How do steam locomotive crews stay warm during the 'freezing' winter?

i can't answer your question about the train crew keeping warm,,,but I sure enjoyed the video..

 

I grew up in the Claypool Indiana area (now live in Fort Wayne) and remember the Nickle Plate when it ran through my old home town of Mentone...We lived a couple of blocks south of the tracks and would always go up to watch the trains pass through town. I am just old enought to remember a few steamers before the switch to diesels

 

Thanks for posting

 

Bill

I never crewed in the real world, let alone the dead of winter, but I did crew on some nasty, cold days at IRM.

 

Even with the windows closed and cab canvass drawn, you basically bake on one side and freeze on the other.  You also discover every little opening, and there's a lot of them, where the cold can sneak in.

 

Rusty

When snowmobiling the heat from the engine would keep everything on the bottom warm. The problem was keeping dry from the melting snow. For the face I used used a full face motorcycle helmet. Have done extremes of running frozen lake beds at speeds of 100 mph with temperatures at -20 degrees Fahrenheit. 

 

It would take one tough guy to roast on 1 side and freeze on another. 

With the exception of the Polar Express movie, I haven't seen too many steam locomotives barreling at high speed across a frozen lake!

 

Rusty

I have those videos and they are great, I am sure it comes down to dress as warm as possible, close the canvas and windows when you could and stuff waste into all the holes.  After that....man up.  I am curious how much better the all weather cabs were such as on the 4449,844 or 3985...I would guess not much better...all that sheet metal has to just radiate that cold at you.

I understand on the ATSF steam engines that under the seats were steam heaters. This information was from an old steam hogger that run in west Texas.

I can't address the question about how crews stay warm, but as far as catching a cold or the flu, you are probably far more likely to be exposed sitting in your office drinking coffee if you come in contact with a large amount of people. You might be exposed to very cold temps on the train, but probably wouldn't have too much exposure to the bugs causing the flu and colds.

Correct. The vast majority of steam locomotives in the "modern era", i.e. mid to late 1930s thru the late 1940s, all had steam heat pipe coils under the Engineer & Fireman foot areas. The UP, with their all weather enclosed cabs, installed a big rack of steam heating coils on the back wall of the enclosed cab (rear walls were clossed up in the fall and reopened in the spring).

 

However, the bottom line is, the front of the Engineer and Fireman got warmer, while anyone else got pretty chilled. 

In the bad old days before mechanical stokers, the fireman's job could be a real man-killer on mountain grades in the winter. They would work up a big sweat shovelling massive quantities of coal and be exposed to icy cold drafts while the train is barrelling along. They were exposed to the weather while taking on water, possibly getting wet. Working between ice and fire on a 16 hour shift, not easy.

Okay, I really did crew steam in real life.  I used to volunteer for the now defunct Laurel highlands railroad and we ran a modified Porter 2-4-0 and tender.  Near the end of the seaon we ran a Halloween special and the outside temp was something like 20 deg F or less by the time we putting equipment away.  I was the fireman on this particular trip.

 

As to staying warm - dress for the weather - no curtain on the back of the cab and if you closed the front cab doors you couldn't see through the door windows.  No usually you'd close these doors anyway and just lean out the side window becasue it cut down on the draft coming through the cab.  The back head of the boiler was not insulated so it would keep you somewhat warm standing still.  What generally would happen is the front side of your legs would be piping hot and your back side would be just above icicle stage.  The engineer was kind of tucked in between the end of the firebox and the cab so he didn't get as much wind and could stay a little warmer.

 

Cold weather had some unique challenges for the locomotive.  The worst probelm was if the hoses between the tender and the engine froze up.  This could ( and did ) lead to disasters results in short order.  No wanting to get stranded you could take a propane torch and slowly thaw out the hose to get water flowing to the injector again. (Just blow hot air at it!!! Do not burn the hose with the flame or you are mostly definitely mmm... let's say out of business) Once thawed out there was a special trick you could do to blow steam back through the hose it the tender every so often.  This was risky business however because you ran the risk of breaking an already stressed hose due to thermal shock and the insane shaking that would occur.  I have heard tales of the water freezing over in the top of tender and cauing a giant air lock situation but I never had it happen.

