How to save a Train Club?

The overhead is debilitating. The Big Bend Model Railroad Association has a local property owner that allows the club to meet in his property rent-free and the club pays only for storage, annual train show facilities and train stuff. It keeps costs low. 

Sam; I envy the fact that you have a club and a large accessible layout in the first place!  There are just too few O gauge folks out here in the wild west to even think of such a concept. Having said that I think its kind of sad to be facing the dilemma you are in. What about a promoted open-house once in a while, with a nominal gate fee that will help to offset expenses? You could offer hot dogs and coffee to help attract folks, at nominal prices. Any chance you can negotiate the rent downwards a bit? The landlord would probably appreciate a little less rental income compared to no rent at all, if it sits vacant. Believe me, if I lived anywhere nearby I would join up in a heartbeat and happily pay my share of expenses. Due to tight curves I just cant run much in the way of scale steam, especially articulated, on the home layout.

Rod

Wow $4200 in rent......and that doesn't cover insurance and what it costs to maintain......as well as service and upkeep of the portable layout.....

As hard as this will be, I would give up the permanent layout and just keep the portable one. This allows you to keep something going. I assume that when you're at venues with your portable layout you take donations and you have a raffle.

We've been in business for approximately 7+ years.  We started out by story modules in each of our homes.  Then we used a small trailer, a larger trailer, and now a huge trailer.  However, our expenses are easily covered by our raffle and donations.

Very sad, I would give anything for a permanent set up.  However, I don't see that in the cards for us and I have to be content with just the portable modular layout.

I feel your pain.

C Sam......people are operating the trains.  Unfortunately, there are still people out there who prefer to be "lone wolves". We meet lots of them when we display.  They are very happy running trains on their own at their home layouts. Clearly, a personal choice. I, for one, love the camaraderie of the group, and benefit from the experience of other members.

My best wishes are with you.

Peter

Drastically cut your costs where possible

You are asking any new members to kick in a substantial amount of money to belong just for the rent on your layout space

As hard as it is, I would dump the standing layout and keep it in storage as soon as you can. That would still cost you something, but much less

As an aside if you believe that you want to keep the display going , see if any local government facility might let you use some space in an old school, etc (as a non profit, there may be some interest)

Follow up with any other scale clubs to see if they can publicize you needs

Best of luck

j

I can't imagine a club covering an overhead like that for as long as you did- over $4k per year for 6 years? I wish I had some magic advice, but our church, the church board, the VFD, and every single civic organization I'm aware of is in the same boat with declining membership.

Pretty simple here - ditch the permanent layout pronto. Get out of that space ASAP. Stick to the modular layout only! Do as many shows as you can handle each year!

Rod,

If you Snowbird in the Phoenix area, drop into McCormick Ranch in Scottsdale. We have a large building housing an O, N and HO scale club.  We meet the first Thursday of each month other than July/August, are open 363 days a year, and run on schedule as well as when track is free.

Thepandprr.com will show you our club and venue.

Ron

C.Sam

Have you checked with the local hospital or community center, often a layout running for the pleasure of the patients and visitors is agreeable to them, several local hospitals have layouts managed by local train buffs.

Ron

C. Sam,

My brother and I are members of successful model railroad clubs.  My brother lives in Florida and I live in CA.  My brother's club pays about $400 per month in rent plus utilities, etc.

My club is located in a city owned building and the rent is $1 per year.  However, the club is responsible for all upkeep.  We just finished raising $15,000 to repaint the building.  The city kicked in $6,000 to help us repaint it (the total cost was $21,000).  I will post photos of the repainted building this weekend.  Our next project is a $5,000 sewer line repair.

It seems to me you have two problems.  1.  You don't have enough members to cover the monthly cost and 2.  your costs are too high.

It seems to me that the first thing you need to do is to raise more money from sources other than your club's membership.  I have a lot of ideas that have worked for my club and other clubs.  You can contact me off line if you want to discuss them.  Is your club a 501 c(3)?

The second problem is to attract new members.  The key to getting new members is to have exciting activities, a regular construction or operating schedule, and to constantly recruit.  Make sure that the local hobby shop, if there is one, has a brochure about your club, have a website with photos of your club, post regular photos about your club and its activities on the OGR forum, etc.  I am also willing to discuss this with you offline.

My email is in my profile.  You can read about my club at:

https://ogrforum.com/t.../the-gandamp-o-story

NH Joe

Suggestion:  Set-up a GOFUND ME Page and try to get the word out through every possible channel open to you.  You may be surprised at the number of contributions you may receive.  Try to get your local media to assist you.  

