Lack of MTH and Lionel Spined 48' Husky Stack Freight Cars

Have deinotely seen and noticed the lack of both. MTH ‘s last set was pre 2010, IRC, and possibly not since the 2002 catalog!

The k-line 5 car sets pop up on eBay more often- less than 200 which is pretty good. The two car sets, which can be combined to make a 5 car set, show up even more often. Contrary to what I believe is popular belief, the two car sets are scale and support scale sized K-Line containers and modified MTH and Weaver containers. They support scale sizes of either: one 40’ container, one 48’ container, 2 20’ container, 2 ISO container’s on Trailer with 40’ container. Can provide pics if you’d like. Hope that helps.

@StevefromPA posted:

Have deinotely seen and noticed the lack of both. MTH ‘s last set was pre 2010, IRC, and possibly not since the 2002 catalog!

The k-line 5 car sets pop up on eBay more often- less than 200 which is pretty good. The two car sets, which can be combined to make a 5 car set, show up even more often. Contrary to what I believe is popular belief, the two car sets are scale and support scale sized K-Line containers and modified MTH and Weaver containers. They support scale sizes of either: one 40’ container, one 48’ container, 2 20’ container, 2 ISO container’s on Trailer with 40’ container. Can provide pics if you’d like. Hope that helps.

Steve- I'll take those pics and I did find the early reference to the "kit-bashed" 48's (https://ogrforum.com/...ermodal-husky-stacks). Anthony

I'd like Lionel to make some semi-scale 3 and 5 unit well car sets with containers and also spine cars. Also, they need to make an updated Intermodal Crane with Command-Control. I would buy a few sets of each so I could have an intermodal operation on a future layout. I would still buy the cars for my current layout.

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

I'd like Lionel to make some semi-scale 3 and 5 unit well car sets with containers and also spine cars. Also, they need to make an updated Intermodal Crane with Command-Control. I would buy a few sets of each so I could have an intermodal operation on a future layout. I would still buy the cars for my current layout.

I agree.  You can get the modern Intermodal cranes in HO but not in O.  Interestingly enough, I had starting 3D modeling the CSX Intermodal Crane in Baltimore from photographs two years ago...that's when I got back into model trains.  I have the wheel sets modeled but it was clear that it was going to be a pain to 3D print those components, so I put it aside.  It might have been more exciting if I starting with the hoist first instead of the from the ground-up approach.

I just tried to purchase an Atlas Gunderson maxi-IV well car set off of the evil that is the bay but it someone else bought it while I was checking out.  Talk about getting some strange error messages.

Anthony

@Dylan the Train Man - FYI: I'd prefer scale well cars.  And, I may or may not have successfully got that Atlas Gunderson maxi-IV well car set...I'm sure I'll know in the morning when the evil decides whose transaction went through first.

Anthony

I’ve done several sets of these, using both K-Line 40’ Thrall and 40’ Gunderson cars. Both conversions require some major cutting, etc but totally worth it. I’ve also done several using MTH 48’ wells. The K-Line Gunderson wells require a metal shop to cut 3/4” off each end. The Thrall cars require the removal of the entire end pieces, and to add a custom fabricated end platform,  then secure to the well itself  .

@Jeff78rr - Sounds like a lot of work.  I'm mainly trying to understand why the major companies didn't offer the 48' well cars in spine format.  Perhaps they felt it would be to cost prohibitive to the end user for purchase or perhaps it was to complex to make???  Seems like a lost opportunity.

I agree- the actual terminology here is "articulated" intermodal well cars. Articulated means the cars share a common truck mount, and "spine" cars refers to the 3- or 5-car sets with a center spine going from truck to truck. They are also articulated, but referring to them as spine cars is correct.

@Jeff78rr posted:

I’ve done several sets of these, using both K-Line 40’ Thrall and 40’ Gunderson cars. Both conversions require some major cutting, etc but totally worth it. I’ve also done several using MTH 48’ wells. The K-Line Gunderson wells require a metal shop to cut 3/4” off each end. The Thrall cars require the removal of the entire end pieces, and to add a custom fabricated end platform,  then secure to the well itself  .

There they are. I knew Jeff did them. I wanted him to reply. Great job.

@Jeff78rr posted:

I agree- the actual terminology here is "articulated" intermodal well cars. Articulated means the cars share a common truck mount, and "spine" cars refers to the 3- or 5-car sets with a center spine going from truck to truck. They are also articulated, but referring to them as spine cars is correct.

Jeff - I was thinking there was probably some other terminology but, in the interest of time, I decided to go with "spine".  Also, if I had infinite time to spare, I was entertaining the notion of making a mold based on the Atlas Gunderson maxi-IV car sets.  I'm not comfortable hacking up nice new husky stack cars.  They would be all plastic except for the trucks verses die-cast but that's fine for my layout.  And, while I was writing this, I received my MTH TTX 5 car twin stack container set (20-92246).

