GREAT TRAIN INVESTMENTS

Never looked at electric trains as an investment. The trains will go to the Grandkids when I bite the dust and for them it will be a 100% profit even if they sell at 20 cents on the dollar.

I'm right there with you James.  Anyone who "invests" in trains is plumb cuckoo.  Buy and run em.  

See "Rude awakening " post. 

I like the Aquarium Cars (at a deep discount!). 

 

I never really though about looking back in the old issues to find predictions. It would be great to hear how Ed's investment turned out.  Those were wild time in the toy train world.

 

I haven't bought anything with the idea of making money on it, but there were a few items I bought used for a great price and latter sold for a sizable profit.  Pure luck that it worked out on those trains. I like the "only buy if you want to keep it" philosophy.

 

 

I assume every loco I buy has zero re-sale value.  I don't buy it unless I want to play with it.  

When I want to invest, I go talk to the "wealth management" people at my bank. so far they have never mentioned toy trains.

Somehow the word "investment" used in the same context has "hobby", will eventually lead to a very rude awakening.

While I plan to never sell my trains (I'll let the estate worry about that), I do consider some of my trains as investments because they cost more now then when I bought them.  I bought most of my K-Line passenger cars at great discounts many years ago before they became "scarce".  I have a few 3rd Rail engines that I picked up pretty cheap that I could not replace today.  All of these I would buy now if I didn't already have them, so I guess they are great investments to me.

I bought one of those 16681 gold aquariums.  Paid ~ $75 or $100 for it if I recall.

 

But if I wanted it for the prices quoted here, I also would not have had the pleasure of owning it for the last nearly 18 years.

 

(I also own a bunch of other cars people would consider "turkeys" - Horde car, Hellgate boxcars, etc.  I'm not terribly sorry I bought them.)

 

That said, I missed a recent one from METCA (Madison HW boxcar).  I still may seek one out, depending on how much of  a premium I need to pay over their original price.

 

-Dave

There have been times in the past where you could make some good money buy and selling toy trains. Same holds true with classic cars, railroadiana or anything old. And that's great if you were able to do that, but to consider your hobby as an investment is a huge mistake. Unfortunately, I think the days of making a profit in collectibles is long gone.

I bought several LGB New Orleans streetcars back in the day, and I made pretty good money when I sold them. That's the only time I ever bought a train product to resell (not including my time as a hobby shop owner).

 

I do try to buy intelligently, and I think right now I could sell everything I own for about 70% of what I paid on average. I generally buy used equipment and I miss out on some things if the price seems too high compared to what I think the true value of the item should be.

 

Jeff C

People get into all sorts of trouble dressing up discretionary consumer purchases as "investments."

 

The average person would be well suited to confine their universe of "investments" to a diversified group of low cost mutual funds from a provider such as Vanguard or Fidelity.  

I think a lot of the "investment" is pure happenstance. Yes you might have bought something at a original price and sold it for higher but that was the nature of the beast but you weren't trying to make money on it. its the folks who came along later ,noting the appreciation, who tried to "invest." Its these folks who still trot out the stuff at old high prices and don't sell anything as they don't want to take a "loss". Remember, Las Vegas didn't get the way it is based on winners but on the "thought" of winning. I get enjoyment out of having a piece (its my depreciation) so it doesn't matter too much what was the final price.

 

Peter

The only "investment" aspect for me is in family memories, and my hopes that dad's/grandad's trains will be passed down to little ones to enjoy.

 

An interesting aspect is whether the command control locos will still be runable in 15 years.   My small fleet of conventional locos will still be good though.

Everyone knows, that if it didn't come from the Franklin Mint it is not worth collecting as an investment.

Yep...if it's advertised on late night tv or on the back cover of a magazine it is obviously a rare and priceless object...

 

Jeff C

I don't buy trains as investments; I buy them if I like them.  I have sold a few for more than I paid for them though.  I had four of the AEC reactor fluid tank cars with the colored fluid in them.  I sold all but one of them at about triple what I paid for them; I still have the black one.  I also had the first MTH Railking flat with the two Cadi's that I sold for 6 or 7 times what I paid for it when I sold off all of my Railking rolling stock ten or more years ago.

