Is the 'hand-held'/remote becoming obsolete?

Lionel has already discontinued Legacy in favor of Lionchief so this is no surprise.

It's not obsolete for me.

 

I sure hope Lionel hasn't discontinued Legacy as I have a very expensive VL Big Boy that requires it.

 

Phil,

Say it's not so....please!

For now, it's "not so". However, a lot depends on the following:

• The app is only still in beta and, at present, it's an app that will be free and not have all of the features and functions of the current DCS Remote
• When the "real", full-featured app arrives (my personal best guess is no earlier than April York 2015 and probably later), MTH needs to decide how much to charge for it. Lionel is already charging $49.95 for their iCab iPhone (only) app
• There is at least one capability that I understand will not be in the MTH app. There may be others. (Since this may change, I won't say anything more on this topic)
• There is no data yet to indicate that an app for DCS will be widely accepted, particularly because of the expense of $179.95 per TIU that MTH will be charging for its forthcoming WiFi device.

       
       

Huh?

Paying more for the WiFi than the TIU for the privledge of using a sub-standard remote isn't something that I'm likely to do.

 

Lionel discontinuing Legacy is malarky.

Let's not start rumors!

Legacy is not going away!  The Cab2 is not going away!

DCS remote is not going away any time soon!  The apps are a supplement to the handheld remotes.  The apps have a long way to go to replace anything.

Barry, I think you are over optimistic about when we will see the free or paid full app from Hikel/MTH.

Dan 

I think that some form of non-smart phone remote will always be available but eventually apps will be the norm....

 

Alan

I am looking forward to the app. From my dcc experience, the JMRI app is so much nicer for cab control. Hopefully it catches on and becomes full function. Page 4 of 3 letter acronyms, is a drag on the handheld is a drag for Christmas and small child use.

Price is always a concern, but considering that the wifi unit should be a one time, never dropped, no battery needed device and the app can move from broken phone to broken phone, I think folks will embrace it. I also hope they make the app full function and a one time buy. It will be cheaper for MTH to maintain apps and sell locos upgrade kits and base units.

I am a member of the younger generation in this hobby, but I DON'T need any more crap on my PHONE. My TV has a remote, my DCS has a remote, Legacy, stereo etc etc... I'm not putting all that stuff on my phone for 1 universal remote.

I'm running 4 trains with my phone, I get a text, email, and a phone call at the same time. NOW WHAT?

NO thanks.

I love my Legacy remote.  I am a software developer by trade and am am all about evolving with technology, but at this time, I have absolutely NO desire to operate my trains with my phone or iPad.  I like holding the remote, turning the wheel, blowing the horn with the slider, etc. and feeling the vibrations of the remote.  #990forme.

 

Rick

Let's  take a short walk back in time and move forward to see possible or likely trends in controlling trains, track and accessories.

 

1900s  the train has the battery and is rather badly controlled

1940s  the train has no battery and is controlled by power to the track

1950s  the train has a fwd-stop-bkw device controlled by switch power on-off

1960-1990 no real change in control

2000s  DCS is announced as a means of controlling trains from a handheld

2002    TMCC arrives as a secondary remote control CAB-1 with overlays to increase the functionality of the fixed keys

2004   DCS arrives a better more robust handheld than CAB-1 with a small screen that is up-gradable on line. 

2012    CAB2/Legacy shows up with keypad with changing keys and a larger screen that uses plugins to upgrade. using the screen the keys change function.

2013-2014  Both LNL and MTH announce and/or deliver WiFi that allows train control through an Ipad app that allows infinite arrangement of control keys. 

 

Don't quote me on the years above, my memory may be confused but the trend is toward a control pad that is not fixed with the limited keys attached to the handheld.

 

I see a trend away from a handheld with all of its limitations toward apps that really possess no limitations and allow for train, switch and accessory control using images.

Looks like we are gonna need more phones. 

 

I agree with leavingtracks, the physical Legacy and DCS systems will be around as they are now for some time yet, but eventually we will probably all be using apps. I don't see them developing any thing new in the way of physical systems, as everything shifts to apps, but who knows?

 

And I'm in big trouble, still have only a flip phone and it's seldom used.

I think the following comment from Barry is spot-on:

 

There is no data yet to indicate that an app for DCS will be widely accepted, particularly because of the expense of $179.95 per TIU that MTH will be charging for its forthcoming WiFi device.

While some folks might jump to an app for running their trains because it is the latest gadget, I think that most folks will only make the switch if it really is easier to use.

 

With having to purchase a TIU and maybe an additional tablet to run the trains, there really has to be a benefit out-weighting the additional costs.

 

Jim

 

 

Once again, it's assumed that absolutely EVERYBODY is enamored with iPhones and apps.

 

 

Rusty

I suspect that the HH will last a few more years but why would the manufacturers make hardware when the tablet/smartphone folks will already do it at the cost of creating an App.

Because not everybody has or wants a smartphone controlling their lives.

 

I'm surprised nobody's asking about train control via Google Glass.

 

Rusty

While true, it seems that is the way it will go.  IMO.  The hardware is done.  No more Legacy and DCS remote shortages.  No more screen or thumb wheel issues.  Updates could be made almost immediately.

 

Trust me I am a remote guy with a physical control to be able to touch.  I prefer it but it certainly is a cost and hassle saving from the manufacturers side.

