Help needed please. Factory new RMT Beep Diesel.

You can take a chance on my newer BEEP reverse boards for a lot less money.

Hey Mannyrock:

Here are a couple of photos of my RMT BEEP.

It was originally shelled with the black "New York Central" body when I bought it brand new a few years ago, but I wanted the bright yellow "Chessie System" body when they became available, cause I think that railroad colour scheme is really neat.

Anyway, I purchased the "Chessie System" body last year and swapped it over, easy peezy!!! I also removed the original roller pick-ups, as it was "stalling" when going through my Buco brass rail turn-outs. I swapped them for a set of brass "spoons" used on my Buco loco's (Swiss brand of tinplate trains), and it just glides through the turn-outs now, even at low speed.

Also, my BEEP starts-up in the direction of the "F" painted at the front of the cab chassis.

I have also attached a small/rough video of my BEEP circumnavigating my Buco layout at full speed (10V) and, as you will see, it's not about to set any land speed records.....but I still love it!!!

I am waiting to hear back from RMT in response to the E-mail I sent them as well.....fingers crossed.

Peter.......Buco Australia.

The original "New York Central" body stored in the replacement "Chessie System" box.

The original RMT BEEP box the "New York Central" loco came in.

John,   I may well end up buying one of your reverse boards before my BEEP mess is over with, but I would need a set of instructions for installation that any 6th grader could follow. :-)

Bucco,  it is funny that you mention tinplate.  I am putting together a tinplate train of cars, and I don't want to fool with buying a tinplate locomotive.  Most of them look pretty terrible to me.     I am getting a BEEP because it is the only modern loco I have seen that actually looks tinplate-ish, in both size, brightness and design.  Before I sent my new BEEP back, I had it pull the tinplate cars around for a minute or two, and it looked great.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

Bucco,  I think you got one of the later made BEEPs, because that is very good speed.

The one I sent back traveled at 1/3rd that speed, on 16 volts!

Buco,

Please pull the shell off and take a picture of the board. Post it and we can tell you which version you have.

Chris

LVHR

In researching BEEPs, I saw this ad on Worthpoint.

"RMT Halloween Beep Diesel Locomotive New In Box. The locomotive is 3 rail O scale. Unit #1031, Stock #92472 HALLOWEEN Railroad painting and lettering in a unique 'spooky' paint scheme.RMT-92472 HALLOWEEN #1031 features upgraded speed control and electrical pickup. "

I note that in pictures, both the orange and yellow models of the Halloween BEEPs have painted rails.

So, it looks like the Halloween BEEPs are the upgraded models.

Thx,

Mannyrock

More BEEP info:

My research shows that RMT and Aristocraft entered into a Joint Marketing Agreement in March of 2010, which included sharing a production facility in China.  A short time thereafter, the price of the BEEPs jumped from $60 to $100. 

The wording on the Box was also changed to say:   "BEEP GP 7/9 Diesel Locomotive" on the front.

I think that the BEEPs sold in these boxes, at the higher price, were the upgraded units.

If anybody has a BEEP, with this wording on the original box, it would be great if you would let us know how fast it will run.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

Hi Chris (lehighline):

Sorry for the tardy reply, but "life" just got in the way the past couple of days.

Here are the photos you asked for......it looks to me that I also have the pi..y little circuit board.

                The end of the original box with loco description and bar code

The back of the original box with all of the instructions on how to get the body off and back on the chassis, and the use/location of the "on-off switch" for the different types of operation.

View of the chassis with the body removed...note I have removed the knuckle coupler from the rear of the chassis and replaced it with a "drop-link hook" coupling to mate with my Buco wagons.

    Better shot of the circuit board and motors. I think I have the weak circuit board??

Hope this is enough to determine which circuit board I have in my BEEP.

Peter......Buco Australia

Buco,

That's definitely the original design "wimpy" board.  A board upgrade will definitely help this engine.

Chris

LVHR

Just bought a NIB Halloween Beep on E-Bay, for $125.   Description says it was made in 2015, and is an Aristo-RMT Beep.  .  Front of Box says Beep GP 7/9 Diesel Locomotive.  (It was listed at $175 or Best Offer.  I threw in the low offer and it was accepted.)

It will arrive by April 27th.     I'll see how fast it runs, and take a picture of the circuit board, and post the info here.