 

As to the night in question - well hear goes;

 

Left our siding at the SWP station probably around 6:30 pm.  Now this is within yard limits so its perfectly legal to leave the switch as last used.  Our siding was a jog left and then back right and seriously uphill.  Also whenever we hit the siding it was time to stow the whole train so we let the boiler pressure and fire both start dying down before we got there so we didn't have to wait so long to secure the engine.  Therefore if you don't have to stop and throw the station switch you have a much better chance of making all the way in without running out of steam.

Now the freight company kept there gp-9 at the station as well only out on the main.  We knew they had a run later that night as well but they were supposed to head the opposite direction that we had gone.  We were traveling with the engine pushing and the conductor on the back end with a headlight, and airhorn, and a radio as our eyes and ears.

 

Well our train got to the pick up location around 7:30 or 8, ran through the graveyard, put on a little show and headed back.  Now the SWP is in western PA where the Pennsy and B&O used to crossover each other.  There is light industry within a couple miles of all 4 leads from the diamond so yard limits are huge. 

 

When we got close to yard limits we radioed the freight crew who by now should be on duty and getting ready for a nights work.  We got their permission to enter yard limits and proceed to a given point.  This exchange went something like "Laurel highlands #7 to SWP.  Approaching yard limits southbound on B&O line to lumberyard.  What's your location? (this was something like twelve years ago so I'm paraphrasing)  We got a response like "SWP engine such and such at the station platform.  permission granted to proceed into yard limts til point X." 

 

So we continued on until we fairly close to whatever point X was and radioed again.

"Laurel highlands engine 7 to SWP, approaching point X, south bound on B&O trackage.  What's your location?"  the response came "SWP engine such and such at the maintence trailer taking on engine oil.  Laurel highlands engine 7 your are clear to proceed to point Y."  Now between me, the hogger, the firemen's assistant in the cab, and the conductor on the rear nobody said anything but we all knew something might not be right.  The maintenance shed where the lube oil for freight compnay was located was not in their direction of travel.  In fact it was through the station switch and close to the diamond.  The next 5 or 10 minutes was comtemplative silence in the night. 

As we approached whatever point Y was we were now getting fairly close to the diamond and the conductor called out "Laurel highlands train 7 approaching point to SWP engine such and such, where y'all at?"  We now got the very response we were dreading.  "On the ground at the station switch." 

That's right. We're already freezing our backsides off and the crackerjack freight crew never looked at the switch the first time they went through it so when they came back instead of the switch point straight or left it was going right down the middle, and they didn't look that time either. It now about 11:00 or midnite.

 

Now we did try to lend assistance but a 40ish ton Porter just didn't have enough omph to pull an 80+ ton Gp back onto the rails.  That's a whole 'nother story but as to keeping warm until 5:30...

After taking on water from a firehydrant we parked all our equipment out of the way.  The assistant was the hoggers father ( hey its was volunteer steam railroad) and for whatever reason volunteered to stay in the engine to keep the fire from going out even though I banked it.

the engineer and I were both early to mid twenties and had regular jobs to get back to in the morning so with no idea how long this was going to take a little sleep was essential.  We retreated to a caboose, fired up the oil stove and bunked out.

 

The freight company borrowed another diesel from a nearby csx yard to pull the geep back onto the tracks and got to work fixing the switch.  Around five I woke to the borrowed unit heading back down to the csx yard.  I found a radio and contacted the whoever answered for the SWP and got permission to finally bring in our equipment and tie it down.