If you guys could get a dollar each from everyone on this Board you'd be set for a couple of years!

Second, talk to the venues where you have set up before and see if multiple ones could host you for maybe three to six month intervals.  Lastly, maybe there is a museum, shopping mall, abandon rail station where the people in charge would like a display of this type.  GOOD LUCK TO YOU!   I pray something works out.

C.Sam
Each of the 4 Nation Train Clubs (TCA, LCCA, LOTS & TTOS) maintains a national roster of members accessible by its members. If any of your local club members are members of a national group, they could check the roster of their nation club and contact any members in your area.

Tony

Up on "The D & H Bridge Line"

I wish you well in your efforts.  How do you go about collecting membership dues/allowing new members to join?  I ask because I decided I should join our local model railroad club up here--except, there is no information on how to join or donate on the website--A simple--click here for membership information or a paypal donate to help support your local club goes a long way---as for me--if i can ever figure out how to join my local club I will.

One of our biggest fund raisers is that during the Holiday Season (T-giving until after New Years), we "rent out trains" to the public to run.  We have 4 tracks, so we charge $5 for 10 minutes of run time.  This lets parents and kids run trains on a big layout.  We also let the public bring their trains and charge them the same to run their trains when their track becomes available.  By doing this, we get lots of foot traffic and have added many new members.  On weekends, we've made 100+ in a day.  We also couple this with a raffle for a Lionel train set (Thomas, etc) that is $5 a ticket.  We usually can get sets for $75-$100, so we make lots of money on this as well.

Since yours is a permanent layout, you can probably do this year round.  

I hope this helps.

This is at tough one especially with a moderate to high rent payment added to your membership. I might suggest either, one: finding a member or non profit that would be willing to host  your layout rent free. 2nd option take down the permanent layout and just keep the club using only the modular layout, and if possible organize a few more shows using the modular layout to try and attract new members interested in building their own modules.

Pretty expensive. We had a club and a modular layout for a few years; we bought a trailer to do the train show thing. The shows began to fold...but now there has been a show resurgence. Layout was sold, club disbanded. It was to be an alternative to the other club in town (I do belong to that, but...) that keeps getting more and more blue engines with faces on their layout. I don't let my stuff - or me - anywhere near their layout.

To sum up - I have good idea of the problems you have - and it's not the rent (that is steep) or the other costs or the repair - because your problem was our problem: lack of membership. With a healthy membership all things are possible, affordable and - literally - lighter. It got down to 3 of us who didn't always have the "...uh, I have to go walk the dog, but I'll be there to run trains after you set up!" Yeah, I'll tell you where you can walk your dog. Enjoy the warm plastic bags.

I don't have any idea how to increase membership; the other club would get 2 new members per train show; we couldn't get arrested. We were friendly, well-dressed, bathed, had club shirts and nice equipment running at proper speeds on Atlas 3-rail track. We were not looking for many members, just a dozen or so active ones. We never did understand the problem.

I have no idea how to save it; sounds like you are doing everything right (except that rent...but with more members...). We did too. This does demonstrate just how marginal this hobby is in most places (NJ doesn't count); we're just so thin on the ground, and with age comes a lack of physical and psychic energy, of course.

Sympathies. Glad I could help. Cough. Cough. 

Gary Graves posted:

The Big Bend Model Railroad Association has a local property owner that allows the club to meet in his property rent-free and the club pays only for storage, annual train show facilities and train stuff. It keeps costs low. 

You mean the one in Tallahassee, Florida? If so, I was a founding member of that club. They're also the primary reason I left the hobby for almost 20 years, but that's another very long story...

As for the original question, 12 people simply isn't enough to get much done. In any group, only a small percentage will do the 'heavy lifting' and you really need more than that. They're gonna get old(er), die off, move away, lose interest and the normal stuff that always happens. With such a small group, I'd suggest ditching the permanent layout NOW and going with modules.

Yeah, you get plenty of people coming to your events, but you really shouldn't expect many (or even any) of them to want to be members. For most of them, it's a flash moment of something cool, then they move on. Just like if any of them go to a play, you don't expect a high number of them to volunteer for the theater group, do you?

Our modular club is in the same boat regarding the lack of members. We try to attract new members at all the shows we do, but people just don't seem to be interested in clubs of any kind anymore. I think I am the youngest member at 44 years old, and there are more retirees than workers, which makes setting up and tearing down a bit harder.

I hope someone posts a solution, as it seems there are quite a few clubs that fall into this category.

