I could use a little help identifying what I bought.

Well it is Lionel, it is a GP38, have you had the shell off???   How do you know it was all black??  The 5 chime horn is a common part....

Marty

The heat shrink like tubing showing on the coupler shanks would seem to indicate they are electrocouplers.

The one picture is a little blurry, but it looks like there might be wires coming out of the coupler shank.  That's the certain sign that they are electrocouplers.

-Dave

The run/program switch is a giveaway that the loco has TMCC.

RoyBoy posted:

The run/program switch is a giveaway that the loco has TMCC.

I disagree with this statement only because if memory serves (which it may not) the "command ready" engines had these switches but they did not include all the required electronics for TMCC.  I do believe this engine does have TMCC because of the aforementioned electro couplers.  Yes, those are definitely electro couplers on the pictured engine.

No I haven't had the shell off yet.  Seller stated it was all black and that he added the horn.  I thought GP38s had more than two roof fans, that's why I thought maybe the dynamic brake blister was missing, possibly when it was re-painted. I thought the built 2-98 by Lionel may be a hint.  I'll have to see if I can acess a 1998 catalog.

The roof looks like it was likely repainted. There is some paint in a few places that does not look factory done.

GregM posted:

RoyBoy posted:

The run/program switch is a giveaway that the loco has TMCC.

I disagree with this statement only because if memory serves (which it may not) the "command ready" engines had these switches but they did not include all the required electronics for TMCC.  I do believe this engine does have TMCC because of the aforementioned electro couplers.  Yes, those are definitely electro couplers on the pictured engine.

 Here's another "Fly in the ointment".   I have a Lionel New York Central GP9, (6-18563) that is TMCC equipped and it originally had Manual Couplers.   I up-graded it to electro couplers myself.

Chief Bob (Retired)

Appears to be the GP-38 shell mounted on a GP-7/GP-9 frame. On the GP-38 frame, the frame handrails should line up correctly with the cab.

Good time to look inside. Original paint might be seen inside and you should look at the battery anyhow. If its low or dead your sounds like shutdown are cut short if it is Railsounds and running on track power only.  My RS and TMCC seem to require occasional "all day" power downs when it's low, it's actually seems better on not glitching when dead, lol.

 Got any old catalogs, would  blt. 2/98 help?

Lettering/printing on the frame looks a lot like the 18569 CB&Q GP-9 from 1998 Classic 1 catalog.

So it seems like I'll have to take the shell off to help determine what I've got. I would like to give it a test run on my temporary, conventional layout.  That should be okay with the one switch in the run position, correct?

coach joe posted:

No I haven't had the shell off yet.  Seller stated it was all black and that he added the horn.  I thought GP38s had more than two roof fans,that's why I thought maybe the dynamic brake blister was missing,

Something fishy with the top of hood area, where the dynamic brake "blister" would be, if the unit was indeed equipped with DB, is the engine exhaust stack is for a turbocharged prime mover (NOT the twin standard stacks for a roots blown GP38). Also, since the hood seems short for a 16 cylinder EMD prime mover, I'm wondering if the modeler was trying to make a GP39 Alaska unit, which has a turbocharged 12 cylinder 645 prime mover, i.e. shorter with the turbo stack.

possibly when it was re-painted. I thought the built 2-98 by Lionel may be a hint.  I'll have to see if I can acess a 1998 catalog.

I looked at my 1998 catalogs and did not see a GP-38 or GP-39 listed. May be I missed it, but I don't think so. My guess is the shell has been switched. I do not think the shell has been altered, other than the 5 chime horn and paint job. I think that is the way Lionel made them. ("Artistic licence")

Chris

LVHR

Originally posted by coachjoe:

No I haven't had the shell off yet.  Seller stated it was all black and that he added the horn. 
I thought GP38s had more than two roof fans, that's why I thought maybe the dynamic brake blister was missing,
 possibly when it was re-painted.

