LOL...thanks, Bryan.

So Microsoft is finally going to stop supporting Internet Exploder. They're only about ten years too late. I don't use it (other than to test new pages in our web site. If they work in IE 11, they will work anywhere.) and have never used the Microsoft Office 365 suite. We use Open Office here. It is a free and open source office suite that does everything the bloated and expensive Office 365 stuff does.

I am reminded of a story that relates to this.

A helicopter pilot in Seattle got caught in a heavy fog in the downtown area. He was really in a jam, but slowly and carefully maneuvered his chopper until a tall building came into sight. He was only a few feet away at about the 20th floor, and could see people at the windows looking at him. He quickly scrawled a note on a piece of paper and held it up so the people in the building could see it. The note said, "Where am I?" Someone in the building grabbed some paper and wrote an answer. He held it up and it said, "In a helicopter." The pilot knew immediately that he was looking at the Microsoft building. How did he know that? Because it was a perfectly accurate answer that told him absolutely nothing. That's Microsoft all the way.

You were right, I did get a kick out of this.

I wouldn't get too excited...

There's always Microsoft Edge...

New Logo...Same Programers.

@MartyE posted:

I wouldn't get too excited...

There's always Microsoft Edge...

New Logo...Same Programers.

LOL!  Are we SURE it's the same programmers? 

In my limited Edge experience the first thing I noted was no more right click to get access to the handy pop-up menu that lets you do common things, the primary one I use all the time being the "back" button.  Every version of Firefox and IE has probably had that for 15 years or more.  And Edge decided it wasn't worth it to leave that the way it was.  Instead I have "Select All", "Read Aloud", and "Print".  While maybe useful, those are hardly things I need to be able to quickly bring up and select with a quick flick of the finger.

-Dave

One word: Firefox.

@Rich Melvin posted:

One word: Firefox.

I used to use Firefox and went to Chrome.  I was having issues on multiple platforms and machines with Firefox slowing down and bogging the system.  They all have their plus and minuses but Explorer was always way more minuses.

@Dave45681 posted:

LOL!  Are we SURE it's the same programmers? 

 

-Dave

Maybe not but it comes from the same company.  I can't imagine it will be that much better but we all use what we get used to.

Yes, Edge will be the new crummiest browser.  Given how IE works (or doesn't), you would've thought they stopped supporting it years ago.  +1 for Firefox.

Brendan

@MartyE posted:

I used to use Firefox and went to Chrome.  I was having issues on multiple platforms and machines with Firefox slowing down and bogging the system.  They all have their plus and minuses but Explorer was always way more minuses.

I don't like Chrome because of all the privacy issues. It tracks every web site you visit and sends all that data to Google. And you cannot shut that off. I am just not comfortable with that.

Firefox doesn't do that, and you have a lot of control over your privacy in that browser.

@Rich Melvin posted:

One word: Firefox.

I've been mostly using Firefox since the beginning, or when Mozilla ended up there as the ancient Netscape Navigator went extinct.   (I didn't go review the timeline, so that might not be 100% the way it went, but you get the idea of how long I've been a FF user)

I only use IE at work, because there are some internal utilities we use that just don't work right with Firefox.  They started installing Edge on our PCs, but I don't use it really unless necessary for the same reason.  The few times I tried it, I found it unbearable to use.  MS trying to redesign the basic functionality immediately turned me away.

I too refuse to install Chrome for the privacy reason.

-Dave

I also prefer FF over Chrome or IE/Edge. All the buttons are where I know they are. 

I use Firefox with strong privacy settings.  I use Chrome as backup for the few sites that don't work on Firefox with those settings.  I haven't used IE for many years and I've never even seen Edge because I use Windows 7.

I like Firefox because it is flexible.  With Chrome you get what you get.  However, later versions of Firefox have become less flexible.  One example is tabs below the toolbars.  Another is the ability to drag shortcuts to the desktop.  Because of this I have updates disabled - I only update when I feel like spending half a day to change config settings and policy  files.  Also, lost my Red Cats - Blue Flavor theme as old style third party themes are no longer supported.