J White

Sam,

   Our club the Black Diamond Society of Model Engineers in Bethlehem Pa have similar expenses as your club. We pay $300 per month rent ($3600/year) to a church who owns our building. When we took over the building we upgraded it with plumbing, heat, lighting etc at our clubs expense. In addition to the monthly rent we also pay for utilities electric, gas, phone and sewer and water.

 What we do to keep member fees down is operate a company store where we buy and sell collections to visitors of our open houses as well as attending local train shows during the year. An example our store will sell lets say a Lionel TMCC diesel engine. Our price would be $300. We buy it for $150. We do allow members of the club to buy at a discount (10%) and if the item does not sell quickly the margin allows us to drop the price to generate sales. We buy O.S, HO, N does not matter. Some may not like what we are willing to buy an item for but we are a 501C and the seller can claim their loss vs the anticipated selling price as a donation on their taxes. I do hate to say it but a lot of the people we buy from are widows whose husbands left behind large collections of trains and they are not prepared to price, sell and ship these using Ebay. We do have quite a few more members about 60 than you club.

Anyway buying and selling is a good way to generate some cash flow for your club. Also advertise that you are looking for new members at your open houses. We have been lucky doing that at our open houses. Send me an email if you need to discuss in more detail.

JohnB

j white posted:

Our modular club is in the same boat regarding the lack of members. We try to attract new members at all the shows we do, but people just don't seem to be interested in clubs of any kind anymore.  

This is the same for a lot of people. Folks used to belong to clubs at an early age, but not nearly as much anymore, due to many things, such as:

• Young people in the work force are asked to do a great deal of overtime as a normal condition of work and find it tough to get any time off anymore, due to companies hiring fewer people and expecting the people they have to work longer than ever before. the idea of "work-life balance" is a punchline now for young people in the work force and they value what little time off they get.
• The changing nature of social interaction. The internet meets the needs for 'fellowship' people would only get from clubs or churches back in the day. Both types are suffering accordingly.
• The splintering of group dynamics in this country. People used to join national organizations, if at all, but now they're forming their own independent local groups which can rise and fall almost at one member's whim.

So, you find your youngest people will be in their 40s or 50s. I don't see that changing. I've read that people think that shriners, moose and other lodges of that type will be extinct in a couple of more generations as it was expected your sons would join when you were a member, and that's just not happening anymore. This story is a good example of that. Even golf clubs are dying because young people can't afford to play golf because it's so expensive and they can't get the time off from work to play a round like they used to.

Frankly, I wouldn't dream of trying to form a model RR club, or any type of club, in this day and age because I think the days of people belonging to clubs is largely over as there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support otherwise.

C.Sam, I've been close to dismantling my club too! Not having enough members to participate in going to display at train shows, not having adequate transportation etc. But the few who have stuck with me is the reason why I keep going. There were several of the members who wanted to rent space for our module layout, but I've been against it fearing what you are dealing with now. The modular layout is stored at my home to save money on renting a storage unit to put layout in. I wish you the best and do what you think is in the best interest of your club.......rogerw.

Thanks for all the input fellas, much appreciated. Am surprised to hear some of your stories similar to ours. "New Jersey not included"  

We charge $100 initiation fee plus a necessary $50 month with $15 mo dues for our out of state members. Used to be only $25 mo for dues until we lost some. We all realize that $50 is WAY too much to pay for a hobby!

At shows we have a donation bottle and may take in as much as $100 - $125 for a 2 day show. At monthly open houses we are lucky to get $2 - $10. Tried a raffle for a Polar Express set once and just broke even....  This won't even cover utilities.

We've had a nice website for awhile that has attracted several folks over the years

https://smokymountainmodelrailroaders.wordpress.com/

We probably will keep the portable layout going for awhile but the 3 primary members are over 70 now and the tables have gotten heavier recently!

Would any of you guys who are in Tennessee/S Carolina/Virginia/N Georgia/E North Carolina like to join for just $15 mo to help keep us afloat? If enough participated we can make it.

We were able to get the landlord to accept $200 mo until September in hopes we could recruit some new people at $25 mo.   

Come September you may see posted on the FS Forum - "Layout for sale" 

c.sam posted:

We charge $100 initiation fee plus a necessary $50 month with $15 mo dues for our out of state members.

Yeah, I have a feeling that may be a great deal of the issue right there.

People don't realize what it takes to keep a club afloat, money-wise, but there's no way I'd pay $50 a month for something like that. I'd find a much better investment in my own layout for that amount, and be able to run it whenever I darn well please.