I'm also curious as to why Atlas doesn't produce 48' containers.

Were these 48’ containers ever popular even for commercial intermodal transport? I love intermodal trains and I have never seen a 48’ container in real life.

I just assumed that they were an oddball size chosen by MTH and Lionel for their intermodal freight cars.

Searching online, it appears like the 53’ (US & Canada) containers are favored over these quirky 48’ containers for domestic transport. Apparently the 53’ containers cost as much to transport by truck or train while providing over 9% larger capacity per container over the 48’ container.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

@naveenrajan (Naveen) - I've only recently noticed 53' trailers on tractors on the Interstate lately in my area.  I've even thought about taking my phone to one of the rest stops and taking photos as they pass by since they match nothing that Atlas offers.  As for 48's, I have been very up close and personal with those containers on the trailer mounts.  Typically the ones I'm accustomed to are J.B. Hunt and APL.

Anthony

The 48’ containers and trailers were very popular and mainstream in the transportation industry in the mid- to late 80’s and through the 90’s. The 53’ units came on the scene in the late 90’s and early 2000’s and are pretty much the container size currently being used. The 48’ containers are pretty much phased out for domestic use, and the 48’ well cars were mostly cut down to the 40’ well size.

@Jeff78rr posted:

The 48’ containers and trailers were very popular and mainstream in the transportation industry in the mid- to late 80’s and through the 90’s. The 53’ units came on the scene in the late 90’s and early 2000’s and are pretty much the container size currently being used. The 48’ containers are pretty much phased out for domestic use, and the 48’ well cars were mostly cut down to the 40’ well size.

I just bought 6 more Atlas 40' containers today.  I was trying to find a photo on one of the TTX affiliate websites that featured a string of empty 40' well cars to share, but alas, I cannot find it today. A

Like the Class 1 roads, I'm switching over to Gunderson Maxi -IVs. I'm phasing out my Lionel Husky stacks too- selling some even today. I did the same thing Jeff did with the K-Line DTTX well cars- taking 2 of them and making them a 5 well car too. I do notice another well car that is missing is a 53' stand alone well car- I played with the idea of modifying a Lionel Husky stack, but other than welding and grinding a section to make the car hold a 53' Atlas container, I don't know it could be done.

A 40' 5-unit articulated well car would be a welcome addition to the world  of O gauge intermodal rolling stock.

Geno

@72blackbird posted:

Like the Class 1 roads, I'm switching over to Gunderson Maxi -IVs. I'm phasing out my Lionel Husky stacks too- selling some even today. I did the same thing Jeff did with the K-Line DTTX well cars- taking 2 of them and making them a 5 well car too. I do notice another well car that is missing is a 53' stand alone well car- I played with the idea of modifying a Lionel Husky stack, but other than welding and grinding a section to make the car hold a 53' Atlas container, I don't know it could be done.

A 40' 5-unit articulated well car would be a welcome addition to the world  of O gauge intermodal rolling stock.

Geno

Geno - I saw your Lionel Husky Stacks for sell.  Friday night I had yanked out one of my Lionel 48' used, back-up CSX Husky Stacks.  I looked at the possibility of using those as the basis for a 5 well car set.  However, if I stay true to scale, none of the Lionel Husky Stacks will be suitable for that purpose.  I'm not sure if you are aware, but the LHS's are not true to scale length wise.  The disappointment of this fact has really sunk in at this point and it hurts even more as I own about 22 LHS's.  But you are correct, the Lionel units can be used as a basis for 40' 5-unit articulated well cars.  However, the Thrall units are most often rebuilt for this purpose (see various pics of the TTX units on the web and the HO sets).  (Also, you will most certainty need some serious power tools to dissect and grind the LHS's and plenty of oil to act as a coolant.)

So, all in all, I've decided on another route in my own quest for a 48' O Scale Gunderson III 5 well car set.

Anthony

@72blackbird posted:

Like the Class 1 roads, I'm switching over to Gunderson Maxi -IVs. I'm phasing out my Lionel Husky stacks too- selling some even today. I did the same thing Jeff did with the K-Line DTTX well cars- taking 2 of them and making them a 5 well car too. I do notice another well car that is missing is a 53' stand alone well car- I played with the idea of modifying a Lionel Husky stack, but other than welding and grinding a section to make the car hold a 53' Atlas container, I don't know it could be done.

A 40' 5-unit articulated well car would be a welcome addition to the world  of O gauge intermodal rolling stock.