That kid has an almost EVIL grin - like what is hooked up to that transformer isn't what we think it is....

 

I'm not "enamored" with iPhones and apps, but I will concede that if you are going to consolidate functionality, the phone/tablet is the way to go.   My generation and the generations after me ALWAYS have their phone with them no matter where they go.  I was a non-believer until I put my TV. DVD, Cable, and Receiver remotes into my phone - now I never have to look for a remote.  It works as well if not better than the remotes for most of my devices, and in some cases adds features that would be impossible on a conventional remote... and that's really what I think this is/should be about.  The ability for phones/tablets to offer features that would be difficult to implement on a standard, proprietary hand-held remote.  That, plus it's one less piece of hardware for MTH to produce and support.   Shift those development resources into programming for the apps - margin on software is pretty sweet.  The time to market for new features could be accelerated as well, because again, it's all in hardware.  No need to design a new physical device, just rev the code.  We all know that software updates can be far from painless, but we deal with that now anyway.  

 

I still think the right way to do this is to enable the TIU to connect to the home WiFi network and log into it with an app or a browser session.  You could run your layout from a computer, tablet, phone, whatever.   If DCS was TCP/IP based, the possibilities would quite literally be endless....

 

 

I'm not a guy who has to have the latest gadgets, but Google glasses with a heads up display would really be cool!   

 

Jim

I agree and I also prefer the current physical hand held remotes.

 

As for apps and physical control, my grandson got an AnkiDrive (sp) set for Christmas. It runs from i-whatever apps on any i-device. The i-device vibrates during certain operations just like the Legacy remotes using feedback. However, I haven't used many ios apps, so there is nothing I can compare it to app wise.

To make full use of the tablet space we need a "view out the cab" on the tablet.  That requires an IP streaming camera, 720p with at least 60fps and no delay, I have not found one yet.  You would thing with all the quadcopters out there that someone would build/sell one.  Then you could use the signaling on the layout.

Dan

 

By the same token,  most folks have the last phone, which wasn't really toast, but you upgraded the phone anyway. That is the "handheld universal remote" that will give you a much nicer interface, for the train... Maybe?

Whats an iPhone?  Whats an app??

That kid is scary!  Electrocuting the pet hamster/gerbil??

 

Best be careful here, remember the screaming when window 8 hit then usoft issuing 8.1 to restore mostly the classical look and feel with mouse rather than poking the screen? 

I give starter sets to young nieces and nephews. I also appreciate my friends layouts, that are conventional only. I also run a number f shelf loops in N, so I don't think it is one or the other.  I am not happy starter sets are moving away from a shot at conventional control.

But that is a separate issue, from improving the command control, for the command control crowd.

 

AlanRail, the Lionel E-unit, giving Fprward-stop-reverse, came out in very late 30's.

I sure hope that the remote is not going away. I am running 10 engines on Lionel Cab #1, 16 engines on MTH / DCS, & one engine on Lionel Chief Plus. Lionel Legacy is still on my bucket list.

  All three on the work bench. 

I think that just might be enough to put me over the edge and make me trade in my flip phone for an iphone.  

 

I really do hope they make this possible someday.

Lionel advertising at it's finest:

 

 

Seriously, how could anyone look so maniacal with a smartphone?

 

Rusty

He looks like Gomez Addams just before he blew the bridge. Maybe that was Gomez as a child, practicing?

And you don't even need to upgrade to get a decent phone at a great price.  Bought my daughter a Nokia Lumia 635 (off contract) a couple of months ago for $129, brings Window Phone 8.1 and Cortana personal assistant.

 

Using a personal assistant, like Cortana or Seri would add another twist to operating your trains!

 

Although knowing my luck, just before I have a major collision or derailment, I would shout "STOP THE TRAINS" and Cortana/Seri would open up a window to "SHOP the trains" thereby opening a window into Lionel.com or MTH, and the trains on the layout would crash into one another!

 

Jim

 

 

Somehow, when I've got several trains running, I don't want to have to hunt around on the screen (using one hand cause the other is holding the contraption) to find where to touch to switch to another loco.

The touch screen leaves a lot to be desired as far as I'm concerned for operation of the locomotive.  I love the big red knob, and I haven't seen any better replacement suggested, especially on a touch screen!

 

I agree with you GRJ.

 

But you do like gadgets, as do I.

Handheld remotes will be around as long as people want to buy them. If the "train buying public" stops buying handheld remotes in favor of phone apps, that when the remotes will disappear. Probably not for several years IMO......

And yet, after all these years of wireless remotes, transformers and power packs with attached throttle knobs or levers are still being sold.

 

 

Rusty

I love gadgets, but they have to be functional gadgets.  Having the latest thing for the sake of "having the latest thing" if it's not functional doesn't impress me.

 

The device is merely anticipating your need for new trains shortly after the massive collision.  

 

Be very careful though, if it realizes it mis-interpreted your command, it may not let you out of the house to go get them, could be related to Hal.

I think that as long as we have folks that's smart enough to think out of the ole proverbial box, and able to beat the system, non un like our Gunny John who understands electronics as good or better than the "Factory Folk" will engineer us something we can afford to keep our stuff running as we have now.

I think this is one reason Lionel and MTH hired Mike Reagan, and Barry B. They were/are sharper than anybody they have/had on their pay roll....Just one man's opinion............................................Brandy