Luckily, the Seller info says that anything can be returned if the Buyer is not 100% satisfied with it.  So, I feel pretty safe about returning it if it runs slowly.

I have no use for the Halloween decorated shell, because I already have the Sante Fe shell I want. So, if I keep the Beep, I'll post the Halloween shell for sale in the For Sale section.   

Thanks,

Mannyrock

This thread got me wondering, so I got my "Beep" out of storage, ran it, and took a look under the shell.

Appears I may have the older version as well, but it runs fine for me, controlled starts and good speed without a load.

The weight plates have some surface rust that I'll clean up before repacking.

Now I recall why it's not a favorite, jerky operation on my RealTrax turnouts, a behavior that will keep it in the box.

Here's a little video with two BEEP engines I have, the PP&L one is the original BEEP Commander and BEEP sound board that ERR did years ago, the PRR one is one I upgraded with the ERR Cruise Commander Lite and RailSounds Commander as a test of what would fit into the little engine.  It got some greatly enhanced lighting as well.

Since the drivetrains are identical as well as the motors, one can only assume that it's the electronics that determines the top speed.  It appears the Cruise-Lite wins the speed race, it caught up with the BEEP Commander equipped one after a couple of laps.

Nice John. Trackage looks great too.

Thanks Don, since we were talking about BEEP speeds, I figured I'd give those a run.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I did find these in my BEEP box...

John, I know your post here was quite a while ago, but do you still have one of these boards and is swapping just "plug-and-play?" I just purchased a tuscan PRR #2004 BEEP with chromed handrails, so it will likely have the problem board. Since I just have Z-1000 power, I can't run ERR boards without an upgrade to Legacy which I'm not in a financial position to do right now. The ERR boards themselves are also rather pricey considering I paid just over $85 delivered for the BEEP. Please let me know price & shipping if you still have a board and installation will be fairly straightforward.

Thanks,

ERR boards also run in conventional, legacy is not required to run them.

But, if the boards are good and the beep runs, why change them out?

@Bill Swatos posted:

John, I know your post here was quite a while ago, but do you still have one of these boards and is swapping just "plug-and-play?" I just purchased a tuscan PRR #2004 BEEP with chromed handrails, so it will likely have the problem board. Since I just have Z-1000 power, I can't run ERR boards without an upgrade to Legacy which I'm not in a financial position to do right now. The ERR boards themselves are also rather pricey considering I paid just over $85 delivered for the BEEP. Please let me know price & shipping if you still have a board and installation will be fairly straightforward.

Thanks,

Send an email to my profile address, I'm out of town until Tuesday, so I'll check when I get back.

@Bill Swatos posted:

John, I know your post here was quite a while ago, but do you still have one of these boards and is swapping just "plug-and-play?" I just purchased a tuscan PRR #2004 BEEP with chromed handrails, so it will likely have the problem board. Since I just have Z-1000 power, I can't run ERR boards without an upgrade to Legacy which I'm not in a financial position to do right now. The ERR boards themselves are also rather pricey considering I paid just over $85 delivered for the BEEP. Please let me know price & shipping if you still have a board and installation will be fairly straightforward.

Thanks,

Didnt take too long Bill... 🤣🤣🤣welcome to the BEEP club.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Didnt take too long Bill... 🤣🤣🤣welcome to the BEEP club.

Bob

Thanks, Bob! I was just thinking that if the BEEPs with the "problem" boards run at about half-speed of the newer ones, could the older ones have the two motors wired in series? That wouldn't bother me if the older board doesn't fail under the current load needed to pull a few easy-rolling boxcars at a speed that would approximate scale for the little switcher. From what I understand, Kusan, the originator of the BEEP, intended these little guys to be switchers. Here's a good article on the history of Kusan; they made a LOT more than BEEPs:

http://www.tcawestern.org/kusan.htm

@Darrell posted:

ERR boards also run in conventional, legacy is not required to run them.

But, if the boards are good and the beep runs, why change them out?

Thanks for the insight on the ERR boards; it wasn't clear from the info I had seen that they, like Legacy boards, could run in conventional. And, as my post just prior to this indicates, I'm thinking of taking your advice if the newer board swap doesn't seem like it will work out.