I have Open Office installed but I continue to use Office 2010 because it was paid for long ago and does not depend on the internet.

Edge is actually built on top of the Chromium project which has the layout rendering and JavaScript engines that are part of Google Chrome.

@MartyE posted:

Maybe not but it comes from the same company.  I can't imagine it will be that much better but we all use what we get used to.

They've already dumped Edge in favor of Chrome. The new Edge is Chrome based.  Not sure it's happened completely just yet, but at some point it's supposed to replace the original Edge. 

Opps, someone one beat me to this above, while I was fiddling with something else while trying to post...

@penn station posted:

...........................

I like Firefox because it is flexible.  With Chrome you get what you get.  However, later versions of Firefox have become less flexible.  One example is tabs below the toolbars.  ....................

That is probably my biggest complaint in terms of "upgrades" they have done over the years as well. 

It was very Microsoft-like how they non-nonchalantly took away the ability to configure that and just said, "well, they are up at the top now, you will have to get used to it".  Wait... what??!?!!?.  With no better alternatives (as annoying as it was, there is no way it was going to prompt me to switch to IE! ), I still am using it though. 

The number of times I switch tabs is many, many times the number of times I type something directly in the URL bar, so it was much nicer when the tabs were right above the content of the page. 

There used to be a work around by doing something in a folder (ironically called "chrome", which worried me a bit if they are using Chrome elements), but I don't' know if it works with the most recent versions.  It's probably been quite some time since I went to the work of applying it after an update to a new version of FF reset them to the top.

-Dave

I love(d) Firefox!  Now using Edge but don't like it for the reasons mentioned.  With the same homepage on each, Edge is there is one second.  Firefox takes anywhere from 7 to 20 seconds.  Have tried every "fix" for FF I could find, all to no avail.  I am too impatient I guess.

@Bucky posted:

I love(d) Firefox!  Now using Edge but don't like it for the reasons mentioned.  With the same homepage on each, Edge is there is one second.  Firefox takes anywhere from 7 to 20 seconds.  Have tried every "fix" for FF I could find, all to no avail.  I am too impatient I guess.

Firefox has been slowing down.  That is one of the reasons I don't use it anymore.  Pages would take forever to load.  Didn't matter the machine or operating system.

Firefox at home (for many years now) and Edge at work. At work they spent a year or so evaluating Chrome and Edge and opted for Edge. Actually the roll-out hasn't happened yet. Looking at November.

Interesting to see the various comments above.

@Dave45681 posted:

That is probably my biggest complaint in terms of "upgrades" they have done over the years as well. 

It was very Microsoft-like how they non-nonchalantly took away the ability to configure that and just said, "well, they are up at the top now, you will have to get used to it".

-Dave

Yes, that's why I freeze the software and versions I use whenever I can.  I updated Windows 7 for the first time in five years this January.  With Firefox I got tired of my bank's site telling my browser was out of date after a couple of years.  So I upgraded and found out they broke my favorite theme and the customization I needed.  I switched to Chrome but that is even worse in terms of customization.

I found some instructions to fix tabs and some other things so I upgraded Firefox again and fixed it up.  Then one day it was all gone because of auto-update.  They even may it hard to disable updates but it can be done with an enterprise policies file.

I am happy for now.  I did notice a big improvement in site rendering and speed with the newer versions.  I am currently on version 69.0.3 64bit.  I was running version 22 until last year.

I have attached a summary of the key fixes.  I also tweak additional config settings.  These changes have only been tested on version 69.  This document is only for reference - don't dive in unless yo are fearless - the web has lots of info.

This was the theme I used for many years - no longer usable.  The cat with the ball wagged its tail while sites were loading.

I have windows 10 Chrome. i have never had a problem with it.

@penn station posted:

........

I have attached a summary of the key fixes.  I also tweak additional config settings.  These changes have only been tested on version 69.  This document is only for reference - don't dive in unless yo are fearless - the web has lots of info.

