My buddy, who does not belong to any chat board, asked me to post this.
He is working on updating his inventory for insurance purposes, and is looking for a value on an original Lionel 1945 catalog.
Thoughts?
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Not much, printed catalogs have lost alot of value.
Probably a couple bucks
Get real fellows. Sure, like most all postwar items, I've seen catalogs decline in value. But the 1945 catalog is far and away the hardest to find. (I know, that is the only postwar piece of paper I've never been able to even to try to purchase)
But, since thousands of reproductions have been make, it is also very important to separate the repos from a genuine one.
Peter is absolutely correct. The 1945 catalog, if it can be determined to be original (and that is a big if), is one of the rarest of postwar catalogs. It has not lost its value and is easily worth hundreds as opposed to "not much" or a "couple bucks". I have only seen a few certified originals in the past forty years.
Bob Osterhoff
I believe that there are 2 other catalogs that would command a good price.
1. The November 1946 issue of Liberty Magazine that had the entire 1946 Lionel catalog inside of it.
2. A mint copy of the 1950 Golden Anniversary catalog.
........but, an original 1946 has got to be the rarest....
Peter
Peter, the 1946 Liberty issue with catalog and the 1950 Golden Anniversary catalog is not in the same league as the original 1945. The Spring 1946 oversized catalog is probably the toughest of the postwar catalogs, more so than an original 1945.
Bob Osterhoff
My buddy would know that a reprint is worthless.
Time to open the wallet and make an offer....
Originally Posted by PeterA:
Get real fellows. Sure, like most all postwar items, I've seen catalogs decline in value. But the 1945 catalog is far and away the hardest to find. (I know, that is the only postwar piece of paper I've never been able to even to try to purchase)
But, since thousands of reproductions have been make, it is also very important to separate the repos from a genuine one.
quote:Time to open the wallet and make an offer....
That's OK, I am certain the catalog is not for sale.
I sent him a link to this thread. I bet he is enjoying your welcoming comments, and will be joining the board shortly.
Very Interesting Thread. I do not think I would say Old Lionel Catalogs are not holding a good Value. It's very true that the newer ones are easily attainable, However, Older, 1939 and up through 1958, in Like New condition are Very Desirable. Probably not to The Younger Model Railroaders, but, to us older folks that could not wait until our Favorite Hobby Shop had the Catalog for us to Set Our Dreams in Motion!!!! Those beautiful pictures of the Early Hudsons, Berkshires, and Yes,The ABA Sante Fe F-Units...I still like looking at these older brochures....Happy Railroading...
My first post. Thanks Charlie for attempting to get my question answered. Very interesting variety of replies, but no answer to my question. I have to come down on the side of Bob when he speaks of the '46 Spring Advance Catalog (arguably the first post-war catalog) vs the '45 (which is really a brochure). My own experience comes down on the '45 being the rarest of the two as I have seen twice as many (2) of the '46. Since the other '46 I saw was on eBay and sold for $2000++ my question is still extant. I suppose that "hundreds" is, theoretically, an answer, but, I think we can do better.
Ron Frey
Originally Posted by Ronf43:
My first post. Thanks Charlie for attempting to get my question answered. Very interesting variety of replies, but no answer to my question. I have to come down on the side of Bob when he speaks of the '46 Spring Advance Catalog (arguably the first post-war catalog) vs the '45 (which is really a brochure). My own experience comes down on the '45 being the rarest of the two as I have seen twice as many (2) of the '46. Since the other '46 I saw was on eBay and sold for $2000++ my question is still extant. I suppose that "hundreds" is, theoretically, an answer, but, I think we can do better.
Ron Frey
Ron, based on the original posting, it is difficult to place a value on an item that has never been examined, no image provided, unknown condition, and since the 1945 catalog/brochure has two major varieties, which version you have. As always, the true value can only be determined when an agreed transaction takes place between a buyer and seller. In the case of the 1945 catalog, it is not so easy to sell because so many buyers are leery of spending big bucks for an item where there are so many reprints, some unmarked. So for insurance purposes can you place a paper value of $2000+? Certainly. You can place any amount you wish. Whether you would ever fetch that amount is another story.
Bob Osterhoff
Good Morning Bob,
Can't argue with anything you said, darn. How about some education? Is there a tell-tale for an original? Paper type for example? Did the reproducers make any mistakes? Mine is the "suprises" variation. I compared it to the Greenberg repro of the same variation and a couple differences are obvious. Mainly the slight shrinkage you get like when you xerox. All the pages have truncation of the top and bottom red banners. Do all the repros exhibit these errors?
Ron
Ron
Just put it out there for sale describe everything you know about the differences take many detailed pictures and let the market say if its original or not, i think thats the best option.
Except it is not for sale. I really am looking for a range of values. Never having seen or heard of one sold, I am at a loss for my inventory. I realize I can say what I want to my insurance company but that does not satisfy my curiosity as a collector.
Ron
Put it at Ebay auction with a high reserve that it wont hit, then you will have a real world value of what someone is willing to pay and not a guess
Yeah, I considered that, but it is not fair to the collectors who think they might have a chance. I know, in my own case, I almost never take a second look at something with a reserve, too often disappointed.
