Is Williams fast becoming the New (old) Lionel?

My favorites are the 'Golden Memories' products from WBB.  Unfortunately, the number of 'Golden Memories' products was reduced in the latest WBB catalog.

Earl

I am still unsure if I want Williams power. I have heard nothing but good things about them though. But who knows what Lionel and Williams are thinking these days.

I think it is or at least fills the niche for me in terms of solid, no frills O gauge that looks as good as it runs. I bought the Geep about one year ago, great puller when I run contemporary stuff.

Its becoming more obvious that Lionel is distancing itself from the CC market while Bachmann Williams is expanding it. At this point Lionels strength may be only with the $1700 Legacy engines so why should they try to sell $300 engines that complete with Bachmann on the conventional stuff.  If you are into CC, Bachmann Williams makes a solid reliable product at a competitive price.  They feature nice graphics, pull strong, the horns work and I have never experienced a problem with any Bachmann Williams product

For conventional running, Williams has some nice stuff.  For us that have become addicted to the whistles-n-bells of Legacy stuff, they still don't have a product.

The Williams name has been on O gauge trains for over 30 years.  Their trend of simplicity and quality have moved their trains to what they are today.  Recent expansion is just icing on the cake.  I hope this trend keeps on going.

TEX

Steve

Coarse me not being a diesel guy I don't see anything in their steam line that floats my boat can't deal with that motor sticking out of the cab.
I did convert the only WBB diesels I have to TMCC which is a set of NS Exec F-3's and a set of ACL E-7's I can't complain they're good pullers decent detail but probably will be the only diesels on my layout.

I was hoping they would go forward with the mikado but the price point and the fact that they can't offer anything in 3 rail with command I think killed that.
David

From what I understand, the new Ten-Wheeler is quite an improvement on WBB steam locomotive design (slower speed, hidden motor). I probably wouldn't be in O today if it weren't for Williams motive power pulling my MPC and modern-era Lionel rolling stock.

I've seen the pic's of the WBB 10 wheeler guys have posted here but the deal killer for me was the tab in slot side rods .Honestly wouldn't have taken that much more money to put a rivet in it.
David

Any of you try to modify that Williams ten-wheeler to make it look like a more modern engine?  I'm wondering just how difficult it would be to remove the headlight from the top of the boiler, leaving a blank space and also add marker lights to the upper side of the boiler.  Haven't studied the cab yet to see if it, too could be made to look 1940's-ish.  Just wondering if anyone has tried it yet. 

I'd have no doubt that TMCC or, perhaps, even DCS could be installed in the tender and the engine made to operate on Command Control.  I can't even run conventional on my layout, anymore.

This could be a subject of a great article for OGR and I'm sure it would sell more engines for Williams.

Paul Fischer

What I like about Williams other than it being a great product is it can be upgraded to PS-2(DCS) or TMCC ERR Co. You can keep it simple or have the bells and whistles except for Legacy of course.

I like my Williams Diesels too.....however........

I had to replace the sound unit.

The horn sound is just simply terrible!!

Soo Line

Getting off the subject for a bit, a while back I read an article about a guy who detailed a Williams Scale Hudson to make it look even better than a Lionel 5344.IIRC he added the boiler piping and a scale front coupler. It might have been an OGR article or one in CTT. Point is that adding some detail really makes a difference. I am surprised that no manufacturer has tried selling packaged detail kits for Williams locos.

As long as the cars say "Luxury Lines" not for me.

If you compare the expensive, scale offerings that Lionel is now offereing versus their conventional product line-up, I think the handwriting is clearly on the wall: (much) less traditional and (much) more scale.

Perhaps Williams/Bachmann will fill the void.

I bought a black Williams Santa Fe Ten Wheeler, cut off the Bell and unscrewed and removed the Headlight. A Cal Scale brass bell will install top front of the smokebox in place of the originaal headlight and a new visored headlight on a shelf for mounting near center of the smokebox door, has been ordered from Precision Scale. Object is to redecorate as an Atlantic & Yadkin Ry Passenger Ten Wheeler[remain black] and display on a diorama in the Town Hall,restored brick, two story, former general store built in 1872. It will join a 2-8-0 and 4-4-0.

