GGD and 3rd Rail PRR Broadway Limited

Very nice looking set.  

 

I am now sitting here drooling on my keyboard  trying to imagine how nice my 12-car El Capitan set is going to look.  

 

If you don't mind me asking... How long did it take from the time you (ordered/pre-ordered) until delivery?

Hmmm,

 

Is the Pullman 4-4-2 one of the individual sleepers that was available?  If so you will notice it is not the same as the 4-4-2 that came with the set.  One is a prewar 4-4-2 and one is a postwar 4-4-2.

JeffT, great looking set, wish I could have purchased this set but just not enough funds at this time. Have you an engine for this set and if so, what will you use? If not, what are you thinking of pulling it?

 

To change the subject a bit, Erik, can I assume you have the 2 rail version of the 51 SC? I   suspect you have a layout to shot the cars on so I will be waiting for your postings Sunday evening, I bet you will make them look fantastic.

 

Thanks for sharing guys.

 

Charlie

You Lucky Dog!

Thanks guys!

 

Jim, as I recall, preorder to delivery was less than a year.  That's for both the GGD set and the 3rd Rail brass cars.

 

 Pullman is the separate sale version and is post war.  Any recomendations for a prewar through service car?

 

Charlie, I did decide on a scale wheel version of the streamlined K-4 from MTH.  Feedback from forum members on the pulling power of MTH engines has been positive.  Should be here this week.

 

Erik, wish you could photograph my set the way you have done your cars in the past. You do a fantastic job and I am looking forward to seeing the '51 SC.

 

Beautiful looking set.

 

JeffT

According to Joe Welch's Pennsy Streamliners transcontinental NY-LA thru service on the PRR Broadway Limited/ATSF The Chief commenced March 31, 1946.  The daily service was typically covered by one car - a pre-war PRR 4-4-2 painted two tone gray (Imperial Park, Imperial Pass, Imperial Point), or a host of Native American named pre-war ATSF 4-4-2's (such as Hualpai, Naslini, and Tchirege).  The GGD cars are accurately painted and lettered per PRR & Pullman diagrams for the 1938-41 period.  In mid-1941 the Pullman Co. at PRR’s request began to replace Futura lettering on PRR assigned cars with Claw Clarendon.  From all published dated photos I've seen the conversion was completed before the start of transcontinental service. Some may overlook the font issue in modeling the Broadway as it looked in the early postwar period - others may not (it's your railroad!).  The really "mixed" look Broadway period was late 1948 to mid 49.  A period when new 3 stripe single tone Tuscan red postwar passenger cars began to replaced prewar cars on the Broadway Limited.  This spanned many months as production startup issues and surging postwar orders stretched out delivery schedules.  I've seen a video showing the Broadway with a stainless steel ATSF sleeper behind the RPO and in front of a mix of PRR cars in both the pre and postwar PRR schemes.  A nice addition to an early postwar Broadway would be a GGD ATSF pre-war 4-4-2 sleeper - but I understand they are hard to find.

 

Ed Rappe

Mr. JeffT  was wondering about the underbody details on the duplex sleeper? Could you shoot a couple pics of the underbody? Did GGD accurately portray the  6" depressed frame? I have been searching for underbody diagrams with little result. Anybody got any info on this there is one pic of the from in the Pullman standard library vol. 4 book on page 132

As a cost conservation measure the GGD underframes are generic - not car specific.

Try as I might I have not been able to talk Scott into making these.  The only prewar GGD ATSF cars so far are the '37 Super Chief and they are Budd cars, there is no 4-4-2 and none were ever used as transcon cars.

 

Now, if someone else would like to lobby Scott to make '38 Chief and Super Chief cars, at least the sleepers, please do. 

 

Basically, the sleepers are the same cars as the '37 20th Century and Broadway using the same prewar PS fluting as the extrusion used for the Lark diner.  The problem is the ATSF Diner, lounge and baggage cars are prewar Budd to make a train.

Richard

I would just love it if Scott would produce the pre-war cars in ATSF.

Both the PS cars and Budd would be terrific.

