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A friend asked me to fix  his Postwar Lionel NW. It has a single 3 pole open frame vertical motor (Magne-Traction, a bicycle horn and plastic dummy couplers.) (Probably late 1950; early 1960 vintage.)

I removed the bakelite cap and the armature, cleaned the commutator, cleaned and lubricated the wheels, pickup rollers and gears. Then re-assembled and tested using Z-4000 on Atlas-O 063 circle.

Engine cycled E-unit without problem but would not start on own (4-5 amps at 15-18 volts.) After a bit of pushing, I could get it to start with a lot of growling. Once started it would settle down and run smoothly @ 10volts, 1.5 amps--especially at lower speed. When I increase the speed there can be a lot more growling accompanied by higher amps. Then it settles down and runs pretty smoothly. This behavior occurs in both directions, but less so in reverse.

The bicycle horn is powered by a "C" cell battery. The horn relay works, but the horn doesn"t sound.

Any thoughts on how to improve the starting performance or get the horn to sound?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last edited by ctr
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You have nearly perfectly described the usual problem with these diesels -  what happens is that the lower bearing plate starts floating in the stamped aluminum motor side frames as the factory staking  works loose over the years. This will cause the armature to hop violently and the brushes to jump around in their holders. This typically makes it run much better in one direction, & sound like a coffee grinder in the other.

The old Lionel fix for this was to "dent" the side frames with a punch, some shops used cardstock jammed in to firm up the plate.

I have had good luck using tiny black anodized self-tapping screws into drilled pilot holes to hold the bearing in place.

For a non-destructive fix, which has held up very well for me for several years now, use CRC QD or any non-residue contact cleaner, clean ALL oil & residue from between the sideframes & the bearing, using the nozzle to spray into the crevice.  Dry it out well, several hours or overnight with a light airflow.

Now use the regular "thin"(not gel) CA adhesive("Super Glue", Eastman 910, etc.) and flow the cement into the crevice on both sides, letting it creep in by capillary action to fill the gap.

In about 10 minutes, the loco is ready to be lubed(grease on gears, oil on pivots & bearings/axles - don't forget to grease the lower armature bushing below the worm) and will run like new. 

You can test the outcome before starting the fix by running the engine off the track, with alligator clips for power, holding the unit upright and squeeze the bottom of the aluminum motor side frames with forefinger & thumb, holding that lower bearing plate snugly.  This will allow the motor to run smoothly & quietly.

I have had pretty good luck restaking the fields on these locos, if you look at a copy of the Lionel repair manual, it will show how and where. A sharp chisel works best to spread the staking. Also the other items mentioned are good to check also. Clean the brushes, brush holders, and install new brush springs on the brush caps. As for the horn, make double sure you have a new battery, and use some extra fine sand paper to clean the contact areas of the relay. Give it a sprits of electrical cleaner and blow dry with canned air. You can try giving it a jolt of low voltage electricity from a transformer, six volts is more than enough. Sometimes a tap on the horn while applying voltage will help the contacts clean themselves. New horns are available and are moderately priced. Let us know how you make out. 

Don't get carried away with tightening the staking on those motors. It is fairly easy to distort the motor truck and make the binding worse.
As Rob wrote, the problem can usually be traced to the black plastic cover at the bottom of the motor becoming loose.
That cover acts as the lower armature bearing.
You can move it from side to side while the motor is running, and feel it slow down and speed up.

I used to use paper match sticks with the head cut off to shim the plate to the good position.

I also think that the DC offset of the Z-4000 is not sufficient to activate the horn.

If that was the case, the relay would not activate. In his first post, CTR says the relay works.

Another potential problem: the battery holder may need cleaning to improve conductivity. He can try bypassing everything by connecting leads from a known good battery to the horn. I use an inexpensive Radio Shack battery holder to keep a test battery handy. One lead to a clean spot on the case, the other lead to the terminal where the horn is connected to the relay.

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OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Ste 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
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