Geno

Here is a video of Gunderson TTX 40' well cars (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0QlTMkpOOA).  I assume they are rebuilt 48's.  Anthony

@A. Wells posted:

Geno - I saw your Lionel Husky Stacks for sell.  Friday night I had yanked out one of my Lionel 48' used, back-up CSX Husky Stacks.  I looked at the possibility of using those as the basis for a 5 well car set.  However, if I stay true to scale, none of the Lionel Husky Stacks will be suitable for that purpose.  I'm not sure if you are aware, but the LHS's are not true to scale length wise.  The disappointment of this fact has really sunk in at this point and it hurts even more as I own about 22 LHS's.  But you are correct, the Lionel units can be used as a basis for 40' 5-unit articulated well cars.  However, the Thrall units are most often rebuilt for this purpose (see various pics of the TTX units on the web and the HO sets).  (Also, you will most certainty need some serious power tools to dissect and grind the LHS's and plenty of oil to act as a coolant.)

So, all in all, I've decided on another route in my own quest for a 48' O Scale Gunderson III 5 well car set.

Anthony

Hi Anthony,

I was aware that the LHSs were not true scale- I chose them over the MTH HSs because of their diecast construction and detail. But things do change- the intermodal industry has abandoned 48' containers in favor of 53s, and it has been over a decade since 48s have been in widespread use to move goods and freight. I'm sure Gunderson has used many 48' well cars and reworked then into 5-unit 40' articulated well cars too, because the 48' husky stacks were once an industry standard and plentiful. It's cheaper and more cost effective to modify and rebuild new 5-unit articulated 40' well cars from retired 48' well cars, than to cut them up, melt the metal, pour and form it into new sheets, and then build new 40' well cars from scratch. It's also easier from a fabrication standpoint to stretch a 48' well car into a 53' well car too- I see plenty of 53' stand alone Husky stacks in use today.

I still have 3 LHS TTX 48' well cars- I may attempt to cut them up, and turn them into an articulated 40' well car. I build musclecars as a hobby, so cutting, welding and shaping metal is something I have done many times. But alot of our fellow O gauge hobbyists still like the 48' husky stack, extinct or not- I've had little issue selling off the 48' LHSs, and if you wanted, you could do the same as well. Atlas will also do another run of 53' Maxi- IV well cars also, and hopefully Lionel or MTH would take the chance and produce a Thrall or Gunderson 5- unit articulated 40' well car- they would sell well.

Geno

I agree, the 5-car articulated 40’ well car sets would be incredible and sell many, many sets. Intermodal is my favorite platform to model, so I’d be in for several sets.

@Jeff78rr posted:

I agree, the 5-car articulated 40’ well car sets would be incredible and sell many, many sets. Intermodal is my favorite platform to model, so I’d be in for several sets.

Oh good.  Do you have diagrams/photos of your layout?  I've run into a few issues with my layout schematic that can only be resolved with custom track pieces.  I'm interested to see what others have done with an IM yard.

Anthony

@72blackbird posted:

Hi Anthony,

I was aware that the LHSs were not true scale- I chose them over the MTH HSs because of their diecast construction and detail. But things do change- the intermodal industry has abandoned 48' containers in favor of 53s, and it has been over a decade since 48s have been in widespread use to move goods and freight. I'm sure Gunderson has used many 48' well cars and reworked then into 5-unit 40' articulated well cars too, because the 48' husky stacks were once an industry standard and plentiful. It's cheaper and more cost effective to modify and rebuild new 5-unit articulated 40' well cars from retired 48' well cars, than to cut them up, melt the metal, pour and form it into new sheets, and then build new 40' well cars from scratch. It's also easier from a fabrication standpoint to stretch a 48' well car into a 53' well car too- I see plenty of 53' stand alone Husky stacks in use today.

I still have 3 LHS TTX 48' well cars- I may attempt to cut them up, and turn them into an articulated 40' well car. I build musclecars as a hobby, so cutting, welding and shaping metal is something I have done many times. But alot of our fellow O gauge hobbyists still like the 48' husky stack, extinct or not- I've had little issue selling off the 48' LHSs, and if you wanted, you could do the same as well. Atlas will also do another run of 53' Maxi- IV well cars also, and hopefully Lionel or MTH would take the chance and produce a Thrall or Gunderson 5- unit articulated 40' well car- they would sell well.

Geno

Geno,

Yep, I'm one of those crazies who like the look of the 48's.  I'm starting to wonder if Atlas is going to do another run of the 53's.  My patience has all but gone.  Interestingly enough, I have not seen a stand alone 53' well car.  I'll have to take a look on the web and see what I can find.  That sounds like a good idea, cutting up the LHS for 40' well cars.  I have 5 TTX's (new logo) and all 11 of the CSX's (plus 4 used) and 4 of the BNSF's.

As far as the major manufacturers releasing a 5-unit articulated 40' well car set, I wouldn't hold my breathe.  At this point, they are more apt to use existing molds instead of trying to make new ones.  At some point though, modelers will get tired of the same old, same old and will demand new items.  Until that demand reaches fever pitch, I doubt we'll see anything new.