 

Jeff Davis 

Four good train investments are CSX, KSU, UNP and NSC all paying a dividend. 

 

And they are easy to buy and more important easy to sell.

 

Charlie

I would never buy as a investment.. Not anymore.. I have always bought and sold and years ago you could see things going up in value.. I bought the 6464 re-issue cars and remember paying $99 dollars for series 1 and then reselling it for $700.00 2 yeats later. Now I dont think you could get $100 for the set..lol I only see trains declining in value except for play value.. I have sold everything except what I like to run. No more collecting/investing for me.. 

I have an old computer running Windows 3.1, cant wait for the value of it to go sky high; and an old Toast-0-Later that the bread runs through on tracks!  Just waiting to cash in!!

I really enjoy Bill Benson's Right of Way locomotives especially since I purchased 6 of

them during the past 7 years or so.  When they came out in the early 1990s they were very expensive $1200--$2200!  The advertisements emphasized that they would be great investments and even compared realized resale prices in the mid 1990s with other upscale brands.

But unfortunately diecast technology and TMCC/DCS came on the scene.  Now these beautiful ROW brass locomotives can be purchased in the $300 - $800 range without too much difficult most in super condition, because they were "shelf queens".

 

Lew Schneider

I think "investment" was replaced by the phrase "quick buck." I base this opinion on all the set break ups on eBay. No sooner than a nice RTR set is released, the engines appear at auction at close to the cost of the whole set's pre-buy price.

Excepting 2015 newly released product, the prices on all surplus, overrun, MPC era, used and Kuhn era model trains are headed quickly downward. Even much of the select P/W stuff is going down in price. I've never seen so many trains at bargain basement prices than I have in the last two years. The aging audience is getting smaller and the supply is getting larger as many estate collections are coming on the market.

The only engine that seems to hold its value is the 5344 scale Hudson. Its status as the forbidden fruit of Lionel trains keeps the price up in the thousands. If you buy trains for an investment YOU LOSE!  If you buy them for fun-YOU WIN!

If you want invest in trains I suggest Union Pacific or CSX.  Both of their 5-year charts are shown below.  A $33,000 investment in CSX five years ago is worth $124,520 today.

 

On the other hand, $31,000 invested in CSX five years ago is worth $75,980 today.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hate to say it but those ROW engines now selling for $300-800 are still over priced. They were no better then junk when they were built. Bill Benson and his cronies were no better then thieves. 

Collectibles, or trends in items increasing in prices? (mostly temporarily) Remember Beanie Babies? Everyone wanted one, but shortages led to ridiculous prices paid. Same for Star Wars items, shortages, and suddenly huge prices paid, because we had to have them, not because we thought they would increase in value, though many seemed to believe otherwise and borrowed, took out loans to get on the hoarding of these. Sadly to see prices plummet.

Are there such trends today? Yes! The AMC TV series "Walking Dead", has turned the increase want for Colt Pythons nothing but upward at ridiculous prices paid in the last year, and still going strong. To be 110% Honest, its how I paid for my "Big Boy". 2 years ago anywere from 1300.00 to 1500.00 were realized for these Colts. I paid, at Police discount 129.00 in late 60s for mine. I received an offer and took 4200.00 for mine. Go figure? It bought my Big Boy, and put cash into savings.

I look at O-Gauge trains strictly as an investment in "fun". That's enough for me.

>>>As the train sage says - "Buy it only if you like it" because it's never going to be an investment piece. With the way kids are now - don't save them on the shelf. People are trying to sell these $2,000 steamers and diesels on the secondary market but what are they really worth? Good luck with your investment.

Run them now for your enjoyment or sell them before no one wants them!<<

 

For me a modern era train guy, only two engines that will probably never see power 

1-700e from 1990 ...Because its the very best example ever of when Lionel actually manufactured trains.

And..

The gem pictured below.

Made one time, it will never be repeated. Not ever...

Never mind it has been cataloged countless times since, this gem rises above all else on the collectability pole.

The last of what once was iconic and great at lionel, this guy is so special, it matters little if monitary valuation drops to zero. Its collectable value is based on historic fact...

Most folks have never seen one on a layout..

In a business world dominated by greed This gem is magic.

