It's nice to see GGD doing the Superliners I cars. But, am I the only one scratching my head wondering why these trains are being produced incomplete without the ATSF style Baggage car and Transition car?
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Those baggage cars were "heritage" equipment converted cars some even ex-Budd sleepers and there were countless variations and in the case of superliner dorm transition cars were ex 1956 Budd Hi-Level and not the PS series after 1975. Ex Budd Hi-Level Kachina sun lounge cars were used in variety with the PS SL Lounges until the 2000's not forgetting the Pacific Parlour cars until 2017. A lot of gray area to cover in one set offering. I suppose he could offer up a Kato style thing with basics that were cars that were statistically high use prototypes like those ex ATSF baggage cars that I saw 1983 to 1999.
Scott is offering buyers the 1975 and later Superliner series cars some model today with viewliner baggage and some model 1985 or so with "heritage" cars that modeler will likely already have. It would not make sense to offer sets with era specific cars. I assume that would drive the price up? I'm sure Jonathan can answer this or Richard Dunn.
This is not my bag I Cutoff in 1956 hahaha
Good luck these cars will be awesome I'm sure. Happy for amtrak guys it's about time you get your equipment you need with buying the limited supply of OMI brass superliners that were made.
Transition sleepers are superliner IIs.
Some El Capitan step down cars were used as crew lounges and served the function.
There are baggage cars of many lineages that are plausible. The Atlas CZ car, deskirted is a possible option for a baggage car up to a point. The later baggage cars with the rollup doors are converted ex ATSF cars. I suspect you'd have to build one of those.
If they are offered, and that is an if, they will be for separate sale I suspect. As always, Scott is stuck in the difficult situation of satisfying all buyers in all situations. He is the ONLY manufacturer at this price point that even attempts to do this. Superliners are not quite on the front burner yet, but expect some announcements on add-on cars prior to years end or sometime in January. We are fully aware of the Superliner I consists, but are concerned about the level of complexity this asks of the factories when it is physically impossible to visit the factories. A new paradigm that is still in the works of figuring out. I am in the same situation personally with my order of Phase III cars. Luckily the local museum just acquired a former El Cap car in the Amtrak Coach / Dorm configuration and I plan on making a visit to tour it.
@Brad Kowal posted:It's nice to see GGD doing the Superliners I cars. But, am I the only one scratching my head wondering why these trains are being produced incomplete without the ATSF style Baggage car and Transition car?
You missed the two offerings of GGD Amtrak El Capitan sets. They were offered with the ATSF El Capitan run. Less than 20 were made total for both runs. Beautiful sets!
Maybe Scott can do a specialty run with the cars you ask for?
It is true that the Baggage and Transition cars were ex ATSF, however they were used on a daily basis with the Superliner I cars until the Superliner II cars were built, which included the Transition Sleepers. Anybody modeling the phase II and phase IV paint schemes will need the baggage and transition car. I personally have a baggage car and transition car that I can use. Both would need new decals for phase II paint. Many other people will have a more difficult time with this. Since the El Cap car were previously produced, I would think the cost to produce these two cars would be less than usual. If not, well then we most likely have the first time an incomplete train is offered. Not something to be mad about,
Am I the only one interested in these two cars with paint schemes that match the Superliners?
It is definitely possible to produce those cars. It not possible to produce them for less as labor, material and shipping costs have gone up. The tooling for aluminum cars is fairly minimal which is one of the appeals of doing small runs of cars in aluminum. In other words, there isn't much savings for re-runs for aluminum cars. Scott and I have been discussing it. There are just a few other items further up the list that are in design at this moment. As I mentioned above, there will likely be announcements for add-on cars to the sets in early 2022.
@Brad Kowal posted:It is true that the Baggage and Transition cars were ex ATSF, however they were used on a daily basis with the Superliner I cars until the Superliner II cars were built, which included the Transition Sleepers. Anybody modeling the phase II and phase IV paint schemes will need the baggage and transition car. I personally have a baggage car and transition car that I can use. Both would need new decals for phase II paint. Many other people will have a more difficult time with this. Since the El Cap car were previously produced, I would think the cost to produce these two cars would be less than usual. If not, well then we most likely have the first time an incomplete train is offered. Not something to be mad about,
Am I the only one interested in these two cars with paint schemes that match the Superliners?
Actually, this happened with the GGD 1955 Great Northern Empire Builder. GGD made some cars from the 1947-1951 Empire Builder and some cars from the 1955 Empire Builder. I don't know why. The cars that were made were correct individually, but were never used on the same prototype train at the same time, so a complete train was not offered for the 1955 Empire Builder, even though it was marketed as such by GGD. These issues were pointed out in this forum at the time of the offering, but they were not fixed. I ended up piecing together some fairly accurate K-Line scale cars and an MTH baggage car with the GGD cars that are correct for the 1955 Empire Builder (even though some of the names and numbers of the GGD cars are not correct for 1955) to fill in for the missing GGD cars and get a fairly complete 1955 Empire Builder train (the color matches are close enough for me).
That said, I hope that everyone gets what they want out of this set, within reason. It seems to me that this set will have quite a bit of interest, and should probably be moved ahead of other offerings in the project schedule.
