RickO posted:That looks like the wheel and gear are not pressed far enough onto the axle and that axle may be out of guage.
Are you having any tracking issues through turnouts etc?
I really want to preorder some of the new legacy Fa's....maybe not.
I agree, the more I look at the pictures, it looks like the wheels and gear were not pressed onto the axle with any consistency.
Why I run old prewar and old postwar. Lot less hassle & $$ involved. Supposed to be fun.
Thank you RickO.
Wow John 69 21" passenger cars? You may hold the current record! I just preordered my first 5 to go with my "Spirit of Roanoke" #611.
On my SD40 I could tell the wheel wasn't pressed on far enough because the axle wasn't flush with the outer wheel face like the other wheels. You may want to remove truck side frame and check.
trainbob posted:Although working on our trains is one of the great pleasures of this great hobby personally I never open up a new locomotive while under warranty because it can void the warranty
That is a very good philosophy. When you purchase an engine, a decision needs to be made. Either you refrain from messing around and let Lionel service the locomotive during the warranty period, or you take full responsibility for handling your own repair work.
Now, getting back on topic: If someone really knew what they were doing, and they were advised to use a 671M-22 clip, they wouldn't go order 100 from Home Depot at a cost of $30, when you can go to the Train Tender and get 100 for $9.00.
jim pastorius posted:Why I run old prewar and old postwar. Lot less hassle & $$ involved. Supposed to be fun.
Good for you Jim.
Some folks aren't interested in old prewar and old postwar.
As crazy as it sounds. There are a lot of reliable well running modern trains, just as there were defective prewar and postwar items.
In particular, I recall a story about Madison hardware exchanging whole locomotives for a run of defective new out of the box ones.
Plenty of defective/ broken/ unreliable prewar and postwar trains ended up in landfills decades ago.
A Ford flathead is a simple reliable v8 engine with little that can go wrong.
However, alot of folks would prefer the modern flat plane Coyote v8 which can do everything better than the flathead albeit it's more expensive and more complex.
The OP has a warranty but has elected not to make use of it. I suspect a postwar diesel may not have the features he' s interested in.
GREGR, I did not think to go to the Train Tender because I never heard of it. I am throwing away all the Lionel silver 3/16" E-clips because they are opening up on my 21" passenger car truck posts. I had three cars arrive with the trucks dangling by the wires. About another dozen clips could be flicked away with my finger, no tool required, just move it away easily.
The silver e-clips were opening under the movement of the truck post and the floor of the car, bending open the e-clip. Going to a Lionel train store was the last thought on my mind. I appreciate the info. I just wanted explain my thinking: "Train part fails. Don't go to train store for parts."
Sincerely, John Rowlen
Kinda sad that they have cheapened everything right down to those little E-clips. I have purchased them on E-bay and they were good quality.
Flat head Ford V* ?? Think Chevy small block instead. Like old Lionel=less stress.
Had to replace a few trucks on my Polar Express heavies; learned right away that the stock silver E-clips were soft and would spread when removed; when re-inserted they would drop the new truck - you have to squeeze them back together a bit with a needle nose; glad to hear they are available at Lowes or Home Depot or Train Tender. Now, if you don't have any spares and one springs to the floor as nature dictates, they are invisible except to a Dyson dust buster.
jim pastorius posted:Flat head Ford V* ?? Think Chevy small block instead. Like old Lionel=less stress.
Slant Six and three on a tree.... oil and water; optional 
(a detuned performance motor )
The difference may be in the hardness though they should be kinda close, how it's done can differ.
The black ones may be harder but usually more brittle. I find they don't like being stressed open too far and may snap randomly over time if stretcched and held.
You might test one by twisting it up with pliars. If it twists, it won't likely break out of the blue (usually the bright/silver ones are softer)
Grinding on the E-clip bump stops tweaking, & thrust surface runout that occurs when they are stretched open; it increases the Es inner diameter so it can flatten at or near 100%.
falconservice posted:I saw some of those plastic bag clips, now I have to find them.
Andrew
I have been cutting circles out of antifreeze bottles for years and using in the same way. I have a 3/4" and 1/2" hole saw I cut several squares out of the bottle and stack them, then put what ever saw I feel appropriate in the drill-press and cut me a stack of washers. They come out about 3/32" smaller than the outer diameter of the hole saw. For some uses the 3/16" hole in the middle is ok for some I either drill to the size I need or spin an X Acto knife blade in the hole till it is the size I want. Then cut a slit to slip over the axle or pull a wheel off, stack as many spacers as needed then press the wheel back on. j
I don't bother to take wheels off, just slipping the washer on works for me, and I've never had one fall off.
I get the whole washer thing. I've done the bread clip mod to a 736 Berkshire too. But based on the original post- it sounds like there are a lot of Lionel diesels made in the last 10 years with at least one set of wheels gauged too wide. Putting washers or e-clips on the axle doesn't bring the wheels back into gauge. I'm surprised these things don't bind or derail on switches.
So fans of the washer mod, you're telling me that having one axle gauged wide and the other gauged correctly doesn't affect the operation? Or am I misunderstanding the problem...?
Ted S posted:But based on the original post- it sounds like there are a lot of Lionel diesels made in the last 10 years with at least one set of wheels gauged too wide. Putting washers or e-clips on the axle doesn't bring the wheels back into gauge. I'm surprised these things don't bind or derail on switches.
So fans of the washer mod, you're telling me that having one axle gauged wide and the other gauged correctly doesn't affect the operation? Or am I misunderstanding the problem...?