Those turned out nice.  Just a couple of questions, though, I thought the Broadway only ran with an RPO on the head end and no head end cars at all on Sundays?  Also, shouldn't the diner be shorter (80') with rounded roof ends (rebuilt heavyweight)?  Like in this brass set (diner is at top left):

 

The diner shown is a rebuilt heavyweight car as used on the Broadway Limited when placed in service in 1938. Sunset Models did this diner in brass a number of years ago when they did the Broadway.

 

For the GGD 1938 Broadway the decision was made to use an aluminum extrusion for the diner rather than make a brass version of the rebuilt heavyweight diner. The diner in the GGD set is a correct diner as placed in service on The Broadway in about 1940 in Fleet of Modernism paint.

According to Joe Welch's Pennsy Streamliners transcontinental NY-LA thru service on the PRR Broadway Limited/ATSF The Chief commenced March 31, 1946.  The daily service was typically covered by one car - a pre-war PRR 4-4-2 painted two tone gray (Imperial Park, Imperial Pass, Imperial Point), or a host of Native American named pre-war ATSF 4-4-2's (such as Hualpai, Naslini, and Tchirege).

 

A nice addition to an early postwar Broadway would be a GGD ATSF pre-war 4-4-2 sleeper - but I understand they are hard to find.

 I think 3rd Rail has missed an opportunity by not producing and selling separately the transcontinental "through" cars, over the years when producing the trains in which they would have been part of the consist.  Pullman, NYC, B&O, Pennsy, ATSF have all had cars that were in transcontinental service.   

 When the 1950's era Super Chief was released there were extra 10 and 6 and 4-4-2 sleepers produced with correct names for B&O and PRR run through service according to car type. I believe a few of these may still be available from GGD, Jeff Dobslaw or Beth Marshall.

Jeff nice set.

I have been hoping to get the same PRR set there great looking cars.

Marker,

The extra sleepers produced with the Super Chief were :

4-4-2   Regal Crest and Regal Lane for PRR run through

10 and 6 Pine Brook for B&O.

 

 I'd like to add to Bob Heil's comment on GGD's selection of a diner prototype for the pre-war Broadway.  As Bob commented for the first year (June 1938-Aug 1939 the PRR operated a pair of modernized heavyweight D70 diners on the Broadway Limited.  This was an interim measure.  In the summer of 1939 the PRR took delivery of 15 new lightweight dinning cars - 5 each from Pullman, ACF, and Budd.  All were painted in the two tone Tuscan red scheme.  The newly delivered dining cars were immediately assigned to the Broadway and other first class trains.  D82 class dining cars were in Broadway service until supplanted by twin unit diners in 1946.  By choosing the prototype D82 GGD buyers have a dining car with the longest period of Broadway service in the classic pre-war two tone Tuscan red and gold scheme.  By selecting the Pullman standard version of the D82 Scott was able to hold to a lower price line.  Scott didn't flinch when Bob and I strongly recommended he equip the car with  distinctive trucks having outboard mounted brake cylinders.  A first in O scale!

 

The postwar paint scheme applied to the pre-war built "Broadway cars" is correct for  the 1949-52/3 time frame.  With delivery of the postwar car orders The PRR refurbished the pre-war cars, painted them in the then standard 3 gold stripe scheme, and assigned them to The General and other premium trains.  The cars were later de-skirted and dulux striping and lettering replaced gold.  By choosing to apply the Tuscan and gold stripe scheme to the prewar bodies Scott was faithful to the prototype while able to avoid the cost of modeling the partial skirts that were characteristic of prewar built cars in their last years of service (there wasn't a clean horizontal cut on the skirts) . So with one set of tooling, SPF's get two distinctive trains - The pre-war Broadway limited and the postwar General.

 

Ed Rappe

Thanks Bob.  I'll have to look for those.  

Motive power finally here. MTH scale wheel version.

 

 

 

 

Engine next to a GGD car.

 

 

I have just recieved the 1938 Broadway Limited too - my locomotive is the Sunset PRR S1 - so the train just has to be longer than the 20th Century with that monster on the front.  Therefore, I also ordered the mail car, which I expect soon.

 

Agreed, the free-running is much improved over the 20th Century and the rood mounted ladder stays have the correct two humps now - the 20th Century ones are straight. Continuous improvement as they say...

 

I'm afraid I do not know enough about the train to comment about the trucks, but now you mention it I will take another look.

 

It's a lovely train!