How Much Does a New-in-the-Box Engine Depreciate?

This is in reply to Allan's comments: I think that if you are looking for a particular item as I recently was -- a mint 1990 Hudson 1-700E for display -- and you locate what you feel is a reputable seller, as I did through this forum, you should offer what you think is a fair price to him and buy it if he counters in a reasonable way.  As a reult I got a mint Hudson with case that is beautifully displayed above my desk and both of us are happy.  Did I pay more than I could have had I haggled over a few dollars?  Perhaps.  But is was carefully packaged and sent just as he described it and I couldn't be happier with the result. At about the same time I picked up a scale Williams PC GG-1 for a song from Trainworld so now my NYC heart is really pleased.  Things balance out and usually everyone comes out well in this hobby if we respect each other. Dick

 

quote:

I think all the Lionel initiatives mentioned in the post were part of the Lionel corporation's marketing plan over the years , including the postwar and prewar eras.

 

Please give some examples of the real Lionel Corporation's market manipulation, through the creation of limited editions, low production year end deals, or making items only available in sets.

The only similar action that comes to my mind are their department store specials, which were done for different reasons, not to milk customers.  I am under the impression that those department store specials generally resulted in lower prices / more bang for the buck, not increased customer demand.

Amen to that John!

 

We had a good discussion on pricing going, then!

Could always be worse, fellas...you could be sitting on a stash of baseball trading cards. 

For the orginal poster who wants to sell his mth deisels-summer is the worst time to sell

engines-i just placed 7 items all mint at a really good selling price-not one bid-depressed-how many remember early mth premier sreamers aqnd deisels doubling in price until proto 2 came on the scene-remember tony lash saying buying mth was better than the stock market-what happened to tony anyway-as far as someone seling a item at a high price-you ever think the seller really does not want to sell the item but if someone cannot live without buying the item at the high price-who's unhappy-i've beern buying and selling trains for over 12 years now-i never had a layout and knew after buying 2 scale steamers i was never going to have one-i bought the scale stuff because of the fantastic detail and craftmanship in making these engines from america's past.guys buy what youlike and can afford without robbing the cookie jar for jr's education-he can go to a community college cheaper.i miss the old days when i could justify buying a engine and if something happens where i have to sell i broke even at least.i guess we can just realize these are just toys now enjoy-joe-time to turn mothers picture to the wall and find another hobby-women

Back in the 80's there were the "Service Station Specials," sets (less track and transformer) that were only available in limited quantities from authorized Lionel Service Stations.  The sets contained locomotives and cars in decorations not available through the regular catalog.  If the LHS was not a authorized service station, they weren't able to order it.

 

Then there were the "Famous American Railroad" (and the Flyer counterpart "Historic American Railroads") series that were "supposed" to have lower production numbers than the regular line, although I think the numbers crept up as the series went on.

 

Rusty

I also think depreciation depends upon how desperately you need the money Except for the one or two exceptions, if not in a hurry to sell, you could try 30% off msrp. If you need to sell right now, between 40 to 50% off msrp The 3 engines I have listed now in the buy/sell might have to be reduced. Gotta pay for summer camp for my daughter!

As I recall, one of the best examples of this was the Southern Pacific Daylight GS-4 steam locomotive (#6-8307) that was produced to match the string of passenger cars.  I don't quite recall its original MSRP (perhaps in the $500+ neighborhood?), but I do remember dealers asking as much as $1500-$1900 for it during the collector's heydey.  The wild pricing stayed that way until Lionel produced a few other SP Daylight steamers in the 1990's, which pretty much took the wind out of the collector era frenzy... and it's been a downhill ride since.  Most folks today wouldn't give that 1980's GS-4 a second look -- or at best perhaps paying just a mere fraction of the original MSRP for it.  Funny how time changes our perspective on things.

 

David

LIRR Steamer: Thanks for pointing out some of the Lionel Corp's practices.

 

I wonder what motivated Lionel to put unique cars in some of the sets. Perhaps there was more of a collectors market than I realize. 

 

The bigger picture is the supply has out grown the demand.
The availabity of product has created a glut of rolling stock.
Product reissues have killed any locomotive residual value.
Yet certain engines like the M1b (Lionel) maybe worth what ever the
market will bear!

What cracks me up is the seller that gets terribly offended at an offer!
It's just an offer would it kill you just to say no thanks, I am looking to get x out of it.

Lionel MPC occasionally did this as well.  First examples that come to mind were two of the six JLC boxcars that were meant to go with the JLC loco and bay-window caboose.  3 of the boxcars were offered for separate sale (as a 3-pack if I recall correctly), and a 4th car "JLC - The Man" was  a year-end collectors offering... although it was reportedly produced in unusually large quantities for a "year end collector item", so it never rode the price roller coaster that most cars offered that way typically did.  The other 2 JLC boxcars were only offered in Limited Edition sets that were part of Lionel's collector series line for that period.  One was the JLC - Postwar Years, and the other was the JLC - Golden Years.  Some dealers offered set break-ups for those who wanted the special boxcars, but you'd typically pay dearly for just the JLC boxcar.  It was almost better to just purchase the set, and enjoy the other cars as well or try to sell them off privately. 

 

By and large, Lionel's practice of doing this might be looked upon as "strategic" to uphold an item's value if the collector market stayed in place -- thereby making it much less likely to find complete sets of the entire JLC series in later years.  But the MPC collector era fell apart quite rapidly as more detailed, scale-oriented products were issued in the 1990's and the operator's era firmly took hold.  As they say, the rest is history!    I was happy to sell my entire JLC loco/caboose/boxcar series at a nominal bargain price this year -- nothing special to brag about as far as resale value.  But my interests have changed, so I was happy the items found a home with someone who wanted them.

 

David

Nowadays, it has to be a rare, limited piece which has a high demand.

 

Heck, it doesn't even have to be rare or limited...there just has to be HIGH DEMAND.

 

I guess I'm lucky in one sense that not too many folks (on this forum anyway) collect Seaboard Air Line.  Not so lucky in the fact that the manufacturers concentrate on the RRs most people want and throw the folks like me a bone once in a while.

quote:

Lionel MPC occasionally did this as well. 

 

I couldn't tell you the year, but MPC interrupted my purchases of the 9850 & up series of reefers when they put one of these cars in a set, not available for seperate sale. Until then I had been buying the cars as they came out, and had planned to continue doing so. Rather than buying the set to get the car, I stopping buying the series.

Well, I can tell you, I personally helped the "collectability" of the bland maroon and gold JLC 6-8101 Hudson by taking one out of circulation way back then.

 

Mine ran afoul of my airbrush and this was the result:

"Destroying collector's items since 1979..." 

 

Don't know who owns it now or if it even still exists...

 

Rusty

Some items just seem next to impossible to pick up at a "good deal price" ... like the full K-Line American Freedom Train set with extras.  Or the SP Daylight dome car.

Or Beanie Babies, Rockwell plates, Kincade "art", Franklin Mint "collectables", beer can collections, Hallmark collections, etc.