I use mine ( I have 4 ) as small switchers, the stock speed does not bother me as I don't ever run them at full throttle. Two of them I upgraded to TMCC using ERR products, one with the old 'Beep commander', runs the same speed as stock. The other has a new mini commander, runs slightly faster than stock. All mine were of the older board design. The Beeps are geared low to begin with so will never be fast. Well, not post war lionel fast anyway .

There's always Lionchief.

$45, gives you sound, and can be controlled via universal remote, app (must be a bluetooth version of board- often higher price), or if you get lucky and choose the right board- sometimes the matching OEM remote is cheap.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ords=lionchief%20pcb

There's more at play then just the board.  A while back we were discussing this and I had a couple of BEEP chassis, one older and one of the newer ones.  I just slapped a bridge rectifier on each of them, and they ran at very significantly different speeds.

I believe at one point during production Walter mentioned that the gearing was changed? Not sure but think that was one of the improvements that he did.

I don't believe the gearing has changed, I have a box of various vintage motors and wheelsets, and I haven't found any issues with the mix-n-match.

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time!

The guy that knows for sure is Walter.

Well, there's nothing wrong with a BEEP with an "old" board. Here she is at ~3V pushing 3 cars at 14 scale mph:

Now, at ~7V at 40 scale mph:

Finally, at ~9V at 45 scale mph, which is likely as fast as a small switcher like this would go IRL:

So, thanks Darrell you were right! Oh, and here she is at ~11V pulling 8 cars at 31 scale mph:

I also ran like this with the shell removed to check for motor and/or diode overheating. While both motors, the bridge rectifier and the 4 "big" diodes got warm to the touch after 10 min under this relatively heavy loading, nothing got hot. So, overall, I'm really happy with my first BEEP. Next will be a DGLE one like Bob has!

@Darrell posted:

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time!

I talked to Walter, the BEEP gearing has never changed throughout the production.

gunrunnerjohn See it does happen, I must have been thinking of something else...

@Bill Swatos Glad you are happy with it! I think they are great fun little engines.

https://ogrforum.com/...3#154730473923183693

So I was going to start a new discussion here but saw this.  Was there any resolution?  I had a chance to purchase two new in the box RMT GP beeps at an auction this week for about $45 each and jumped right on it.  I have a bunch of o27 and o31 track and am planning a couple of christmas layouts for my grandkids.  Thought these would be perfect on the tight curves.  I have a small test oval set up that I was using to test so “new to me” post war lionel crossing lights etc. with a lionel 41 army switcher pulling 4 cars.  So I put one of the beeps on there, It ran at half the speed of the slow, under powered old 41.  I was shocked.  Tried forward and reverse at full throttle on a small 50 lionel transformer.  So then I took the cars off… still just as slow by itself.  I then got the other one out of the box and the same thing.  Now I need to wonder if they are junk from the factory or if there is something I can do to get them to run?  Any ideas would be GREAT.  Thanks.

@Chills posted:

https://ogrforum.com/...3#154730473923183693

So I was going to start a new discussion here but saw this.  Was there any resolution?  I had a chance to purchase two new in the box RMT GP beeps at an auction this week for about $45 each and jumped right on it.  I have a bunch of o27 and o31 track and am planning a couple of christmas layouts for my grandkids.  Thought these would be perfect on the tight curves.  I have a small test oval set up that I was using to test so “new to me” post war lionel crossing lights etc. with a lionel 41 army switcher pulling 4 cars.  So I put one of the beeps on there, It ran at half the speed of the slow, under powered old 41.  I was shocked.  Tried forward and reverse at full throttle on a small 50 lionel transformer.  So then I took the cars off… still just as slow by itself.  I then got the other one out of the box and the same thing.  Now I need to wonder if they are junk from the factory or if there is something I can do to get them to run?  Any ideas would be GREAT.  Thanks.

BEEPs need TLC right out of the box, especially the ones with the older boards that use audio output chips (?!) to power the motors and lights, which, it seems, you have. One way you can tell right away if you have one of these versions is that the handrails will be chromed, not painted. I have four of these. The first thing I did with each of mine was remove the bottom plate and properly lubricate key components. To remove the plate you will first have to remove the screws that secure the two collector rollers and the ground wire. Then you can remove the eight bottom screws that secure the plate. Regrease the worm and gear drives for both axles SPARINGLY with Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2) grease. I use Yamalube, P/N ACC-MOLDM-GS-10. Also apply a single drop of 85W140 gear oil with a needle oiler to each wheel bearing and the bottom bearing of each motor. When reassembling the bottom plate, make sure the flat side of all four wheel bearings is perfectly aligned with the top edge of the plastic frame before placing the bottom plate and screwing it back in place in the reverse order of what I described for removing the plate. One you have the gearbox buttoned back up, apply a small amount of silicone plumber's grease to the top bearing of each motor. Work the grease down against the motor shaft into the bearing GENTLY with a straight pin. With time and running it will work itself farther down but, due to its viscosity, the grease won't get onto the commutator.