The Dynamic Brake was an Option for the RR to purchase, not standard equipment.

From the poor paint job [as one can tell it's bubling on the roof] if you don't like it, then it maybe a good project to redo OR strip it for parts, esp if it has TMCC.

I have the first year Lionel "GP38"  which the shell looks just like the one on this engine. ( the top of the long hood is more like a GP39 and not a GP38)  My GP38 is a KCS railroad model and has the can motors in the trucks,  this engine has the Lionel GP38/GP39 shell on a GP7/9 frame due to no can motors in the trucks, hand rails offset on the cab.  Also note cam and switch on one of the axles on the pictures on this repainted engine.

Can search the www.lionelsupport.com website to see what the GP-38 shell looks like without the dynamic brake blister. Quite a few examples on it.

Check the 1997 catalogs, too.

Larry

coach joe posted:

So it seems like I'll have to take the shell off to help determine what I've got. I would like to give it a test run on my temporary, conventional layout.  That should be okay with the one switch in the run position, correct?

Yea, you won't screw anything up. Maybe lock yourself in one direction or neutral, but that is a feature. Sometimes those switches are even installed backwards. No worries, just a possible five minutes of needing to figure it out

PUFFRBELLY posted:

GregM posted:

RoyBoy posted:

The run/program switch is a giveaway that the loco has TMCC.

I disagree with this statement only because if memory serves (which it may not) the "command ready" engines had these switches but they did not include all the required electronics for TMCC.  I do believe this engine does have TMCC because of the aforementioned electro couplers.  Yes, those are definitely electro couplers on the pictured engine.

 Here's another "Fly in the ointment".   I have a Lionel New York Central GP9, (6-18563) that is TMCC equipped and it originally had Manual Couplers.   I up-graded it to electro couplers myself.

Chief Bob (Retired)

I did the same thing on several of the first edition TMCC GP9 engines I bought.  Still have most of them.

ed h posted:

Lettering/printing on the frame looks a lot like the 18569 CB&Q GP-9 from 1998 Classic 1 catalog.

Now that's interesting.  I swapped the shell on this same engine with a Conrail GP-7 shell from engine 6-18826 that came with the DC can motors in the trucks.  Guess someone else decided they didn't like the CB&Q version.

Well I finally got this GP9/38Lite on the temp test track and she performs well in conventional mode.   She's got a single Pullmor motor, directional light and an apparent strobe lite that had no where to go in the GP38 shell so it was blinking out of the bottom by the front truck.  I pulled the shell to see what was underneath.The ring connector in picture 4 seems to be holding the flashing strobe lite in place in the clear bracket.  The last picture shows a second set of screw holes on the front end, closer to the motor, needed to allow using the GP38 shell on theGP9 frame.  I didn't notice very much of a sound change with speed but the layout isn't very big.  Sounds are very loud so I'll need to turn the volume down.

That is a TMCC package with RailSounds.  If you have a TMCC Cab 1, you can lower the sound hitting the Aux 1 button and then #4 on the key pad.

Marty

So it appears this repainted GP38 is actually a '98 vintage TMCC GP9.  Even though the repaint looked better in the Ebay photos than it is, it's not horrible and $85.00 for a TMCC engine isn't bad at all.  I'll have to dig out my command base and remote and GP9 template from the NYC GP9 I've got to see if it all works.  I may switch the shell with a Williams GP9 shell I've got.

I just received a GP7/9 shell painted in the GN Big Sky Blue pint scheme.  Once I get some window, head light / marker light / number board lens I think the GP38 is done.  Does anybody know what size screw goes in the ends of the GP9 to hold shell to frame.  The existing shell is held to frame through holes in the bottom but the frame does have the vertical tabs with holes like older GPs.

$85 is a great deal....TMCC, a killer sound system and about a lb of drawer pull...you can't beat that....This vintage group of early TMCC Geeps is excellent. Enjoy!

Peter