david1 posted:
Hmmmm...
Rusty
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Since this thread is really all about one's opinion, I guess I'll offer mine. 
In N scale, there is a huge following of Micro Trains collectors who will purchase any offering from them, regardless of realism (or lack thereof.)
I see a similar dynamic here with Lionel: "If We Make It, They Will Buy".
I've never been a fan of this type of "fantasy" offering: I'd rather see the train makers use their resources to offer models of things that really exist(ed). But that's just me.
Mark in Oregon
Mill City posted:rthomps posted:This is an HO model of Key Model Imports (1986) which clearly shows a color similar - if not identical - to the Lionel Challenger.
Maybe Lionel was not so far off after all.
I have enjoyed a lifelong career that involved color matching. With all due respect, the two examples you provided do not support your claim that the colors are similar if not identical. First clue is one is darker than the other. Work from there...
Sure. What the heck. They are not identical, of course. You're right.
Similar? Yes.
rthomps posted:Mill City posted:rthomps posted:This is an HO model of Key Model Imports (1986) which clearly shows a color similar - if not identical - to the Lionel Challenger.
Maybe Lionel was not so far off after all.
I have enjoyed a lifelong career that involved color matching. With all due respect, the two examples you provided do not support your claim that the colors are similar if not identical. First clue is one is darker than the other. Work from there...
Sure. What the heck. They are not identical, of course. You're right.
Similar? Yes.
Similar? No.
As to colors, people see them differently, even amongst those who are not color blind. Hearing, smell, vision are very individual and quite variable biologically. There is no "truth" in these areas.
Secondly, every manufacturer has to use a specific source for colors and features for a model, whether plans or photos. Prototypes vary enormously in their color and features because railroads were not interested in having uniform painting as a general rule. They were quite practical, and they were less interested in color matching than in "close enough" inexpensive and long wearing materials. So one can find all sorts of variable colors on many locomotives and rolling stock depending on the paint used, the time of year it was painted, who did the painting, the weather at the time, not to mention the effects of weathering. And film varies in its sensitivity to different colors as well.
Thus it is a futile and I think erroneous task to determine that one particular shade of brown is correct and another is incorrect, particularly if one hasn't seen the photos or specifications of the prototype used by Lionel. One is wasting time on something that cannot be ascertained and unfairly impugning the competence of those who made the decision. Probably not ever possible, given the variations in film, aging of film, etc. not to mention the variations of the prototype. But if it makes you feel better to dump on other people for what is largely nonsense, have at it .
Landsteiner posted:As to colors, people see them differently, even amongst those who are not color blind. Hearing, smell, vision are very individual and quite variable biologically. There is no "truth" in these areas.
Secondly, every manufacturer has to use a specific source for colors and features for a model, whether plans or photos. Prototypes vary enormously in their color and features because railroads were not interested in having uniform painting as a general rule. They were quite practical, and they were less interested in color matching than in "close enough" inexpensive and long wearing materials. So one can find all sorts of variable colors on many locomotives and rolling stock depending on the paint used, the time of year it was painted, who did the painting, the weather at the time, not to mention the effects of weathering. And film varies in its sensitivity to different colors as well.
Thus it is a futile and I think erroneous task to determine that one particular shade of brown is correct and another is incorrect, particularly if one hasn't seen the photos or specifications of the prototype used by Lionel. One is wasting time on something that cannot be ascertained and unfairly impugning the competence of those who made the decision. Probably not ever possible, given the variations in film, aging of film, etc. not to mention the variations of the prototype. But if it makes you feel better to dump on other people for what is largely nonsense, have at it
Lighten up, this is FANTASY..........
AmeenTrainGuy posted:rthomps posted:Sure. What the heck. They are not identical, of course. You're right.
Similar? Yes.
Just because it's similar does not mean it's correct.
Do me a favor ... throw up on the Forum a TRUE color photo of the UP 49er.
I'll wait.
Mill City posted:rthomps posted:Mill City posted:rthomps posted:This is an HO model of Key Model Imports (1986) which clearly shows a color similar - if not identical - to the Lionel Challenger.
Maybe Lionel was not so far off after all.
I have enjoyed a lifelong career that involved color matching. With all due respect, the two examples you provided do not support your claim that the colors are similar if not identical. First clue is one is darker than the other. Work from there...
Sure. What the heck. They are not identical, of course. You're right.
Similar? Yes.
Similar? No.
Apparently professional opinions can and will vary.
Personally, This thing is hideous and it kind of trashes the looks of the challenger. I wouldn't buy no matter who made it. But that is also the point, If you don't like it you don't have to buy it!