I suspect that might be an issue for others. Time was, most people had to build everything and you rarely got a layout remotely finished, but there are things now that you can buy ready to go that the old guys never dreamt of. The chance of getting a layout running is way higher than it used to be.

Therefore, do people need model railroad clubs like they used to, to get their train running fix? I suggest they might not.

I'd make it my mission to flat out ask every person who visits the permanent layout if they would be interested in joining the club.  I've visited a local HO club twice a year for the last few years and each time I've spent what seems to be "more time" than the casual visitor only to be essentially ignored by the club members who are very social with one another.  Heck, if they asked me to join I'd likely pick up some ON30 stuff and bring it to the club and beg them to run my stuff on their layout, but they don't seem interested.  I guess they have enough folks because I've never been asked to join.  

Please note though that I don't blame the guys for talking to one another, they likely enjoy each other's company, but on "visitor's day" I'd assume they'd want to sign some folks up.

Other ideas:  maybe loose the website (a small cost savings) and just do a Facebook page and post pictures when you go to the club to show how much fun it is.

Offer "classes" for nominal costs?  Soldering for kids?  Soldering for adults? "different model train sizes", etc...

I personally would join if I was closer. Didn't realize there was a club in that area, been up there a few times.

Do you have strict entry policies? If so GET RID THEM. A group i am associated with has you be in thegroup for a year before you are an official member. 

 Sorry to say, but  model railroad clubs and even model railroaders may be going the way of the Buggy Whip makers. I would say get out while you can.  They're just not buying what you're selling .

You are going to have to have a fund raiser - STAT!

I would start with some invites from youth groups - boys with their Dads  - Cub Scouts, Soccer groups, Soft Ball, or YMCA, Churches, Elementary Schools, Big Brothers, etc. Host this open house before the school year ends.

Make it free or very low admission with a member drive sign up , and take names and numbers of people interested.

Host a raffle with some donated train items you no longer need at the opening.

Have food available - hot dogs , hamburgers, soda pops.

Start a Facebook page with videos of the layout and introduce your members and some of their talent.

You may need to negotiate your rent asap. Cannot see why they cannot give you a break for a few months until you get a few more members on board.

Hats and T shirts are a low cost item as well for good advertising. 

Affiliate with a local hobby shop, or local railroad attraction - its usually a win win for both parties.

Our clubs are growing in Michigan and in the past few years we have had to limit our numbers, we just cannot pack everyone into our basements!

Good Luck Sam and God bless - let us know how you are doing

Cpdaly posted:

Do you have strict entry policies? If so GET RID THEM. A group i am associated with has you be in thegroup for a year before you are an official member. 

Yeah, there was a antique car club near where I was at in Maryland and they had insanely tight entry policies. I didn't want to join (I didn't own my WW2 Jeep yet) but a pal of mine did and you'd think he was wanting to be a Navy SEAL for all the hoops they wanted him to jump through. I heard a couple of years after I moved out that they went under because nobody wanted to jump through all those hoops, and the extremely elderly majority of the club started dying off and moving to warmer retirement communities elsewhere almost at the same time. By the time they saw the error of being so exclusive, there wasn't anyone left and they'd alienated anyone who would have previously joined them.

John C. posted:

Suggestion:  Set-up a GOFUND ME Page and try to get the word

Do it and assuming OGR supports it, publicize it here. You have my pledge for a contribution and my promise to bring this up for a an agenda item to discuss a donation at the next RC3R meeting. We owe a great deal of our club's success to the generosity of Bobby Daniel, Ron Timma and the guys in the train club in Crewe Va.

I do sincerely believe in paying it forward. You have a lot of great ideas and suggestions here. Three I would add would be to:

• Put the remote in the kid's hands and let them run the trains
• Invite the public to bring their trains to run on the "big layout". Our club is planning a "Classic Train Day" at our December display. 
• Look for unused and unrented commercial space. ASK. You may find a spot to set up for free. As a 501c3, you're a tax write-off to the property owner.

John C. posted:

Suggestion:  Set-up a GOFUND ME Page and try to get the word out through every possible channel open to you.  You may be surprised at the number of contributions you may receive.  Try to get your local media to assist you.  

If you guys could get a dollar each from everyone on this Board you'd be set for a couple of years!

Second, talk to the venues where you have set up before and see if multiple ones could host you for maybe three to six month intervals.  Lastly, maybe there is a museum, shopping mall, abandon rail station where the people in charge would like a display of this type.  GOOD LUCK TO YOU!   I pray something works out.

