I guess trains arn't fun toys anymore

I run Generals and old K-line Porters, putting me on the "toy" end of the spectrum, and everything I want is in the RTR catalog.  The best one in years.  At good prices.  That some folks sometime seem to forget exists? 

Thank you Lionel, for ALL of it.

Am I to understand that scale model railroading can't be fun?

Rusty

As someone who just got into the hobby about 8 years ago I love it!  I remember my big brother getting a set in the early sixties, and I played with it more than him.  Having never had sons I got back into the hobby for my own enjoyment.  I am now going to be a grandfather and will be introducing my grandson to o gauge trains asap and.  If I have my way he will have a Polar Express under the tree before his first birthday!  Meaning this Christmas!  LOL

Apparently so, Rusty. I really don't understand why some people think that way. Fun is what you make it. I love building models and creating realistic scenes. That's fun for me! However, that may not be fun for those who love the toy aspect. To each his own.

All I can say is-- play with your trains anyway you wish but please don't assume that I'm not having fun because it doesn't fit your prescription for enjoying the hobby.

 Oh, by the way, I totally get the original poster's comments and agree with his sentiments. My missive is directed at those who seem to have an issue with model railroading as opposed to toy training.

SeattleSUP,

No disrespect intended, but the HO/N comparison sounds like a cross between a nirvana fallacy and circular reasoning.  It's all relative.  You could take your argument and also say that O lends itself to more realism than G or #1 gauge because you can model wider curves in a given confined space in comparison.  Or Modelling in Z scale would be better than either HO or N because its even smaller size will allow for even more realistic results since you can make even wider, sweeping curves. 

As to the wiring aspect, I was being specific to layout wiring, not locomotive electronic interfaces.  Granted, DCC lends itself to far greater "plug and play" between different locomotives but there's one glaring thing DCC, in its current state, gives it a disadvantage over DCS or TMCC, and that is you cannot operate DC and DCC engines on the same track at the same time.  With TMCC and DCS, you can operate ANY vintage train, whether it's a tinplate train from the 1920s or the most sophisticated command control train, and be able to do so on the same layout at the same time.  That, in combination with the early limitations of decoders in a higher amperage environment, is why DCC never made the cut in 3-rail O gauge.  And historically, DCC has always been more expensive from a hardware ramp-up cost over TMCC & DCS.

"The model railroad equipment & accessories we sell are not toys, and are not intended for use by children under the age of 14." - Trainworld/Trainland website disclaimer.

What, me worry?

Your point?

Someones disclaimer hardly qualifies as the definitive answer on this subject.

My 7 year old grandson has a Red Ryder BB gun even tho the Daisy website states:

The Daisy Red Ryder is recommended for ages 10 and older with adult supervision.

Jerry

Teenagers play with toys.  They're just more expensive toys.

"The difference between the men and the boys..."

Rusty

Refer to the thread title expressing the originator's conclusion.  Presume adult supervision is provided to your grandson, or else ...

What, me worry?

My advice........well, yeah pull down yer pants and slide on the ice. Actually why not take a bit of a breather from messing with trains. Say a month or so...but stay in touch by reading OGR.  Works for me............

He plays with his trains with out adult supervision for the most part unless he's down the basement then he always wants me along anyways. He's quite capable of running them and taking trains off the track and getting out others to put on and play with all by himself. He's more like a kid from back in the 50s and 60s in that respect, very capable of doing things like that all by himself without hurting himself or causing mayhem.

Of course he doesn't play with the BB gun by himself but the train disclaimer doesn't even say that it's OK with adult supervision to play with them under the age of 14.

Just how did they pick 14 as the watershed mark, seems like lawyerese BS to me. It takes someone 14 years to be capable enough to play with a toy train but in just 2 more years we'll let you drive a car.

And speaking as a former 14 year old boy I can tell you from experience most normal 14 year old boys are more interested in 14 year old girls than trains regardless of the cost of the train or it's detail or faithfulness to prototype so if that's where they start their marketing at they aren't going to get many nibbles.

Jerry

Close, the age requirements on how you can market toys within certain age groups was changed a few years ago by the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act of 2008.    Without getting granular with the details, in essence the safety requirements to permit toys including O gauge trains to be certified & marketed to children ages 8 and up as it used to be now has more stringent safety requirements to still certify & market to that minimum age category.  Rather than go through the considerable expense to make their products compliant to sell to that minimum age group the O gauge train manufacturers/importers simply raised the minimum age recommendations on their products to the current 14 and up.  I don't think that alone is necessarily going to stop anyone from buying a toy train set for their 13 and under offspring, nephew, or what have you.

To John Korling

     How can you run a conventional train on a DCS layout when the track voltage is fixed at 18V? You know you can't.  Likewise, to run at DC loco on a DCC layout you change the the source voltage to variable DC. 

