Got milk?

Received a Hood’s car tonight along with my Rutland hoppers from Charles Ro. Car seems like the old ones with nice body details and graphics. Except the trucks aren’t the same quality. They look cheap and no white lettering on the side frames. No Kadee mounts either. Although they can be easily added.

I hounded Atlas years ago to offer their 50 ft. Express Reefers as milk cars. Just lose the ice hatches. They would have been prototypical. They had a 4 year window to act and would have blown these cars away.

@Grampstrains posted:

What a difference four years makes.  I just got a credit card hit from Ro.  The B&O milk car I ordered in 2017 is 57.95. The Frisco milk car I ordered in 2020 is 71.95.  Moo

I talked with Butch at Charles Ro a few months ago and he said the price was going up but they would honor pre order pricing. I only ordered the NYC and wish I would’ve ordered more. Now if only the color will match the eight I already have! What do you think?

NYC Z-Man, I talked with Butch yesterday to check on the status of my 2016 B&O order (as previously mentioned) and pay for it.  Not only did Charles Ro honor the pre-order pricing, but my milk car arrived today (!).   Amazing service from a great forum sponsor!  I'll open the package tomorrow and hopefully be able to post some pictures soon.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

@Dave_C posted:

Received a Hood’s car tonight along with my Rutland hoppers from Charles Ro. Car seems like the old ones with nice body details and graphics. Except the trucks aren’t the same quality. They look cheap and no white lettering on the side frames. No Kadee mounts either. Although they can be easily added.

I hounded Atlas years ago to offer their 50 ft. Express Reefers as milk cars. Just lose the ice hatches. They would have been prototypical. They had a 4 year window to act and would have blown these cars away.

These milk cars we’re supposed to come kadee ready.  

Some pictures. Not setup for Kadee’s. Seeing this was suppose to be all new tooling I don’t know why it was omitted in production. The trucks aren’t nearly as nice as before. No lettering . The earlier trucks ere all metal and also featured a nice self centering coupler that pivoted. The new truck the coupler is fixed.

The truck mount screw was a bear to get off. I noted it was threaded like a machine screw. The old version was a screw designed for plastic.

The overall finish of the car is really good. The trucks just fall short of the previous runs.

@Dave_C posted:

Some pictures. Not setup for Kadee’s. Seeing this was suppose to be all new tooling I don’t know why it was omitted in production. The trucks aren’t nearly as nice as before. No lettering . The earlier trucks ere all metal and also featured a nice self centering coupler that pivoted. The new truck the coupler is fixed.

The truck mount screw was a bear to get off. I noted it was threaded like a machine screw. The old version was a screw designed for plastic.

The overall finish of the car is really good. The trucks just fall short of the previous runs.

Woah...this is disappointing on the trucks. Those trucks were one of the best features on the originals. I have 19 in the mail including the special runs, so will see soon enough. Glad to hear the finish is really good though.

@Dave_C posted:

"The trucks aren’t nearly as nice as before. No lettering . The earlier trucks ere all metal and also featured a nice self centering coupler that pivoted. The new truck the coupler is fixed."

The truck mount screw was a bear to get off. I noted it was threaded like a machine screw. The old version was a screw designed for plastic.

The overall finish of the car is really good. The trucks just fall short of the previous runs.

Thanks for the images.

Sorry to hear that. Was very worried the great trucks on these original cars would be redesigned and cheapened like they did on the PS-1 box car sprung truck. Are these trucks really sprung? Or just artificially "sprung" looking by sticking springs into a fixed side frame?

My new two bay hoppers are fake sprung.  Really disappointed with this stuff.  Prices go up product gets cheapen

Are the new milk car trucks interchangeable with the old ones, or was the tooling changed enough where that's not a possibility? Nice to see them finally showing up at any rate.

@superwarp1 posted:

My new two bay hoppers are fake sprung.  Really disappointed with this stuff.  Prices go up product gets cheapen

It seems that if there's a corner to cut, Lionel will cut it.

There is simply no comparison in Lionels recent scale rolling stock to the stuff produced several years ago.

I purchased one of the freight sounds reefers and the trucks and paint are crap. I have dozens of other reefers from the mid 2000s and they are fantastic.

I was considering a set of the new vl refeers but I'll see if they come in neon orange with a pink roof first.

It's hard to justify replacing the trucks when the price increase has already substantially added to the cost.

I sure enjoyed the 15 or so years when Lionel seemed to have their act together.

I sure enjoyed the 15 or so years when Lionel seemed to have their act together.

I hear you here! I’m in “wait and see”, mode!

@superwarp1 posted:

My new two bay hoppers are fake sprung.  Really disappointed with this stuff.  Prices go up product gets cheapen

If the new reefer trucks are cheapened like this that would be too bad.