I also bought a Southern Green 4-6-0 but I am not thrilled with the grass green shade--wish it was black. Southern painted some of its Ten Wheelers in the Green 'n Gold livery, most famous the #949 in Mobile, but it was Sylvan Green which replaced Virginia Green in 1934. This shade ain't close----but I sure like the little engines.

"Is Williams fast becoming the New (old) Lionel?"

No, I'd say they developed a kinship with the old Lionel a long time ago....that is, relatively simple trains with many cars and engines that were close to or virtually identical to the old Lionel products, except for the use of can motors in engines.

They have some of their own designs, but they take aim at the same market as traditional Lionel did. They've made almost mirror-image Lionel aluminum and plastic passenger and freight cars for a long, long time, and Geeps and many other engines that are nearly identical as well. As another poster mentioned, the Golden Memories series copies exactly Post-war F-3s and FAs, among other things, although Williams was channeling Lionel long before this series was released.

I just looked at the WBB site......$450 MSRP for an A-A set of Golden Memories F-3s????  $380 for an A-A set of little FAs??????

Wow. I know these items are frequently discounted, but even so......

When did their prices start skyrocketing?

I'm a Williams fan.  I can buy a nice running loco for a little over $100 to $225 that never fail to run.  I've had a few Williams locos custom painted and they're my favorite runners.  Just sent a Williams 2-8-4 (I know they never owned one) to a custom painter to be painted as Maine Central with speed lettering.  I really like that scheme, very colorful for a steam locomotive painted black. 

I wish that WBB would offer undecorated locos and rolling stock, then I might be tempted to letter my own.  Can you hear me Mr. Bachmann? 

I bought a Girls Train set for my wife for her Easter/Anniversary present and she ran it all day at the last meet. While my friends and I were discussing how well it ran one of my fellow club members stated that on a museum layout the Williams is that gets run because of their durability. I would tend to agree with that in that while I love to run command, I also like to run the Williams too.

I think the only WBB loco we can call a WBB is the 4-6-0. I really like all the Williams/WBB trains I own....but if the 10 wheeler is a hint of where WBB is going....BRING THEM ON!!! MTH and Lionel are beyond me 99.9% of the time $$$$ wise.

I wish that WBB would offer undecorated locos and rolling stock, then I might be tempted to letter my own.  Can you hear me Mr. Bachmann?

I can't help but think we will get unlettered stock like all other scales by Bachman have.....

Williams locos are pretty much bullet proof and run forever. Great locos for the youngsters.

I love Williams stuff. I wish they would bring back the E60 electrics and think about making more modern motors.

I've heard that comment repeated many times over the years from clubs and other public venues where the trains have to run long and hard.  Williams and WBB is kind of the Timex of 3-rail.

"I just looked at the WBB site......$450 MSRP for an A-A set of Golden Memories F-3s????  $380 for an A-A set of little FAs??????

Wow. I know these items are frequently discounted, but even so......

When did their prices start skyrocketing?"

Prices went up this year. But don't fret as you can buy them all at much lower prices from Marty and a few others. I was disappointed to see some golden memories items were dropped. The Choo-Choo barn runs many Williams because of their durability.

Rob

When did their prices start skyrocketing?"

The MSRP on the Ten Wheeler is $319 but mine was $129 almost $200 off MSRP.  So look around and find a deal!!!

Just to echo some of the previous comments made in response to a post regarding WBB MSRPs, something I've learned over the years with Bachmann is to pay absolutely no mind to the list prices. I work in other scales as well and consistently acquire Bachmann models at prices FAR below list. As an example, I purchased the N scale Acela set new in the box for approximately 50% of list. The N scale SD45s (again new in the box) I've picked up worked out to about a third of the list price so there are attractive deals aplenty for brand new Bachmann items. 

Bob     

I am surprised by this, as my WBB steamer runs fairly hot, 20 minutes is tops and then you could fry an egg on the motor. 

