Lee Marsh Models GS4

What's the URL? 

I will buy one. ncng

This guy has a strong track record?  Are his previous efforts up to the standards you expect of this?

His website has no details, and not a hint of price range.

I emailed Lee yesterday expressing interest in this project and his timeline for this is pretty fast. Hes delivered lots of  models to his customers in Europe and hsi standards are very high and it looks like he want to get into the American market. I am very interested in this project and look forward to seeing the progress and hopefully getting one.

I have one of his royal hudsons, reserved.  should be outstanding.

Wonder which version/versions he is going to make? Not much information about such, on that link.

Jack, no there isnt. It looks like this project is in the announcement phase and much like other importers, there isn't much information or price. Seems more like a declaration of intent to build this model. I saw his models at the March Meet and they are beautiful. He uses the higher end building practices like punched rivets so I expect this GS4 to be superb if it garners enough interest to get built.

I wonder what reservation/payment method he'll use.  Deposit like he's done on other models?  I have no problem with a deposit to guarantee my commitment, just won't fund another project and then let someone else use my money for years. 

BH

He's not new, hes been importing models in the EU for some time so his system will be the same I'm sure

Another GS-4?  It's like another NYC Hudson.  How about an SP GS-1 or an ATSF prairie?

swrr posted:

Another GS-4?  It's like another NYC Hudson.  How about an SP GS-1 or an ATSF prairie?

How about a GS-5? There were only two of those; #4458 & #4459.

Hot Water posted:

swrr posted:

Another GS-4?  It's like another NYC Hudson.  How about an SP GS-1 or an ATSF prairie?

How about a GS-5? There were only two of those; #4458 & #4459.

You gotta go where the money is, I guess. The GS4 is one of the best-known locomotives in the US, certainly on the Western side, anyway (in no small part due to 4449 running today).

As for the GS-5s, I understand that the only external difference as they were rolling bearing versions of the GS-4, would be the road numbers and the markings on the driver centers denoting them as roller bearing locos (circles in that case, instead of the stars seen on 4449, denoting friction bearings).

p51 posted:

Hot Water posted:

swrr posted:

Another GS-4?  It's like another NYC Hudson.  How about an SP GS-1 or an ATSF prairie?

How about a GS-5? There were only two of those; #4458 & #4459.

You gotta go where the money is, I guess. The GS4 is one of the best-known locomotives in the US, certainly on the Western side, anyway (in no small part due to 4449 running today).

As for the GS-5s, I understand that the only external difference as they were rolling bearing versions of the GS-4, would be the road numbers and the markings on the driver centers denoting them as roller bearing locos (circles in that case, instead of the stars seen on 4449, denoting friction bearings).

That plus all the roller bearings on the trailing truck and tender truck journals. That would be even more "visible" than those little "rounded off star nubbins" on the driver axle ends. 

Hot Water posted:

That plus all the roller bearings on the trailing truck and tender truck journals. That would be even more "visible" than those little "rounded off star nubbins" on the driver axle ends. 

Oh yeah, forgot about the covers on the tender trucks (Timkin ones, if memory serves, but I could be wrong about that. I am nowhere near my reference books right now).

Wouldn't be a huge deal to make a GS-5 if you've gone to all the trouble to make a GS-4, that's for sure. I'd be willing to bet many modelers could find the parts to make a GS-5 out of a 4 if you really wanted/had to.

Based on the CPR Royal Hudson O scale loco for sale on his website 4300 +/- USD, 500 dep and intermediate payments +shipping from the UK, you would be looking at a number for a GS 4 well above that. JMO

p51 posted:

Hot Water posted:

That plus all the roller bearings on the trailing truck and tender truck journals. That would be even more "visible" than those little "rounded off star nubbins" on the driver axle ends. 

Oh yeah, forgot about the covers on the tender trucks (Timkin ones, if memory serves, but I could be wrong about that. I am nowhere near my reference books right now).

Wouldn't be a huge deal to make a GS-5 if you've gone to all the trouble to make a GS-4, that's for sure. I'd be willing to bet many modelers could find the parts to make a GS-5 out of a 4 if you really wanted/had to.

You were right about the Timken roller bearings being used. They were on the 4458. The 4459 used SKF roller bearings.  

I can’t speak to the details of this particular model, but I have found Lee very friendly and approachable when I have spoken with him at the March Meets in Chicago. Honestly, I did not think he would venture into the US prototype market since his European models are suburb, but good luck to him.

Charlie

Is he related to Overland/ Brian?  If so, didn't they figure out that medium high end O Scale was not profitable for them?

How would he be related to Overland? He’s from Scotland. Bob2 aren’t you a big Key fan?

I emailed expressing my interest and looking form more info and got a reply back from Lee last night and he gave me some background. Before he got into RTR brass he used to hand build commissioned models for customers. He did this for 22 years before importing RTR form Korea so not only is he an importer but a very highly skilled modeller as well. He sent me some photos of his work and it is beautiful. See the 2 expamples below

His time line for these is planned to have a pilot model for O scale west and Indy 2018 and full production for 2019 so that's pretty fast. In my next correspondence maybe I will suggest he do the GS5 as well. I want to see more importers and more manufacturers building and importing not less so lets drum up some interest and get support the new guys with orders

It's good to have another high-end importer and I believe Lee is younger than some of the other high-end importers we have today, except for Erik. And I like his reservation system much better. 

Good news all around.

BH

Agreed, if he is going to do a model in 2 years that beats the pants off anybody else

I have it on good authority that the 45's from MMW will be delivered 2dn quarter of 2018 and the 40-2 pilot models are underway and aiming for a delivery of production models 4th quarter 2019. It looks like Erik is also trying to get away from the 7 year plan

If that's the case at the O scale Chicago March  meet we should see some painted samples, sounds like MMW has enough reservations to make the SD 40-2 a go probably helped by some serious buyers who saw the Sunset version not happening, just saying!