Anyone have more closeup truck images like Dave's? Is it no longer a truly sprung truck?

I would love to see some photos of the paint jobs on some of these new cars. I had thought I would get quite a few originally, but will probably limit it now substantially with the cheapening of the trucks and look into swapping out the original trucks onto the ones I like the most if they are in fact interchangeable. I'm in wait and see mode for anything new from Lionel to be honest.

If the trucks are the same as the two bay hoppers you should watch this.

Hi Gary,

I don't have time yet to take a photo but I can confirm that the couplers on my just received B&O milk car do point downward slightly as in your video.

They are thinner than some couplers but held OK in a test run around my small MTH loop (31 radius?).  However, the car does have some wobble.

It doesn't have a brake wheel, so I can't comment on that.  (I wonder whether it should?). The under detailing seems very good but delicate.  Ditto for the end details.

The handles for the doors actually slick out as though someone was about to open the doors.  I can see them breaking off easily because they are right where one would be most likely to grasp the model to pick it up or set it down.  

The paint seems OK except for a few hinges on one side.  They look silverish/white.  I'm not sure whether they lack the blue paint, if it was created as a result of the extrusion process, or whether someone started to paint them.  (I'm in poor light without a magnifying glass handy.)

The box says it's made in China, not Vietnam as are your hoppers.

Hope this helps.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

My milks are in the wind somewhere, when I get them I’ll do a video review

OK, in better light this AM and with a tiny bit more time before work, I have these updates:

The paint sprayed inside the milk car is uneven but I don't know what earlier issues looked like.

It turns out that the handles on the doors stick out because the doors actually open.  And the metal bar I'm calling a handle (attached to those vertical locking bars like you see on tractor trailer doors), actually swivel.  Thats very cool but the doors, handles, and hinges appear very delicate.  I won't be doing much "posing" with them open on the team track :-).

I'm still happy, 'though.  I wanted an early era milk car and I wanted an example of B&O livery and I've now got both in one model.  

TRRR

If the graphics, and applied detail are flawless which seems to be the case.  I can ignore the cheap trucks and over spray inside.  I never take the tops off to look at the the tanks anyway.

What color is the roof on the B&O milk car? I have seen artwork showing blue and also black.

Randy,

The B&O roof is black.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

@TomlinsonRunRR posted:

Randy,

The B&O roof is black.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Thanks so much - that was my preference!

@superwarp1 posted:

My milks are in the wind somewhere, when I get them I’ll do a video review

Sounds like they are with my Rutland Hoppers...though I am less excited to get them now.

Random question: Where did you get the decals for your Rutland caboose seen at the end of your video? I've been wanting to do one for a while now.

@CarGuyZM10 posted:

Sounds like they are with my Rutland Hoppers...though I am less excited to get them now.

Random question: Where did you get the decals for your Rutland caboose seen at the end of your video? I've been wanting to do one for a while now.

Dave_C did that caboose for me.  I'm pretty sure he gets his decals from Highball Graphics but you would need to ask him.

https://highballgraphics.com/index.php

I received mine this morning and wanted to post some pictures for those on the fence. I ordered all of them but still have some coming from another dealer and clubs. These are just the 9 I have today.

Above all else, I’m glad Lionel continued with these cars after all the tooling issues. They could have just thrown in the towel. I’m not a Lionel basher by any means, but they have some pros and cons. I collect these cars and have about 60 of the older versions, so I can give a fair assessment to those.

- graphics are very clear and crisp. Excellent paint. Better than the old versions, they really pop

- trucks are a little disappointing. They have real springs but are not sprung that I can tell, at least not in the same way as the old cars. NYC has white lettering on the trucks to match older versions, but others don’t

- interiors and tanks look good.  A little overspray on some but not a concern

- couplers are a little strange. They sit lower than the old (see pics) and look a little different. In the pics they’re sitting on an 0-72 curve and won’t connect when both are open. Need a straight section of track to connect

- the NYC car doesn’t match the old nyc  paint. Could be because mine are 15 years old but I don’t remember them being this green. A perfect match all these years later is not a realistic expectation

- detail is fantastic as we’ve come to expect from the prior versions

- Overall, not a home run but very good. The paint jobs are very nice and the main reason why I will continue to purchase these. I’d like to see more of the railroad road names and unique paint jobs out of future versions. I’m excited for some of the unique paint schemes from club custom runs

Nice review PRR.  I have some of the same cars coming.   If the lobster claws sit that low I'll be converting to kadee on mine.  I have not converted my older milk cars as the mechanism is so good.   Really don't know what to think about these new trucks.

@superwarp1 posted:

Nice review PRR.  I have some of the same cars coming.   If the lobster claws sit that low I'll be converting to kadee on mine.  I have not converted my older milk cars as the mechanism is so good.   Really don't know what to think about these new trucks.