I believe if you do this for your BEEPs, they will do this for you at only 6V on the track (you'll need a third one):

I hope this works for you!

I would not call them junk, but they are what they are. They will never be post war fast, but without a video we can't tell if they are running correctly or if they need some service.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Chris is right, that looks to have a relay behind the wires, I've never seen that board.

It does look to have the tethers, so it may be newer than the original boards

jz>This  is a tmcc upgrade I used to sell at Electric RR for the Beeps.

@Chills posted:

https://ogrforum.com/...3#154730473923183693

So I was going to start a new discussion here but saw this.  Was there any resolution?  I had a chance to purchase two new in the box RMT GP beeps at an auction this week for about $45 each and jumped right on it.  I have a bunch of o27 and o31 track and am planning a couple of christmas layouts for my grandkids.  Thought these would be perfect on the tight curves.  I have a small test oval set up that I was using to test so “new to me” post war lionel crossing lights etc. with a lionel 41 army switcher pulling 4 cars.  So I put one of the beeps on there, It ran at half the speed of the slow, under powered old 41.  I was shocked.  Tried forward and reverse at full throttle on a small 50 lionel transformer.  So then I took the cars off… still just as slow by itself.  I then got the other one out of the box and the same thing.  Now I need to wonder if they are junk from the factory or if there is something I can do to get them to run?  Any ideas would be GREAT.  Thanks.

As a quick follow up to this, I haven’t had much time the last few weeks to mess around with these.  The 3 rail tubular layout that I put them on was the christmas one I put together for the grandkids powered by a small old lionel transformer.  It ran post war steam loco’s great and as I have my big layout under construction it is all I had to test.  Anyhow I put my lionel Z 250 watt transformer on that layout today and the beep ran great.  So, I’ll have to go get my electrical kit from the shop to test things… but it is clear that the beeps require much higher wattage to run well than any of my post war steam engines.  Just thought I would share for anyone interested.

I doubt they require more wattage, it's the voltage that must be the issue.  The ZW does put out more voltage than many smaller PW transformers.

This consist is running at 10V on my Z-1000 which is a 100W (5.6A @ 18V) power supply:

These are pre-WBB Williams extruded aluminum coaches that are not easy to pull and all the incandescent lamps are on (convention party in progress). Clearly, properly operating BEEPs don't draw more than 1.4 amps each.

@Bill Swatos posted:

Clearly, properly operating BEEPs don't draw more than 1.4 amps each.

I don't think it's possible for a BEEP to draw that much, even with a motor stall!   I put one on my test track and then just held it down so both motors stalled, I got 1.25 amps max.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I doubt they require more wattage, it's the voltage that must be the issue.  The ZW does put out more voltage than many smaller PW transformers.

Thanks, I’ll be sure to test it with both transformers.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't think it's possible for a BEEP to draw that much, even with a motor stall!   I put one on my test track and then just held it down so both motors stalled, I got 1.25 amps max.

GRJ, Fun fact; the earlier Beep boards have the exact same components and qty. as the K-Line Porter’s boards. The only difference is the board layout to allow for fitment within the Beep’s shell. And we all know the issues with the K-Line Porter’s boards & motors. Neither are durable enough to run reliably under a decent load. A failing motor will cause the PICs to burn out. Those boards can’t take the amps like the newer boards. I’ve repaired a few Porter boards due to failing motors. I’ll bet the motors in the Beeps are of the same quality given their financial position at the time? I just ordered a few Mabuchi FC-130SA motors to use as replacements for the Porter’s FK-130 motor. The FC-130SA is similar in design as the Beep’s motor but smaller in size like the Porter’s. And double shaft of course. It fits in the Porter chassis by trimming the lower half of the bushing mount on the plastic housing end. This doesn’t affect the bushing mount’s structure. I can post pics of this mod if anyone is interested?

Dan VW