Some people like fantasy schemes, and that's who this is tailored for, they can snap it up and be very happy with it. Good for them and Lionel for making it available. If Lionel makes money on these why not make more fantasy schemes for those who desire it, it makes good business sense.
Now go buy those yucky fantasy scheme engines!!
I believe this is the color brown.
Tom
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AmeenTrainGuy posted:
Lastly, here are the two engines to compare.
These two pictures are as accurate as it gets to the actual models. Now, exactly how does one shade look like the other? If the Lionel M10000 has the most accurate shade, then the challenger is way off.
For a fair comparison, a photo of the actual model should be used rather than the Photoshopped catalog image.
Ideally, both models should be in the same photo.
Rusty
Give it up Rusty it is two different Browns and Lionel did not come close to matching it on the 49er Challenger.
Dave
"Give it up Rusty it is two different Browns and Lionel did not come close to matching it on the 49er Challenger. "
But which one is the truth? Give us scientific proof, not somebody's opinion or ancient, likely deteriorating color photos . Take a look at the photos from Das Boot above. More like bronze than brown. Who knows what it really looked like? Pick your favorite.
On the other hand there may be several truths, each of which is quite tenaciously held by the person holding it.
I'd give up the whole idea, personally. You don't like the color? "Frankly Scarlet, you don't need to buy it."
I could see this thread being justified if OP had purchased this and was disappointed in the color I could see the point being made. He started a with a post in the original Challenger thread and didn't get the response he wanted there after about an hour and started this thread to stir the pot! I didn't read in the description that this FANTASY engine was using prototypical 49'er paint color but doing a 49'er paint scheme on the Challenger.
Now it's time for this to end!!
Doug
No - it is just a bunch of opinions. Just stop reading if somebody offends your aesthetic viewpoint.
trnluvr posted:
Now it's time for this to end!!
Doug
Don't worry. It'll start up again when the fantasy Santa Fe Blue Goose Northerns arrive. The Blue Goose catalog colors are waaaaay off. 
Rusty
trnluvr posted:I could see this thread being justified if OP had purchased this and was disappointed in the color I could see the point being made. He started a with a post in the original Challenger thread and didn't get the response he wanted there after about an hour and started this thread to stir the pot! I didn't read in the description that this FANTASY engine was using prototypical 49'er paint color but doing a 49'er paint scheme on the Challenger.
Now it's time for this to end!!
Doug
Could not agree more.
The OP has intervened several times in this "discussion" just to add fuel to his fire & maintain his unrelenting original (if wrong) opinion.
He does this often ... and is unfortunately not alone.
Too bad this whole thread is not a "fantasy' - to just go away.
bob2 posted:I have a few fantasy schemes - a purple 4-10-2; a dark blue MoPac Berkshire, and a Daylight orange SD-6 with red lettering and black tiger stripes.
So I cannot object on the basis of fantasy.
However, as an opinion: Yow! Ugly! Yuk!
can i see pics of these please
i love that thing just don't have the cash curves or space for it
but i would have it haul a big area 51 train because reasons i can't explain
I have found this whole thread to be quite amusing. I do not own even one "real" (I think the word y'all like to throw around is prototypical) engine. I do have 11 different Disney locomotives as well as two Batman and one F3 ABA set that I even (perish the thought) converted to Batman from a perfectly good Williams Chesapeake and Ohio set. I'm pretty sure the C&O colors don't match Batman's costume exactly from the 66-68 tv show, but no one has ever mentioned it -HA.
Time for the Lionel Fan boys to admit when your wrong.Dave
Cool! I'm a fan boy!
In reality, it looks like its under a florescent light... i will wait to see it in normal light before i get concerned...
Well its very simple, If you don't like it don't buy it. Then it makes no difference if the color is correct.
Interesting that the same people have something negative to say about every Lionel catalog. What a wast of time!
when i seen the catalog i was like **** no i do not want it now i seen the photo of it im kinda like im so glad i did not order that and back of my head i was thinking what in the **** was Lionel thinking i fill like maybe one in day light coolers might be better
Beings some of you guys don't like my opinion on the 49er challenger and that's ok and I must hate fantasy locomotives which is far from the truth. There is one in the new catalog that I really like and that is the Santa Fe blue goose. I hope it is made just as presented, love the color and yes I know it is fantasy, but I like it.
I also like Frank Swafords drawings of freight cars in fantasy schemes, maybe some of the mfgs. should take a look at them. I also like any freight car in the red and silver of the SF.
I buy what I like and can afford and so should everybody else.
Dave