Thanks Gary. Since I run these as a train usually, I may convert some of line to kadee also.

I should add, I’d also like to see them offer future versions in multiple rod numbers. A few of these I’d love to have 5-6 of with different numbers.

@superwarp1 posted:

Dave_C did that caboose for me.  I'm pretty sure he gets his decals from Highball Graphics but you would need to ask him.

https://highballgraphics.com/index.php

Thank you!

@Dave_C posted:

Some pictures. Not setup for Kadee’s. Seeing this was suppose to be all new tooling I don’t know why it was omitted in production. The trucks aren’t nearly as nice as before. No lettering . The earlier trucks ere all metal and also featured a nice self centering coupler that pivoted. The new truck the coupler is fixed.

The truck mount screw was a bear to get off. I noted it was threaded like a machine screw. The old version was a screw designed for plastic.

The overall finish of the car is really good. The trucks just fall short of the previous runs.

The Kadee addition is an easy using the existing screw hole.  Here's the previous run's conversion process: 8-Minute Lionel Scale Milk Car Kadee Conversion

Thanks!

- Mario

Gary you beat me to it on the couplers. I should amend my original comments on the couplers. After an operating session last night I learned they’re way worse than I originally thought. Wont close with the older milk cars, or other cars (Lionel and others), or Lionel electro couplers. Tried to do some basic switching last night and they’re useless. It’s almost like the opening width is off as well as the height.

Will the original trucks from the previous runs work on these new cars and fix the problems? There are quite a few for sale that are less desirable or more plentiful and it might be worth it for a select few of the new cars you really like.

How does one get these crappy truck screws out then? I am having a hard time getting them out. It's almost like you need someone who has won a couple strongman competitions to get them out.

From the photos above it looks like there is some thread lock of some kind on the screws so it may take considerable effort.

I think it’s just the plastic getting in the threads when these screws are threaded in. The coarser threaded ones are mean’t for plastic. No reason for Loctite. The screws tighten up against the mounting boss. Still letting the truck pivot freely. Loctite was useful on some of the Weaver cars. On those you had to tighten the screw then back it off to allow the truck to pivot. To loose and the coupler drooped. A fine line as far as adjustment. You wanted the screw to stay put after you loosened it.

Randy, you can still buy the older trucks from Lionel. I was in need of a few for 3 railing some brass Bordens cars. I found some cheap on eBay with the sole purpose just to get the trucks. No boxes probably helped the price.

Tim,  the screws are tight. Your not going to get them out unless you have a big handled screwdriver with a good bit. The small hobby ones ain’t gonna work. They may also use what’s called a JIS screw. The head is slightly different than a Phillips. I have a few sets on hand. My go to set was recommended on the Forum. Goggle Hozan screwdrivers. They make a nice 4 piece set for around 20 bucks. Luckily the screw goes in easier than it comes out. For those looking to do Kadee conversions. The screw Mario shows in his video is no bargain to get out either. I’ve had to take a drill to a few. The only hold the milk tanks in. I usually just remove them and add some weights.

Whoa, did I hear the milk reefers from 2016 are in?

Including the New York Central?

What is the road number? It was supposed to be 6583 to add to the Niagara Milk Train.

And I am disappointed to hear about the trucks and couplers.

Mike

Here's the 2016 V2 Baltimore and Ohio Milk Car.  I took these a while ago but am just posting them now.  I don't know whether the final photo is clear enough but it is trying to show how the new couplers and old ones are shaped differently.  One is squarish, the other rounded.

The first photo has the roof removed.  It is black as shown in photos 3 and 4.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

@ezmike posted:

Whoa, did I hear the milk reefers from 2016 are in?

Including the New York Central?

What is the road number? It was supposed to be 6583 to add to the Niagara Milk Train.

And I am disappointed to hear about the trucks and couplers.

Mike

There were photos, on a different thread possibly? The new NYC milk car has a bit of a greenish hue when compared to the earlier ones.

I'll be picking up my scale milk cars soon I ordered the Central Vermont and Rutland. I also found the New Haven version from 2003. Being the majority of collection is northeastern road names I had to get these. It really is disappointing to hear the newer milk cars have problems with the trucks and couplers considering the long wait for them. Hopefully Lionel is now aware of the issue and is working to resolve this issue (new separate sale trucks for the milk cars, a recall, etc).

@RickO posted:

There were photos, on a different thread possibly? The new NYC milk car has a bit of a greenish hue when compared to the earlier ones.

Thanks, I saw them after I posted here. I need to call the dealer.

Mike

I placed my order in 2016, waited 4 years for them, I am ok with what I got. Just don't open the doors, the tolerance is very tight and it looks like you could damage the paint.