Ron
Well then i dont know what to tell you bud. Insure it for 10k, put it back in the safe. Good luck.
Originally Posted by Putnam Division:
I believe that there are 2 other catalogs that would command a good price.
1. The November 1946 issue of Liberty Magazine that had the entire 1946 Lionel catalog inside of it.
2. A mint copy of the 1950 Golden Anniversary catalog.
........but, an original 1946 has got to be the rarest....
Peter
I would agree Peter and add a mint 1949 catalog to that list.
I have an original early spring 1946 big Lionel catalog in mint condition and also a mint 1946 Liberty magazine Lionel catalog. What puzzles me is I also have a Lionel 1945 brochure with a boy on cover saying "Hi Fellows". Has anyone ever heard or seen this 1945 brochure I am speaking about?
CharlieS posted:My buddy, who does not belong to any chat board, asked me to post this.
He is working on updating his inventory for insurance purposes, and is looking for a value on an original Lionel 1945 catalog.
Thoughts?
Almost unsaleable...especially as a single. More true for the 50s catalogs - I suspect the 1940s have some oddballs that are desirable.
In the past - these things have been heavily reproduced - I've had better luck selling the repros!
Even worse - somebody is just now dumping unopened boxes of 1950s catalogs on eBay - as if they weren't worthless enough.
The dealer catalogs seem to be the only ones that bring real money.
Here is the most expensive single catalog sold in the past 60 days...1934 -129 bucks.
2railguy posted:Put it at Ebay auction with a high reserve that it wont hit, then you will have a real world value of what someone is willing to pay and not a guess
No it won't - a lot of bidders won't participate in the "Reserve" game - I won't. Want a real world value? - start it at 99 cents.
Just keep an eye on the recently sold items...no 1945s have sold at all in the past 60 days - and there are no active listings for that year...so supply is in his favor.
But - I have a HUGE pile of literature and catalogs from the 1930s to the 1990s - like thousands of pieces...lots of multiples...its just not worth selling.
I like the stuff - nice coffee table items - but with few exceptions - catalogs just don't sell.
There are too many of them - and y'all take too good a care of your stuff!
CharlieS - just let your buddy know he can safely browse and enjoy his catalog without feeling like he's destroying something of great value.
Certainly the demand for original catalogs is significantly reduced. With all the price guides, reprints and disks out there, they are no longer needed as a reference source. Yet there are still people who enjoy collecting original paper. So I would expect a rare catalog to still have some value.
Who is going to drop $1,500 for a carton of 200 1957 Lionel catalogs?
I guess it might be the same collector who takes some enjoyment from having a full, new, old stock case of Postwar track, or some other similar item.
Ron:
You've gotten some good advice here ... and some profoundly bad advice.
I can't answer your question directly because I am not an expert in the area but I can say this:
- Your item is so thinly traded that it will be difficult if not impossible to place an exact value on it. If a collector like Bob Osterhoff has only seen one in all his years of collecting paper, it's safe to say you're not going to be able to gather enough data points to make any kind of an accurate estimate of its worth in the market. Your catalog will only be able to be valued when it is subject to an actual sale.
- You're on the right track concerning the questions you're asking about how to determine if the item is a reproduction. To that end, you might do some detailed scans of it and submit it to the TCA to get an assessment from the Standards Committee or other experts within the organization.
- From a straight market appraisal standpoint, you might call or email Stout Auctions and other similar auctioneers to get a sense of its worth. While they may not have handled your specific item, they do have a good sense of what well-heeled collectors are willing to pay for demonstrably rare items in general. As just one example, I'm still marveling at the outcome of this auction.
I can see from your comments above (in response to some bad advice given in this thread), that you're a fair guy who understands that it's not right to give anyone else false expectations about the item being offered for sale. If you do call Stout or someone else, they would need to know that they're just being asked to give an informal appraisal, and not potentially consigning the item. - By all means, please scan it and post the images here and on the TCA's Toy Trains Mailing list. You may attract the attention of someone who can help. As just one example, Bruce Greenberg has been known to read and comment on the TCA forum.
- Just to give you "a number", I'd go with $5000.00 for insurance purposes, assuming the item is real. Could your item be worth twice or half that? Sure. If you have an "agreed value" policy and your carrier approves it, then you alone get to set what the item is worth for insurance purposes. Since you alone also get to pay the annual premium for the policy, and your premium is based on the total insured value (e.g., $0.22 per $100 of value), you wouldn't want to set the agreed value at, say, $3,000,000.
Ask your agent what your policy would cost if you set the value at $1,000, $5,000, or $10,000 for the item and then choose the coverage that makes you feel the most comfortable. You might discover that the difference between insuring it for $5000 vs. $10000 is some inconsequential amount like $15 per year.
Good luck with it. If you have the time, please do let us see some scans and tell us a little more about how you originally acquired the item.
Steven J. Serenska
Sorry, guys, this thread came up on today's "Recent Posts" list based on the recent activity. I had no idea I was replying to questions asked almost 3 years ago. I hope all went well for Ron. Ron, is there an update?
Steven J. Serenska
