KW transformer problem

Ken from your recent post to the Ross 11.5 degree Double Crossover topic, I inferred that the KW may not be phase matched aka"phased" with other transformers on the layout.  I'm I reading this correctly?

@Ken Wing posted:

Mission accomplished.  The solution was to power the crossing relay and switch machine from track power instead of accessory power. This way, regardless of which cab/transformer is running the train, the train, relay, and switch machine grounds are always the same.

KW wiring matches the Lionel Service manual, so don't understand what's going on there. I'll start another topic to explore that.

Thanks for all the help.

If so, part of the problem may be that there is no Common connection (ground) among all the transformers on the layout.  When using more than one transformer, this is highly recommended.

Here's a link to MartyE's tips and tricks on how to phase postwar transformers: http://www.martye.com/TipsandTricks/TipsandTrick2.htm

If you're also using a modern transformer with a polarized wall plug, here a link to a recent topic about those:

https://ogrforum.com/...o-lionel-180w-bricks

The schematic in the service manual shows the rectifier reversed from its intended orientation... for the KW and several others as well. Whoever "refurbished" the KW was following the diagrams and not the convention... which didn't make a difference at all until the 1972 introduction of the electronic whistle.

Rob, I think you're probably right that a replacement rectifier may have been installed backwards.  If it was replaced with a diode instead of the original disc, in order for it to follow convention, should the diode be anode or cathode to case in the KW?

Some additional data:

My layout has a common ground throughout.

I tried reversing the plug on the KW to address the phase question. It had no impact on whistle or relay latching.

I compared the wiring to the physical wiring diagram on page 3 of the service manual, not the schematic on page 2.

I attach a photo that appears to me to show original disc rectifier.

@SteveH posted:

should the diode be anode or cathode to case in the KW?

Anode to case will provide the intended operation.

@Ken Wing posted:

I compared the wiring to the physical wiring diagram on page 3 of the service manual, not the schematic on page 2.

Going from memory, the pictorial diagram is correct.

That is a common replacement rectifier sold by many sources, including the train tender.  The instructions, for some reason, state to install the shiny side out, likely to protect the other surface.  But doing so reverses the DC offset.  Not a problem with postwar whistles, but creates a problem with modern whistles.  

Measure the A and U output with a DC voltmeter with the throttle on and when the whistle lever is activated.  +DC will activate the horn, -DC will activate a bell function.  Pickup voltage is about 2.5VDC.

@Jon G posted:

That is a common replacement rectifier sold by many sources, including the train tender.  The instructions, for some reason, state to install the shiny side out, likely to protect the other surface.  But doing so reverses the DC offset.  Not a problem with postwar whistles, but creates a problem with modern whistles.  

Measure the A and U output with a DC voltmeter with the throttle on and when the whistle lever is activated.  +DC will activate the horn, -DC will activate a bell function.  Pickup voltage is about 2.5VDC.

The Train Tender lists a 1041-13W polarity reversal washer to solve this problem. Using it, you install the rectifier disc with the shiny side in, and put this disc on the outer, speckled side. Works fine electrically, but the pin is marginally too short to hold the speed nut with the extra washer installed, you may need to improvise with a nut and bolt.

Thanks for the diagnosis. I've built add-on whistle/bell controllers for my Type V transformers.  I think I'll just do the same for this one so I can have both whistle and bell.

I built this substitute Sound Activation / Block Protection controller from Susan Deats' excellent website.  It works really well with my KW in conjunction with the Whistle Lever for bell activation.

https://slsprr.net/features/SoundBlkProtect.htm

John