB2 and the #993 CAB2 and charging base.

 

Last I heard, the #990 systems were expected next month, there was a delay due to a parts issue in production last year.

 

You can use the CAB-1L to talk to the Legacy base, but I have no idea of the CAB2 will talk to the BASE-1L, it would certainly be missing a lot of functions if it did.

 

what about this set?  Isn't it full Legacy but without the Cab2 remote?

 

http://www.lionel.com/products...1D7D&PageID=2097

It is NOT full Legacy.  The BASE-1L has basically the capabilities of the old TMCC command base with a couple of Legacy extras like the quilling whistle.

 

The Legacy compatibility comes in where the CAB-1L can talk to a Legacy base and control locomotives and accessories, but only in the operating modes that the old CAB1 was capable of, that being relative speed steps.

 

Ahhh.  Thanks. Very confusing, but starting to make sense now.   Is there a comparison of commands/capabilities available between TMCC and Full Legacy...several Google searches and I'm not finding anything.  

I don't know of any simple table, but it would be a very useful reference.  Perhaps at some point Lionel will come up with a comparison of the CAB1L vs the CAB2 capabilities.

 

Ok, so I found a Trainmaster Command set for dirt cheap, so I thought it would be a good way to figure out if I like it. I also have a Powermaster so I can run my conventional engine. Now, what do I do? I have my transformer plugged into the wall. It looks like I'm going to connect the Powermaster to the transformer and the track? So, what do I do with the Trainmaster base?

Nothing until you have at least one TMCC or Legacy locomotive.

 

Really? So I can't even control my Command Control switches without the TMCC or Legacy locomotive?

Well, yes, I didn't realize you had no TMCC/Legacy engines yet had command controlled switches.  They do require the command base.

 

Here ya go....

 

Plug the power brick into a properly grounded outlet and connect it to the command base.  Connect a single wire from the track terminal on the command base to the outside rail of your track.

 

Installation complete.