@GG1 4877 posted:It is definitely possible to produce those cars. It not possible to produce them for less as labor, material and shipping costs have gone up. The tooling for aluminum cars is fairly minimal which is one of the appeals of doing small runs of cars in aluminum. In other words, there isn't much savings for re-runs for aluminum cars. Scott and I have been discussing it. There are just a few other items further up the list that are in design at this moment. As I mentioned above, there will likely be announcements for add-on cars to the sets in early 2022.
I'm thinking about the reasearch, drawings, logistics etc.. That should make it easier than a completely new model.
@Jtrain posted:Actually, this happened with the GGD 1955 Great Northern Empire Builder. GGD made some cars from the 1947-1951 Empire Builder and some cars from the 1955 Empire Builder. I don't know why. The cars that were made were correct individually, but were never used on the same prototype train at the same time, so a complete train was not offered for the 1955 Empire Builder, even though it was marketed as such by GGD. These issues were pointed out in this forum at the time of the offering, but they were not fixed. I ended up piecing together some fairly accurate K-Line scale cars and an MTH baggage car with the GGD cars that are correct for the 1955 Empire Builder (even though some of the names and numbers of the GGD cars are not correct for 1955) to fill in for the missing GGD cars and get a fairly complete 1955 Empire Builder train (the color matches are close enough for me).
That said, I hope that everyone gets what they want out of this set, within reason. It seems to me that this set will have quite a bit of interest, and should probably be moved ahead of other offerings in the project schedule.
Regardless of what they do, we'll like the cars. The easier it is to model the complete train, the better. I saw the emal with the indication the transition car will be produced. Hope he does the baggage car as well:-)
That's great to hear there's plan for a transition car. I don't think I'm on the email list (I'm not sure if these were responses to personal inquiries)
If I understand this thread correctly, the transition add on would be a Superliner II and not the ATSF El Capitan transition correct?
If the IIs were to be made, would they be produced concurrently with the Is? Ideally, I'd like a random assortment of Is and IIs as they are in real life. If they're not, I'll probably end up buying a whole train of Is plus the transition.
Superliner II cars are a future project. The transition car being talked about is the rebuilt El Capitan transition coach that Amtrak modified into a Coach / Dorm.
@GG1 4877 posted:Superliner II cars are a future project. The transition car being talked about is the rebuilt El Capitan transition coach that Amtrak modified into a Coach / Dorm.
Looks like the transition car IS POSTED on the GGD webpage. 😉
Yes. Officially added. Now to make a trip to the Arizona Railway Museum in Chandler to tour a prototype one they recently acquired that is still in Phase III paint.
Hey @GG1 4877,
I hate to break it to you, but the transition car at the Arizona Railway Museum in Chandler has had its paint removed and has been/is in the process of being restored to the look it had during the Santa Fe days.
I took the below video on November 13th of this year when I was there for their open house and you can see towards the beginning the total lack of stripes on the outside of both of the high-level cars. Disregard me talking, I considered making a video about the event but didn't.
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Well that's what I get for not getting there soon enough!
It will be nice to see it restored and in the line of Santa Fe cars.
@GG1 4877 posted:Yes. Officially added. Now to make a trip to the Arizona Railway Museum in Chandler to tour a prototype one they recently acquired that is still in Phase III paint.
Going for broke here…. El Cap Lounge as Pacific Parlour cars too? I mean, why not right?
@Boilermaker1 posted:Going for broke here…. El Cap Lounge as Pacific Parlour cars too? I mean, why not right?
I tried to suggest that, been shot down several times already. Perhaps persistence is the key.
Hi Folks,
I hope you all are enjoying the holidays now and in the next few weeks.
The superliner project is going to be produced in stages. First we will make the Superliner Is and a El Capitan transition car.
Then in a year or two more we will produce the Superliner IIs and the Superliner II transition car. So if you are wanting to wait for the this later transition car, just order what Superliner Is you want to go along with your Superliner IIs coming later.
It's all going to be just fine...
Thanks again for your support over the years and your ideas that seem to take on a life of their own. That's what keeps us going.
Cheers,
Scott Mann
I asked about a Pacific Parlour car when the El Caps were made and there was no interest. There were only 3 sets of Amtrak El Cap cars made. If you want a Pacific Parlour car email Scott directly. As the El Cap transition car has been announced for this run adding a Pacific Parlour might be doable. I have an ATSF lounge car I was going to convert but Microscale refused to make their decals in O scale and I offered to purchase whatever minimum it took.
Microscale has been super busy with custom decals. There another popular custom decal provided that a lot of use. He really likes the business, so he is super fast. You'll have to ask around privately as I'm afraid to mentioned the name here.
@sdmann posted:Hi Folks,
I hope you all are enjoying the holidays now and in the next few weeks.
The superliner project is going to be produced in stages. First we will make the Superliner Is and a El Capitan transition car.
Then in a year or two more we will produce the Superliner IIs and the Superliner II transition car. So if you are wanting to wait for the this later transition car, just order what Superliner Is you want to go along with your Superliner IIs coming later.
It's all going to be just fine...
Thanks again for your support over the years and your ideas that seem to take on a life of their own. That's what keeps us going.
Cheers,
Scott Mann
Hi Scott,
We still need a Baggage Car for this train:-)
@Brad Kowal posted:Hi Scott,
We still need a Baggage Car for this train:-)
Good point. Imo one of the ex-Santa Fe baggage cars would make the most sense, they seemed to be everywhere on the system, and they lasted until the Viewliner baggages replaced them.
I would be in for a Santa Fe baggage as it could be used with my Viewliner/ Amfleet train as well.
