high prices on Lionel freight cars

I am sure that the price of something they have no interest in has no bearing on ANYTHING!!!

Therein lies the problem: Little interest in model trains + expensive train items = the hobby slowly dying except for with older generations....I wish it were different, but that's how I see it.

But would families have more interest in model trains IF the cost were less?

You don't understand my comment.

unlikely

Wasn't sure if it was sarcastic or not.

Why would people have interest in the price of something they are not interested in?  Do you care how much pantyhose cost?

So you don't think there has been many fathers who wanted to start up a layout but looked at the cost and decided against it? I think there is. And the pantyhose analogy doesn't work because as a male there's no scenario in which I would ever have interest in it. (At least I hope not!)

Lionel and others have been trying to produce lower-priced train sets during the general decline starting in the mid-1950s and that didn't help.

Change in trends is one of the largest contributors in the decline of toy trains.  With the rise in slot car racing sets, science fiction-themed toys, etc. interest in toy trains waned in comparison.  Just wasn't the "it" thing anymore.

Also factor in the overall footprint O gauge trains requires and the fact that homes today aren't as large as they used to be prior to WWII.  The average beginner set amounts to a 4 x 8 area of space to set up and run; breaking down and setting up is more time-consuming than setting up an X-box, grabbing a water-propelled rocket or a remote-controlled car/airplane and going outside.  Square footage being a premium in the average home is also why HO and N gauge are more popular; you can do more in the same amount of space or less, and their smaller size also means they take up less storage when not in use. 

Model trains also has the limitation of being physically confined to a specific area indoors, and there's a significant limit to how much you can build or expand.  While video games are also confined to indoor use in general, the virtual realities and numerous levels that games offer gives the consumer a larger "virtual world" where expansion is limited to capacity of the games, not physical.

So no, I don't think price reductions will make significant inroads to making O gauge trains more appealing to families, at least not beyond the seasonal starter-set that is set up during the holidays and broken down not long afterwards.

Yes, at least for my working class family.  I lusted after a Lionel Warbonnett F3 - heaven would have been an AA pair.  But Marx was all we could afford, and only small steamers.  

I think the largest thing that has affected trains is the vast increase in alternatives.  When I was a kid in the early '50s, it was very common for most boys to be given a train at Christmas when they 8-10 years old.  I got mine when I was 9 in 1950.  This was common because there were not many alternatives.  Not all of the boys were interested in trains, and so the trains might have been put into the closet after a year or two.  This may have preserved many of the trains for guys that were really interested in trains.  If you ask young boys about trains, most will not be interested, but the few that are may be interested until they are quite old.

Unfortunately, here's the only way you're going to see those prices again:

Hello,

There are sets to be had if one wants one.

It will not be any of high line stuff,

but for $150.00 + shipping from one of our sponsors ,on sale.

The NY Yankee set ;Berk and 3 cars ,track ready to run.

Now this is not the high line stuff ,but is still a basic train set.

Runs great,looks OK and with some paint will make me a nice train for me

I think we should be pushing things like this for starter sets.

I have a few of these kind of starter sets and for  the price one High line engine ;

One could have a whole table full of trains.

I do like the high line stuff, but unless the lotto hits .

I have trains to run.

quote:

So you don't think there has been many fathers who wanted to start up a layout but looked at the cost and decided against it? I think there is.

Me too.

I know of one family that started out with Lionel "O" gauge, and switched to HO due to cost.

Why, as a matter of fact, I do!!!

signed,

Joe Namath

(Not really.  And unless you're old enough, this will be hardly understandable!!)

KD

This is hard to say.   I see people easily and willingly spending $300 to $1000 just to enter the R/C car and truck racing hobby, which is HUGE business right now since its reemergence many years ago.

I'm not talking about the K-Mart ready to run $50 cars or trucks.    These are highly detailed, build them yourself, models.

Then add in all the customizing you can do with off the shelf parts (different shocks, wheels, tired, motors, etc..)

People are spending big dollars on hobbies.  Maybe not trains (at least O gauge), but they are spending.