He should have photos of painted models up on his website soon. I think the guys that buy MMW and Lee Marsh are in a different class than Scott Mann but would buy the same. I have three of Scott's on order and am on the fence about the MMW -2's cuz they're so much money. They will be impeccable but I dont cr*p hundred dollar bills.

You have burst my bubble.  I have expensive hobbies - I flew four different antique airplanes today, and that can add up, with fuel at six bucks a gallon.

I admire what Key has done, but cannot justify several grand for a model locomotive.  It is not that I cannot afford it - it is just that I would rather build my own.  I do not fully appreciate perfection when I have no personal involvement in its creation.

But I figured I was posting with a group of modelers for whom price was simply not part of the equation.  Now I know I am shooting the breeze with folks of roughly my economic status.  That may be more fun!

Matt Makens posted:

I have it on good authority that the 45's from MMW will be delivered 2dn quarter of 2018 and the 40-2 pilot models are underway and aiming for a delivery of production models 4th quarter 2019. It looks like Erik is also trying to get away from the 7 year plan

7 year plan. Some importers have surpassed 12 years and still no model, web sites full of stuff.

Bob

bob2 posted:

You have burst my bubble.  I have expensive hobbies - I flew four different antique airplanes today, and that can add up, with fuel at six bucks a gallon.

I admire what Key has done, but cannot justify several grand for a model locomotive.  It is not that I cannot afford it - it is just that I would rather build my own.  I do not fully appreciate perfection when I have no personal involvement in its creation.

But I figured I was posting with a group of modelers for whom price was simply not part of the equation.  Now I know I am shooting the breeze with folks of roughly my economic status.  That may be more fun!

I think price, or perhaps value, is an issue for everyone.  In my opinion, one of the best parts of this hobby is building your own things.  I wish there were more brass kits out there.  A nice anthology of your articles from "O Scale News" would be a plus.

bob2 said he does "not fully appreciate perfection" when he has "no personal involvement in its creation." Does he therefore mean to imply that he does not (can not?) fully appreciate the perfection of a Shakespeare sonnet, or a painting by Leonardo de Vinci or Magritte, or a symphony by Mozart, or a song by David Bowie, or a novel by Ben Lerner, just because he was not personally involved in its creation? 

Matt Makens posted:

I emailed expressing my interest and looking form more info and got a reply back from Lee last night and he gave me some background. Before he got into RTR brass he used to hand build commissioned models for customers. He did this for 22 years before importing RTR form Korea so not only is he an importer but a very highly skilled modeller as well. 

Hmmm. Wonder what his minimum order is.  

No interest in a GS but if he'd do freight cars like a small run of hyper detailed X25 and X29 boxcars. 

Based on what has been posted on Lees operation I would think very limited quantities of a particular model are his business, if you have a high skill custom builder its all about price ie: 100K = 20 models at the detail level you want, just an example. JMO

Yeah - fully appreciating things is difficult for me.  I value my scratchbuilt AC-8 far more than I did my purchased (new) PSC AC-6.

I value my new aircraft engine way more than if I had purchased it off the shelf, even though I was mostly the assembler of parts.

I am a truly horrible guitarist - I am currently struggling with the Canon in D.  Sure would be a lot easier to just listen to it on U tube.  But no - I have to struggle.

As they say, diifferent folks look at things differently.

Isn’t brass as a rule very limited quantites

Obviously you can define limited in any smaller quantity Overland last O scale run of SD70ACes were fewer than 120 models, I assume MMW is somewhere in that range, Key advertised 40 SP cab forwards but I later read more were built, Sofue built less than 6 of any given model, I was pointing out that Lee may be able to produce 10-20 for a serious buyer, just like a poster on this forum has under written 20 of a Sunset min order to get a rd name he wants and hopes to sell off the extras, its all about the the investment. JMO

I’ve had a few conversations with Erik and he did tell me at one point it was over 200 for sd45s. The sd40-2 premium version will be limited to production quantity of 50. I think production quantity is based more on a factory minimum.

Actually from previous articles written by importers over the years the factories have a minimum price to do a project and from that point depending on the complexity of the model determines the number of models built for that price ,obviously if you order a larger quantity you will pay more than the factory minimum, you may not  get any  lower price per model as these are all hand fabricated. The over 200  cash advance reservations on the SD 45s sounds high to me for this prototype. JMO

I dunno, just telling you what he told me, I only care about the 2 I ordered.

bob2 posted:

Yeah - fully appreciating things is difficult for me.  I value my scratchbuilt AC-8 far more than I did my purchased (new) PSC AC-6.

I value my new aircraft engine way more than if I had purchased it off the shelf, even though I was mostly the assembler of parts.

I am a truly horrible guitarist - I am currently struggling with the Canon in D.  Sure would be a lot easier to just listen to it on U tube.  But no - I have to struggle.

As they say, diifferent folks look at things differently.

bob2, you're my kinda guy. I appreciate your attitude. I'm struggling with precision aerobatics, F3a, but am coming along. Age takes a toll, but we keep fighting seeking no excuses.

Ron H

I can no longer do loops!  The last 1/4 gets my dead ear popping and my stomach quisinart.  But I do six slow rolls each week, and a short segment of inverted flight.  My last competition was in 1976.

My desire to do everything myself does slow me down.  Rather than building trains, I could have worked longer days at my old engineering job, getting more raises so I could afford to buy trains.  But no - I quit that for starvation wages at several now defunct airlines.

Due to mergers and acquisitions, I am now an American Airlines retired captain.  Due to those same mergers, no retirement - I guess it is a good thing I can build what I want.  That includes, by the way, a Daylight Northern with a copper boiler!