Williams little Alco 027 units are just about perfect!  Hopefully they'll do some

in the roads that were cursed with reproduction in Lionel's infamous stamped

frame clunkers....like the New Haven 209, and AT&SF 208! 

That hot after 20 minutes sure looks like an issue somewhere.....My Ten wheeler ran at Christmas for hours on a small oval....cool at all times.

As far as I am concerned, YES.  I love Williams, not only the economic value, but the reliability and the very nice paint quality. 

I prefer conventional trains though, and rarely use sound systems even on my MTH or Lionel sound equipped locomotives.

To me, the variety, availability, value, and quality is why I have added 10 or more Williams locomotives in the last year. 

I look through the Lionel catalog and see a lot of nice looking stuff, but for a conventional runner I have no use for paying those prices for systems I will not use.  And the Lionel conventional offerings are not at all interesting (current catalog).  And over $250 for a dummy locomotive!  No way!  Not me. Williams gets 90% of my train money these days.  Great looking E7's, F3's, GG1's, are my favorites. 

Kevin

Check to determine if something is binding and be sure to lube [lightly] the moving parts. My Grandkids have run my WbB Ten Wheeler for more than and hour without that kind of heating. Warm but not near hot!

Based on reading further comments after posting, another reason another indirectly mentioned struck me..... that of trading more bells and whistles in exchange for the reliability of Bachman \ Williams, as well as postwar and even prewar..there was nothing more frustrating than to want to relax and have another obscure technical issue pop up out of the blue..a trade I can live with. I flip on the power and just enjoy instead of a second career fussing with issues before I can play. I don't have the patience to deal with the alternative.

Over the past 24 months I too became a fan of the Williams/WBB products.  Over that time, I purchased three new and four gently used products.  They are durable, good looking (especially the scale FA-1), and easy to run smoothly with a simple wiring modification.

I only experienced one problem with one loco which will require a service return to WBB.  A new golden memories CanPac F3's gears do not completely clear the semi-circle frame/truck opening when run around a 0-42 curve or tighter.  You can hear a grinding noise and under the shell see where the brass gear is making contact with the metal fram.

Williams/WBB are a good value and the MSRP has been a fantasy, as it pretty much is with all the other train companies.  IMHO the recent WBB sale from numerous dealers on AA diesels with a free B unit, all for at or around $200 was a great buy.  Do to overall cost and benefis, I do not have immediate plans to upgrade any of the Williams/WBB to either TMCC or PS2.  Although I am tempted to add an ERR board for command control of the LNE FA-1 ABA.  My layout is DCS/TMCC and I run my conventional products on a DCS variable channel.

With some simple and probably inexpensive changes by WBB, they could have an amazing lineup of product.

1. Change dual motor parallel wiring to series or wire in resistors to eliminate jack rabbit starts, improve slow speed running, and improved lighting.
2. Please update the horrible True Blast 2 sound chip.  The horn/whistle is barely tolerable and the bell sounds more like a blacksmith at the anvil.
3. Replace ALL metal stamped handrails with the wire type that are on the SD-45's and a few other models.
4. Cover the can motor.

There are some excellent ideas for upgrades here but I think that the sound of the TrueBlast horn is realistic and fine the way it is. I don't know why some criticize the sound. With one touch of the horn/whistle button on the transformer the horn gives the proper crossing pattern.  

I know its not the norm but I seldom run with sound because I am in a 9x19 attic room and although its carpeted and pretty quiet, the sound gets annoying for me after a spell. I used to run sound all the time on the big layout down the hall[dismantled]especially when I could squelch on the Domestic CEO's Soap Operas and Oprah.

I quit running smoke 10 years ago. Someday most of you will become and old phart like me and just set in the armchair and view static[dusty] trains.

Hello guys and gals......

I surely would like have a WBB GP-9 Geep in early Santa Fe pin striped blue and yellow colors but i am bad in painting. 

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

I used to run sound all the time on the big layout down the hall[dismantled]especially when I could squelch on the Domestic CEO's Soap Operas and Oprah.

Don't want to mess with the CEO. Mine's also the CFO (although sometimes train acquisitions go into bypass emergency override mode.)