Anthony

Sometimes you have to take things into your own hands and create what you like. Here’s a custom 53’ stand alone car that I made utilizing a MTH 48’ stack car, and splicing in a 5’ section (1 1/4”) to create the 53’ length. I then custom painted the car in the new TTX logo. Also did several XPO 53’ containers.

@Jeff78rr posted:

Sometimes you have to take things into your own hands and create what you like. Here’s a custom 53’ stand alone car that I made utilizing a MTH 48’ stack car, and splicing in a 5’ section (1 1/4”) to create the 53’ length. I then custom painted the car in the new TTX logo. Also did several XPO 53’ containers.

Wow, no splice line!  I might as well to just stop now.

Anthony, give these projects a try. Taking everything one step at a time. Let me know, I’d be glad to help with advice. Thanks

@Jeff78rr posted:

Sometimes you have to take things into your own hands and create what you like. Here’s a custom 53’ stand alone car that I made utilizing a MTH 48’ stack car, and splicing in a 5’ section (1 1/4”) to create the 53’ length. I then custom painted the car in the new TTX logo. Also did several XPO 53’ containers.

Jeff,

Great work as usual- I would be interested to know how you did the XPO Logistics 53' containers. Are there Decal kits from Microscale available, or did you print those up on your own? I am just catching up on getting more Atlas Maxi IVs, and populating them.

I have a couple of 5-unit Thrall well cars from K-Line, but IMO they look nothing like the real thing. I love some detailed pics on how you made yours look more realistc, since it's clear 40' cans are a major part of intermodal traffic these days.

Thanks,

Geno.

I just purchased a Walters HO scale 40' TTX Thrall 5 car set from that source we dare not speak its name.  The details look good from what I can see from the photos.  I'm planing to hit it with my expansion ray gun.

I took another look at the Lionel HS's and the modified Gunderson III's in the YT video.  It looks like they didn't just cut down from one end but instead cut down the size from both ends.  Seems like extra work.  Can you guys weigh in on this?

Anthony

P.S. Geno - Shift + Enter will kill that extra space between "Thanks" and "Geno."...just in case you're interested.

What I used are the K-Line Thrall 40' cars. Remove the ends, and then build out of Evergreen plastic, a platform. I made these 3/4' in length. I added brake details from the K-Line ends, to one end of each car. As for the end car ends, again using Evergreen plastic, I made these longer. Make some bottom braces for rigidity and use these braces to mount Atlas o trucks to them. The ends K-Line supplies are so incorrect, causing them to be way too long and ride very high. Note the lowered ride height of my sets.

@Jeff78rr , @72blackbird - Well, I started work on a beat-up BN Husky Stack last night.  I knew it was going way to smoothly in process.  Then, that's when I discovered the very sad reality that the height of the well car is not remotely true to scale.  It IS the correct height from the ground.  My guess is they did this in case you wanted to convert it to 2 rail.  This prevents me from lowering the car and, at the same time, adding the appropriate coupler area.  (I think I've become emotionally disturbed from this fact!)

Jeff - I have a K-Line Thrall 40' car on the way.  I wanted to buy one of the two car sets but the price gauging on them is beyond belief.  I did get my Walthers rebuilt Thrall 40' car set.  The detail on them is absolutely incredible!  Perhaps it's time for me to start making my own O SCALE tooling.

The one good thing that came out of this endeavor is I built out the function necessary to generate the cat walks for the Gunderson well cars in my CAD software.

Anthony

@A. Wells posted:

@Jeff78rr , @72blackbird - Well, I started work on a beat-up BN Husky Stack last night.  I knew it was going way to smoothly in process.  Then, that's when I discovered the very sad reality that the height of the well car is not remotely true to scale.  It IS the correct height from the ground.  My guess is they did this in case you wanted to convert it to 2 rail.  This prevents me from lowering the car and, at the same time, adding the appropriate coupler area.  (I think I've become emotionally disturbed from this fact!)

Jeff - I have a K-Line Thrall 40' car on the way.  I wanted to buy one of the two car sets but the price gauging on them is beyond belief.  I did get my Walthers rebuilt Thrall 40' car set.  The detail on them is absolutely incredible!  Perhaps it's time for me to start making my own O SCALE tooling.

The one good thing that came out of this endeavor is I built out the function necessary to generate the cat walks for the Gunderson well cars in my CAD software.

Anthony

Hi Anthony,

I converted 4 of my Lionel Husky stacks to 2 rail a few years ago- they ran fine, but after realizing they were obsolete and essentially no longer existed, I decided to sell my collection of LHSs off. I had to shim the area where I mounted the box for the coupler, and only used one screw to mount the box. I converted the last two back to 3-rail last night, as the new owners want cars that can run on Fastrack.

Geno