You don't have to run DCS & TMCC at full 18 volts.  I've been able to run TMCC & DCS trains fine as low as 14 volts, using variable voltage either with the TIU if you use DCS or a PowerMaster/TPC with TMCC.  With a conventional engine that is pulling a heavy enough train so that it doesn't take off like a jackrabbit and maintain speed within that range, it can be done.

The bigger point is that you can run a conventional train with an active command signal present on the track and with no ill effects.  Just vary the voltage using the aforementioned TIU or Powermaster/TPC.  The conventional train won't know the difference.  You can't run DC and DCC at the same time, period.  You can switch to one or the other, but not both, at least not without having to deal with some undesireable side effects like noise from the DC only engines due to the higher frequency pulses generated by the DCC signal, and potentially causing premature motor burnout in the long run.  See how hot the motors get on a DC-only engine if it's left to idle on powered DCC track for prolonged periods of time.

"'til her daddy takes the T-Bird away?"  

I don't care how much play value a builder puts into their products, if the people who use them forgot how to have fun the end results is boredom.

That said, when we fork over hundreds of extra dollars for a train because of the advertised detail and high tech electronics then the manufacture bought into the complants when we are disappointed. It all goes with the truf.

For those who think that we are paying to much for our trains, you are probably right. But, then if we got another fifty thousand people to buy those high end engines along with us the price would come down.

When a company builds a thousand items is cost them far more per unit then when they build fifty thousand units.

Again, the bottom line is to learn to have fun with what we have and don't expect things to full a personal void. 

I don't see the point of lamenting the death of toy trains as toys. Today's highly detailed, fragile, expensive scale trains are toys for adults - but there are plenty of trains out there that are great for kids. (On a side note, when the girls next door were little, I would occasionally invite them into the train building and let them run the trains with the TMCC remote. I always hoped they wouldn't tell somebody at school that "The man next door lets us play with his adult toys!") My grand-niece and grand-nephews were fascinated with the Hogwarts Express set I gave them a couple of Christmases ago. You can still get many of the same Lionel operating cars and accessories that I played with when I was a kid. And, you can get more tinplate - the "toy-est" of all toy trains - than you could in the Fifties. I've got a loop of Standard Gauge running around the outside of my 3 lines of 0 gauge, so you can see a tinplate 385E passing a scale brass Northern passing an ETS tinplate Crocodile passing a postwar Hudson. Fun is what you make it. 

I thought it was important to quote the great words of the original post. I could not agree more!

I love looking at the new things even though my train budget is not big enough to buy all that I want. I am happy with the trains I can buy. Even though I prefer Lionel I am grateful for all the manufactures for driving up the quality while keeping the prices down. If I hit the lottery I know I could spend $50000 and not blink an eye! I would be one happy puppy too! I would have to buy a bigger house to play with all my new toys. The truth is if I don't hit the lottery I am still a happy puppy, I love my toys!

As for the recommended age, I don't let lawyers and politicians tell me what my grandsons can play with. My boys are only 4 and 5, they love their floor layout figure 8. I can sit in my chair and watch them play for hours on a rain day. O gauge seems to be perfect for them and they don't care that their hot wheels and matchbox cars are not true to scale. They don't care what they put in their gondolas and if it is prototypical. They love the bells, whistles and the crew talk. Watching them reminds me of how I should approach my trains, just have fun with them!

I think this is the golden age of toy trains based on the quality and variety available.

Bottom line:  Trains are still fun for me, just as they have been over nearly all of my long lifetime.  If they're not fun for you, you have my sincere sympathy.  Do take some time to find a leisure pastime you can enjoy.  Life is very short and all too fragile.

Yes; some might even consider taking up a hobby.

Groucho Marx!...I should have amended earlier comments to yes, they are not toys anymore and we are not kids any longer. Case closed. Debating this to the Nth degree is like shoveling sand into tide, when the roar of the rails calls us to plug in whatever it is

to travel to a less contentious place.

Not at all Rusty.  Not my intent in my posting above.

I, for now, just find it more relaxing to see the trains as toys and not concern myself, like I used to, trying to pretty up the surroundings.  I still do some scenery with my tin-plate running around, but not nearly as detailed as I used to.

- walt

Mike,

You are free to read whatever you want into a post that someone makes!

There are posts, like mine, that talk about how are interests in the hobby have changed over the years.  My own personal move to scale trains has been influenced by my own involvement in the hobby leading to an interest in learning more about real trains and railroading history. This in turn has lead to an interest in more prototypical model trains.  This doesn't mean that folks with scale trains are more "grown up" than those with postwar trains or any other niche in the hobby.

I will say that other favorite niche in the hobby is prewar tinplate.

Jim