 

Now the caboose we were in wasn't actually all the way at the end of the train.  the was another caboose behind us.  The funniest thing was I woke up the engineer, Howard, and he bolts up ready to go.  I swear I think he actually jumped down from the caboose platform to the ballast.  Once he steadied himself he took off at full speed for the engine.  Only problem was he had just woke up and we he took off running he was heading the wrong way!  He came to the end of the other crummy and stopped in his tracks.  For all the problems and the fact that it was still in the mid teens temperature wise, the whole scene was hilarious.

 

Any way, park the train, call the boss and tell him your gonna be late and have to explain later and head home for a shower before work. 

 

ps. we never heard one word from the freight company about leaving the switch in our favor, but the crew apparently got quite an earful about the tourist company volunteers paying more attention to the rails than they did!

I remember hearing about that. I think I was working for NS at the time, but the story got around!

Good Evening Mike.  I think you joined up the year after this if memory serves.  The county blessed operation had nothing the LHRR when it came to "interesting" events.  Although I think you were around when we had that Alco S-2 switcher.  Keeping warm in that thing was almost as bad until the emgine warmed up.  The only heat in the cab came from a line off the engine coolant.  Until the engine warmed up - nobody warmed up.

I was with LHRR from 98-99, when I hired on with NS, then did a season with the county's operation in Youngwood with the Alco. If I remember right, that Alco just had a little radiator in front of the engineer for heat? Al's Conrail caboose had a nice, warm oil stove though!

An engineer on Grand Trunk Western 4-8-4 #6319, which had just tied up from pulling the last scheduled steam powered passenger train in the U.S. (03-19-60), said to a reporter, "Steam locomotives were hot in the summer and cold in the winter. But they had a certain personality that diesels just don't have".  Could that just summarize it?

       One can only wonder how firemen endured -30, even -40, below zero temperatures, while taking water out on the Saskatchewan and Alberta prairies, or the Dakotas.

Pneumonia was an ever-present threat for men who worked in extreme temperature shifts. Open hearth steel mill workers, glassblowers and railroaders seem to have been especially susceptible, judging by old death certificates. We don't catch colds from being cold, but having your lungs all but scalded and then frozen repeatedly does damage, especially if you're also breathing irritants. The damaged tissue is more susceptible to infection with viruses or bacteria that bodies would normally clear.

 

The old Railroad Man's Magazine was always full of ads for bursitis cures, too; I'd think an engineer's left shoulder would be the target because of the throttle, but most of them show the engineer rubbing whatever miracle salve on his right--the one that would be out the window in the cold (and also bearing the weight of leaning.)

The Great Northern had weather enclosed cabs. I've also seen pictures with heavy cloth, or something closing the cab from the elements. 

 

I'm actually drawing a blank on the Milwaukee Road and Northern Pacific. 

In spite of "all weather" enclosed cabs on the CMStP&P, GN, NP, UP, SP, CPR, and CN, the Fireman STILL had to climb up on top of the tender to take water. Even at 30 to 40 below zero temperatures!

 

Plus, when the outside temperatures are well below zero, it was still only about 30 to 35 degrees in the cab. People forget that even though it is a hot, working steam locomotive, all that air coming into the firebox for combustion, plus all that COLD steel of the cab does NOT make for a very comfortable environment.

I once rode steam 26 miles in an all weather cab in 35-40 degree weather. We kept the doors closed and it was right comfy. 

 

It's just one little experience, but a real one.

When the 765 went through her first overhaul 1975-79, there were steam pipe radiators between the seats and the outside cab wall - right where the numerals "7-6-5" are painted.  The pipes were rusted out on the bottom and considering that we wouldn't be doing much winter running, we tossed them out and never replaced them.  We discovered that the shop crews or master mechanics were pretty smart:  the valve that turned on the steam heat radiators also controlled the steam lines that kept the tender cisterns at the front corners from freezing and other key points that were prone to freezing.  In other words, if the cab crew was getting cold, it was also time to warm up the tender cisterms!  Human beings- such as we are - will think about our own comfort first but because of the piping arrangement - the tender essentials will also be protected at the same time.