John C. posted:

Suggestion:  Set-up a GOFUND ME Page and try to get the word out through every possible channel open to you.  You may be surprised at the number of contributions you may receive.  Try to get your local media to assist you.  

If you guys could get a dollar each from everyone on this Board you'd be set for a couple of years!

Second, talk to the venues where you have set up before and see if multiple ones could host you for maybe three to six month intervals.  Lastly, maybe there is a museum, shopping mall, abandon rail station where the people in charge would like a display of this type.  GOOD LUCK TO YOU!   I pray something works out.

John C. posted:

Suggestion:  Set-up a GOFUND ME Page and try to get the word out through every possible channel open to you.  You may be surprised at the number of contributions you may receive.  Try to get your local media to assist you.  

If you guys could get a dollar each from everyone on this Board you'd be set for a couple of years!

Second, talk to the venues where you have set up before and see if multiple ones could host you for maybe three to six month intervals.  Lastly, maybe there is a museum, shopping mall, abandon rail station where the people in charge would like a display of this type.  GOOD LUCK TO YOU!   I pray something works out.

 Do what this guy suggested. I'll donate $5.

Sam,

Have you considered doing a show with vendors, etc?  The NRV's 32nd is coming up this November.  We have always made money.  I would be happy to offer advice and help from the Poohbah.

I know $350 seems like a lot but the NRV is paying $1000 plus utilities per month.  That is with 35 - 40 members at $300 per year.

George Lasley

Do you have space in the club for a couple of 8 foot tables and chairs? If so, advertise the space to be used for birthday parties. Fill the tracks with Thomas locos and cars, hand over the LionChief remotes and let the kids have fun. The parents can bring in their own food, drinks and cake. 

Good luck!!!

Our club is more fortunate in that we are in a town park and supported by the town who owns the building and takes care of utilities. Our annual dues is $20 and life member is $300. We do raise donations (not much) at the door but it is free to visit our layouts.

I cancelled gofundme just today as it is hard to raise money for model trains vs people in need.

Best of luck.

 Is there a local museum that might be interested in a permanent layout ? Maybe they could find some room rent free for you. This may benefit both parties. People who come to see the trains will also stay to look around the museum and vice versa.  We do it up here in Detroit. They also sponsor our modular layout....

Concern Modules:  Consider LCCA, or a Texas group's modules.  If several cubs within driving distance do a meet, you could come up with a MONSTER layout for shows.  The group in Austin TX has even smaller modules, and I have seen them run 60 car trains with 4 MU diesels, and huge power supplies!  The Austin group might have their plans online.

And this brings up another issue:  May clubs build super large layouts without asking if in the long term they can afford the money or time to maintain them. Some clubs have modules which would strain the TE of a UP 4000.  Most kids eyes light up with a few trains with lights, a little sound, and some motion.  Think KISS!

I have seen layouts in store and/or malls.  I thought that was a good idea; it brought kids to the trains.  But now I am really dead AGAINST it, outside a hobby shop.  You are at the mercy of the facility.  Second, the layout brings kids and parents to shop for things other than trains.  Is the shop/mall trying to "hook" kids into the false gradification of shopping?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Concern Modules:  Consider LCCA, or a Texas group's modules.  If several cubs within driving distance do a meet, you could come up with a MONSTER layout for shows.  The group in Austin TX has even smaller modules, and I have seen them run 60 car trains with 4 MU diesels, and huge power supplies!  The Austin group might have their plans online.

And this brings up another issue:  May clubs build supper large layouts without asking if in the long term they can afford the money or time to maintain them. Some clubs have modules which would strain the TE of a UP 4000.  Most kids eyes light up with a few trains with lights, a little sound, and some motion.  

I have seen layouts in store and/or malls.  I thought that was a good idea; it brought kids to the trains.  But now I am really dead AGAINST it, outside a hobby shop.  You are at the mercy of the facility.  Second, the layout brings kids and parents to shop for things other than trains.  Is the shop/mall trying to "hook" kids into the false gradification of shopping?

Dominic, 

I am a member of the Austin Tinplate Trackers group.  Our module specifications can be found of the Articles section of our website (link in my signature).  We also have diagrams of past layouts and pictures/videos. 

Allan:

Thanks!  I love it when ya'll run four Jenks blue MP diesels with a long string of cars.

All:

I think this is the way groups are going to have to go, unless you can own a place.  And even that could come into question!

And if you do not have a public layout, one does not have to worry so much about liability!