The few that were produced included a signed document stating it is the very last engine manufactured BY Lionel in the USA.  For collectors, it does not get much better then that....

Here's a photo of every collectors dream..  

Joe  

 

Think trading instead of investing in the Modern Era (like they do on Wall Street).  Anytime demand for merchandise exceeds supply, one can make a blockbuster trade.  The Lionel 28227 UP SD70 MAC (the first "Building America" Flag locomotive) was issued in 2004 for $429 retail but many sold for $700+ while stock remained sequestered in a warehouse until the trademark infringement squabble was settled in 2006. What could you get for one of those new-in-the-box immediately afterward?  $400 at best.  Also could have doubled your money on the Polar Express set in 2004 as another example, but they sold at a discount to retail as supply caught up to demand after Christmas.    

My favorite advice.

 

If it says, "Limited production," beware.

 

The only thing that ends up limited, is your funds.

 

JC642: What is that second engine? I cannot tell from the picture.

oh.... you mean, "Built To Order."

 

My 'investments' are occurring now, so when things settle around retirement (if I'm allowed to actually retire) then some really nice stuff is all paid for, and I expect this stuff to last my lifetime.

 

.

if your buying trains as an investment,

you are buying them for the wrong reason.  

 

Exactly right.   it is simply amazing how many folks around here confuse collectors that first requires appreciation for what they're buying before they collect and speculators who accumulate trains in no logical form with the sole purpose of monetary gain.

The mistaken idea that has lumped both types, collectors/speculators into one type and operators in another has been the crutch and the downfall of train collecting since the late 1990's

Joe

Originally posted by david1:

Hate to say it but those ROW engines now selling for $300-800 are still over priced. They were no better then junk when they were built. Bill Benson and his cronies were no better then thieves. 

I'm Sorry but you will have to explain yourself on the meaning of "junk" for those limited production brass engines from ROWI. Those unique articulated engines came out from the mid to late 1980's and had the "state of the art" electronics of their time. They were built by top brass mfg Ajin of Korea during that timeframe. Many had Pittman Can motors and those motors still run in those models today. 

 

Just because they're not equipped with Flywheel motors, the latest TMCC/DCS electronics [ because both those technologies were not in the marketplace at the time] doesn't mean that they are "junk"!

 

Rowi's marketing practices are no different than Lionel premium product of today[ $2200.00 die cast centipedeswith competition of similar product at $799.00] other than there was no ROWI competion for their unique large articulated locos during their time. In fact for the exception of the PA-1 and the PRR T1, Many of those Limited Brass constructed Rowi locomotives have yet to be reproduced in today's market.

 

So where's "the Junk?"

That would be #6-28074.

 

Joe

Thanks

I have one of the older Nickel Plate Rd Berkshires, I think its an 8215, from 1982

Well first off buying trains at the right price is important  .. As for makeing money on them you can and I have .. Not gonna go into detail but I have bought some nib well wanted engines made of metal and sold them on that so called evil site and made money . If your buying them just to hold on to and make money hopeing for the next ge evo .. It might now be a wise choice..I am not in this hobby to make money but it doesn't hurt to make some from time to time to help pay for it.

Not this argument again.

 

Investing in trains is perfectly legitimate. There are going to be gainers and losers just like any other investment. I find that most higher end modern stuff will sell quickly if in excellent or better condition and with an original box. Many times bringing close to or at original retail. There are lemons, but for that most part that is true. With older trains, the older collectors and operators already have the items and many new comers want the new electronics. But there is a market for vintage trains if you bought right and that doesn't always mean getting it cheap. Condition is always key. It also depends on the meaning of investment. Are you looking for heaps of profit? Not going to happen. If your looking for a reasonable return, you'll make out fine if you have patience and thought out your purchases. If you bought them as a savings tool you'll do even better. I am very happy with my investments in trains. I enjoyed the hunt, I enjoyed fixing and running them, I enjoyed displaying them. It took years to gather everything, and it will take years to sell it off properly. Kind of like fishing, patience is the key.

 

 

>>>If you want invest in trains I suggest Union Pacific or CSX. $31,000 invested in CSX five years ago is worth $75,980 today.  

 

Likewise, $700.00 invested in a Lionel Hybrid ES44 five years ago would return as much as $1800.00 today..