Also, a side note.  A university in Texas completed a years long study of video gamers. (I need to find the school and any links to post here)   One thing they found is that one of the largest groups of video game players/buyers are athletes (in order: college, high school, then pro.)   Not quite the popular stereo type of the couch potato.

New gaming systems can run $400 to $600, then there's all the $59.99 games you have to buy.

Again, it's not just a money thing.  as much as we may hate to say it, trains, on a whole, are just not as relevant to people as they were to us back in the day.

Kids and adults can get into the R/C hobby and buy models of the race and street cars they see every day, just as we lusted after trains we may have seen daily chugging down the tracks.

I buy most of my stuff from Craig's List, from dealers at train shows, or from dealers who are not at train shows.  I am an operator, not a collector.  I have a few collectible pieces, but they aren't much fun unless I run them and then they are no longer NIB.  I buy stuff that is not pristine because it doesn't make much difference when I run it how pretty it is.  I touch up the steamers and tenders with a black magic marker and they look pretty good.  I don't have the time or interest to repaint things.  I do lube and repair any locos and cares that need it.  All this keeps the costs reasonable.

I bought a Challenger from Williams 20+ years ago for $1200.  It needs 072 or larger track, so mostly it sits in the train display cabinet.  I bought a Rail King 2-8-8-2 at a train show for $300 which will run on O-31 track.  It has been a good runner.  One day soon I should have a layout for the Challenger.  My interest seems to be primarily in repairing stuff that doesn't work right and running trains on very complex layouts.

My dad tells me the story of how his father (my grandfather) saved his salary for months so he could by my dad the high end Lionel set for Christmas in 1939.   It was a huge deal if you could afford the good stuff from Lionel way back then, just as it is today.

Seeing as Tiffany started this thread, I'll address this mainly to her. So many things have changed since one could find nice-looking/running trains at bottom dollar. The few out there who aren't train people but know about Lionel, for instance, incorrectly assume everything they ever made is now an antique in ANY shape and worth big bucks. Sad. I'm a postwar Lionel guy, a careful shopper mostly, and like you, appreciate the nice Lionel #6356-type stock cars. I have 5 #6356's and have not paid over 25 bucks for any of them, but then shipping comes in, so average it out to about 30 per car or a bit more (without original boxes). Google: <http://www.ebay.com/sch/194569-/4146/i.html?_sop=1> for some good bargains on used Lionel from the postwar era, where you can often find very good deals on cars. Occasionally, a little tinkering is needed (no problem for you, I'm sure) and oiling axles, etc., but that's the stuff that gave rise to the out-of-country knockoff market. INCIDENTALLY, re: other's comments about relative pricing, etc. Don't forget that when most of us were young and the love for trains began, actual trains were a lot more interesting to look at. Freights had varieties of onboard rolling stock, caboose, etc. Now, it's utilitarian viewing: arguably, aesthetically ugly boxy locos with long lines of one type of car, no caboose, little human element. This is hardly the stuff of romance, my friends...

One of the reasons for the low cost is the Weaver PS-1 uses (at least) 20 year old tooling.  If for whatever reason if they had to cut a new tool, you'd see the price jump. 

The more recent Weaver B&O wagon top and Milwaukee Road boxcars list for $72.95.

So, even Weaver isn't immune.

Rusty

Hello Virginian65...........

The only reason I wanted the Lionel stock car #19574 is the Great Northern "sky blue" color and the late model die-cast trucks with the metal coupler armature. I am not a painter. 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678,2003,200

Tiffany

I couldn't agree more. I also buy pre owned/ used Weaver for 50% off or more the price of new and most of my used cars look new. I do the same with Atlas and Lionel and MTH if possible.. There are a Ton of good used 3 rail trains out there.

The only thing Joe Namath cared about was how to take them off.

Tiffany,

I am not sure if you are interested in Ebay or not, however, there are reputable sellers on Ebay. One of them is IWISH4THIS, and another is Perrystoyexchange. They both have Lionel Freght cars in boxes. the first seller mentioned has items starting at $14.95. I have purchase items from both sellers and never been disappointed. 

Perry's is also a toy store in Maryland, and takes pride in the item she sells and goes out of his way in packaging and other customer service areas.

Check it out when you have a chance