Key Model Imports PA Santa Fe ATSF details

Richard, is Scott planning on a P48 version in plastic?

Rob - I actually have PA&PB Overland PRR bodies.  Not at all sure what I am going to do with them.  I would think a Proto-48 mechanism could be had from Jay or MMW.  The number boards and antennae render them not useful for other roads.

Eric as the resident authority on the Key diesels in your opinion do the later run "E" units reach the same level of super detailing as the "PAs", the previous postings seem to place the PAs in the limits of a still practical to run [radius 84"+] for trucks and under body detailing, just curious.

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Richard, is Scott planning on a P48 version in plastic?

Erik,

No. Scott discussed doing proto 48 models several years ago with one of the well known proto 48 builders and decided not to do it.

Erik, since you are the resident PA expert, would you be able to share what are the identifying differences between the KEY PA runs?  I know you said the 1989 run is Samhongsa versus the 2010 run which is FM ?

Are the builders marked on the boxes or on the models themselves?

Is the FM train model connected to the FM of the 1990's that built brass? 

I'd want to acquire a set of the last run but I'm still pondering what road to get!   

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Richard, is Scott planning on a P48 version in plastic?

Scott does not do P48.  However, I am working with someone to try and come up with 40" P48 wheelsets for 3rd rail diesels.

rdunniii posted:

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Richard, is Scott planning on a P48 version in plastic?

Scott does not do P48.  However, I am working with someone to try and come up with 40" P48 wheelsets for 3rd rail diesels.

Boy talk about a senior moment.  I've already had P48 axles made for Protocraft 40" wheels for 3rd rail diesels I'm working with someone to have 44" P48 wheels made for Overland SD70s.

Thanks Richard and Rheil. I wasn't sure. I would certainly start buying P48 equipment if offered. I don't have the courage to take on converting anything I have now. 

Rule292,

In my humble opinion the 2010 PA is one of the finest detailed American diesels ever produced. The full engine room and lighting on these models is incredible. For an out of the of the box affair; I am still amazed they pulled it off. This is the sort of thing you see on Euromodell or other high end Japanese or European brass. The market in Europe is vastly different than ours. They simply don't have the blurry distinction between 3 Rail oversizing or gigantism of details and track. Pleasing both of these markets and adding in P48 makes our market very difficult to produce models like this.

Here are some nice links to some Japanese models being produced to the level I like:

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/topicks/topicks88.html

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/topicks/topicks81.html

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/topicks/topicks65.htm

I send my deepest respect to any importer like Key Model, Midwestern Model, Division Point, PSC, Protocraft, and any other that is willing to even ponder producing equipment like this for us these days. This is a tough nut to crack. So many buyers are happy with "good enough.." and not demanding it all like the Europeans or the Japanese.

The early E units.. ? The bodies certainly are as nice however the engine room detail is simply an etching; this concept was started back in the 90's at Challenger Imports in HO (Samhongsa). The latest FT's did have the detailing such as steam generators and such seen from the wide doorways.  Also piping along the frame above the trucks is present on both the E and FT's so Key did follow the same fastidiousnous that was applied to the PA where possible in the design. I do agree that the PA was a better detailed model. Certainly the trucks are amazing while the F's and E's are mostly side frame detail and none of the internal workings seen on the PA trucks. 

I don't believe this detracts from the E or F's at all. It's different and not sure how to explain it without coming off erroneously. 

Sadly I believe this was the last call on Models of this caliber in o scale. The market is slowly diminishing and at this point even a plastic model designed for both 3 Rail and scale is a blessing. 

Some more interesting links to a builder in Korea doing what I really think is cool  

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/topicks/topicks90.html

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/new/new59C.htm

where's the dirt???

Right! 

Where is the lunch box and coffee!? 

Cheap lack of detail here..

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Right! 

Where is the lunch box and coffee!? 

Cheap lack of detail here..

 

There is simply nothing more beautiful than state of the art models. 

And yes, for some of us fidelity is the number one concern.. as in the Key PAs.

Rule292,

For me it's all about the passion and the pursuit for perfection.  Oh yeah and authenticity. Plastic or brass, makes no difference to me what it's made of as long as it's right. 

http://www.musashino-m.co.jp/new/new79b.html

below is another one of the best American prototypes produced by our friends at ATM..

http://coloradooscale.org/revi...hotos-omis-sd70aces/

My very good friend Jack Vansworth took this of Mr Jae-Gil (his American name) of ATM of him with one of my SD70's and here he is working on Japanese models. He's an amazing guy! 

Here is Mr Jae-Gil working on this amazing 1:80 EF65  

Incredible detailing on the HO model, if I am reading correctly based on the date and conversion value at that time its a 3K + model, obviously the market outside the US is more receptive to these products, although the HO collectors market here still supports this market [ perhaps not quite to the detail model pictured] Coach Yard, DP etc JMO

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Thanks Richard and Rheil. I wasn't sure. I would certainly start buying P48 equipment if offered. I don't have the courage to take on converting anything I have now.

The change in gauge is not the significant visual change, for locomotives or rolling stock, for someone that already has OW5 track, it's the change in the treadwidth that is huge.  Changing the treadwidth from .145 to .115 allows you to pull the sideframes in more than 1/8" (in some cases more than 3/8" for repurposed O Gauge trucks) and is very noticeable; at least to me.  It allows all those things that interfere with truck rotation, stirrups, pilots, etc, to get out of the way.

Some of Gary Schrader's Youtube videos regarding the Key cab forwards discuss this.  The Midwestern SD45s will be available in both gauges with .115 wheels and Erik says the difference is not noticeable, the truck sideframes are spaced the same distance apart on both.  The same is true for Protocraft trucks.

Of course if you don't already have OW5 track...  The track is noticeably different to me too for less than 1/10" difference.

Richard I am well aware of the differences in P48 to OW5... 

We are importing more RS's in P48 than 5' gauge an interesting note  

I have owned several P48 masterpiece custom built models over the years. I prefer the look of P48 over 5' gauge for the biggest reason the scale trackwork and its associated detailing. 

I see it all the time like you said even though it's a small distance of 1/10 or 1/16 of an inch. Funny how we are discussing this on the 3 Rail forum.

Thank you for the response 

Erik

Erik,  That's really great to hear about the RS's.  Like you said 4'8.5" is the light side 5' is the dark side and the more people see the "light", pun intended, the better.  The more "1/48th Scale" can get away from TCA and more towards NMRA the more I like it.

Richard, I owned this beautiful piece built by Andrew Revis for several years sadly I decided to sell. I currently have over 75 sets of P48 Grabowski wheelsets.. yes I contemplated the P48 change and still build them both in On3 and Standard Gauge  

Thought it might be helpful in light of some current posts. Yeah I need to learn how to take pictures like Santiago too.