Thanks for that summary file!  I read through the tabs part, and it looked very similar to what I recall going through.  I did not know the specific info that newer versions stopped looking in that chrome folder.  That explains why mine stopped working a while back even with the folder/file created and still there.

I forget exactly what it was now, but there was an extension I had a while back that got killed off along with your kitty cat themed one.

I honestly had to check the version I am on, since I do (for now) allow auto-updates (I don't for most things, I normally check the "ask me" box).  I might have to consider slowing that down, it's getting ridiculous.  I'm at 79.0 (64 bit).  Supposedly the best idea for security purposes, but a lot of other garbage included with those updates as well.  So obviously I will do my own research as well if I do try to mess with things again.

-Dave

@eddie g posted:

I have windows 10 Chrome. i have never had a problem with it.

Other than Google and Microsoft know EVERYTHING you do on your computer.

No thanks, I'm not willing to give up that much of my privacy.

These programs evolve all the time. Not that big a deal, except having to figure out and get used to a different format, which can be a pita. The car companies aren't making 10 year old cars, either; the new ones are full of all kinds of changes, upgrades, different operating systems, etc. That's the way with everything of a technical nature. Even golf clubs. I see Microsoft is dropping support of Word 10 this fall, also. More changes to get used to (and pay for!).

@Rich Melvin posted:

Other than Google and Microsoft know EVERYTHING you do on your computer.

No thanks, I'm not willing to give up that much of my privacy.

Well you convinced me to give Firefox another shot.

@breezinup posted:

These programs evolve all the time. Not that big a deal, except having to figure out and get used to a different format, which can be a pita. The car companies aren't making 10 year old cars, either; the new ones are full of all kinds of changes, upgrades, different operating systems, etc. That's the way with everything of a technical nature. Even golf clubs. I see Microsoft is dropping support of Word 10 this fall, also. More changes to get used to (and pay for!).

True, but they also aren't randomly deciding the pedals on the floor should be in different order or moving the steering wheel, instrument cluster or climate and radio controls too far from their traditional locations. 

Though I will admit one time one rental car a colleague had on a business trip (about 10 years ago) floored me a little.  It was a Toyota Yaris and the speedometer and some other gauges were in the center of the dashboard.  I don't know if the official reason is documented anywhere, but I wondered if it had to do with being able to use the same dash parts for cars sold with left and right hand drive.  Apparently I'm not the only one who ever wondered this  It looks like in later years it was more traditionally located.

So maybe a 2010-ish Toyota Yaris is the web browser of the car world...

-Dave

Give Opera Browser a shot.  Free download.  I've been using it for over 20 years.  It's fast, customizable, has a great speed dial , and has an ad blocker should you choose to enable it.  Works with Windows and Linux.

Microsoft supporting something is pretty meaningless.  I can only think of a few instances where an update actually fixed something - more often than not it has deleterious side effects.  Support is an issue in enterprise environments but companies have to pay big bucks on support agreements - $100K a year for a system I worked on.

Arbitrarily changing the user interface with no recourse is a terrible way to treat customers.  Also, it's pretty lame when a third party can easily add the feature back.  I use Classic Shell and Classic Menu for Office so I can have the user interface I am comfortable with.  Ironically, the changes made do not actually fix the shortcomings of prior versions - they just force users to access the mediocre features in a different way.

Backward compatibility is a noble cause.  Like still being able to use conventional engines with command control systems.  Any excuse that it is difficult is a cop out.

Ya know what?  I run trains that are as older or older than I am.  My daily driver truck was built in '69.  My field tractors are 69, 71, and 73 years old.  I use tools that are not only older than I am but older than either of my parents (1920 & 1928).  All of them do the jobs asked without suffering from gimmickry and gimcrackery.  This culture's obsession with novelty, the Latest and Greatest, just for the sake of keeping money moving is one of its greatest weaknesses.

@palallin posted:

...This culture's obsession with novelty, the Latest and Greatest, just for the sake of keeping money moving is one of its greatest weaknesses.

AMEN!!

Palallin - Well said.