In my experience with a handful of Lionel diesels. "Correctly" assembled models have a "half of a gear width" of play, meaning the axle will slide over about half of the gear. This extra play obviously makes the loco of tighter 3 rail track arrangments.
Having said that, one of the previous posters mentioned this slop is overkill on a 4 axle diesel, I agree.
In the O.P's original photo the top axle appears to be out of guage, the wheel on the left side is not pressed far enough on the axle and neither is the gear behind it. When all the way to the outside the gears do not mesh.
The bottom axle in the photo "appears' to be closer to typical "spec" from Lionel diesels I've owned.
When the axle shifts to one side, half the gear mesh is lost, the other and they mesh fully.
For the ones I had issues with, the wheels were gauged correctly, don't know why the gears didn't mesh correctly.
For those of us that don’t know what is the proper gauge dimensions for Lionel wheel sets. Guess I will have to check all of my diesels
Theré are big differences in flanges, tread widths, and transition between them, so it isn't as cut and dry as scale gauging. I not seen a numerical measurement for any tubular. Maybe NMRA?
There is a descriptive process printed somewhere in Lionel literature to place an engine on a 0-27 curve, then there should still be an ability to shift the wheelbase around just slightly without the tread lifting or flanges bumping. I guess that would apply to any min. dia..
The gauge doesn't need to be exact from one wheelset to another on one truck. It would be ideal though..e.g with fast angle treads if there is a gauge difference, then there is a height difference to. But the tracking won't be really be effected that much as they want to stay as centered in the V-angle of the wheels seating.
Getting fussy would be better long term for wear, etc., but we are talking some minute improvement on bullet proof design
Too narrow and you will hang up on guide rails in turnouts and uncoupling track centers(or fall into the rails). Too wide and you get binding and lifting /climbing on rails in curves.
Properly doing the job ... motor frame gets locked down from movement, wheel gauge is set or measured, axle end play measured, machine shims chosen to leave 2-10 thousandths (?) end play + placement to center the worm & worm gear, wheels pulled, shims inserted, reassemble Johnny 5.
I reached Katie on Friday, March 8, 2019 and was told Lionel has no Body Shell for my CSX F40PH #9999 that returned after three rips to Lionel with broken mounting posts. They will issue the fourth RA for this engine and refund my money.
The problem is I have detailed seven CSX Executive cars with hand-painted Preiser 65602 people and the additional Theater Car. Now I have no engine to pull them, and over $100. per car in detailing.
My third Santa Fe SD40 arrived, the second #5006, and it has an unusual gear star showing on the back on a non gear wheel. I think the factory put the wheel on the wrong end of the axle, the one meant for the gear and wheel. The Gripping star is on right of axle, opposite the gear. The wheel appears to be on all the way.
Does anyone know for sure? This engine runs nicely, but I am concerned about the future issues because the star grip goes into the truck block. I am so disenchanted with Lionel.
Sincerely, John Rowlen
John Rowlen posted:I reached Katie on Friday, March 8, 2019 and was told Lionel has no Body Shell for my CSX F40PH #9999 that returned after three rips to Lionel with broken mounting posts. They will issue the fourth RA for this engine and refund my money.
The problem is I have detailed seven CSX Executive cars with hand-painted Preiser 65602 people and the additional Theater Car. Now I have no engine to pull them, and over $100. per car in detailing.
Look like train world might have a Csx f40 tho it's 9998, check their website.
John, I had my dealer place some 3/16 E clip washers on my B&O GP9 and now the gears line up properly, I think. My minimum curve is 072, so hopefully no problems. I use Atlas O, Ross Custom Trackage. I will let you know if there are issues with this alignment. Thank you for this thread. 
Well, I sent my new 84271 B&O GP9 #3419 to Lionel Service. It was returned to me missing the original Front Lift Bar and hinges/eyelets. They were on the engine when I sent the perfect body shell to Lionel.
Lionel had to put a new truck on front of the new engine because the gears did not engage properly. Now the engine looks very bad with a thinner black wire Lift Bar that does not position itself properly. It does not match the Lift Bar on the rear of the engine. There is glue residue around each Lift Bar support and on a Cab railing. The dealer said to send it back for a refund.
It has been two months since I returned my CSX F40PH #9999 that was destroyed when it returned from Lionel for a third time. All of the body shell posts were broken from my engine. I am still waiting for Lionel to refund my money. Maybe in June I was told.
Lionel assured me I wasn't being targeted for damage. They are having a higher than normal number of repairs coming right back a second time for service again. I was told representatives are in China this week. Hopefully these issues will get resolved.
Sincerely, John Rowlen
And yet you keep buying them.
Quite the list of defective Lionel locomotives. I would be very hesitant on purchasing any more until Lionel's QC improved.
John have you considered maybe not buying any more Lionel? There is an old adage about doing the same unsuccessful thing over and over, all the while expecting a different result.
You seem to buy a lot and continuously get bitten. There has to be a better alternative.
In the beginning it was not as much fun passing up Lionel but now we are over the shock and enjoying it. When their QC improves, we are bound to hear about it and will again consider Lionel.
I have to say, I've been giving MTH stuff a lot closer look lately.
John Rowlen posted:...They are having a higher than normal number of repairs coming right back a second time for service again. I was told representatives are in China this week. Hopefully these issues will get resolved.
Sincerely, John Rowlen
...not to add fuel to the fire, but if Lionel is getting a higher than normal amount of repairs coming back a second time, wouldn't that reflect on their repair dept rather than the initial quality?
How much should the plastic bread fasteners be cut down to use as clips?
Andrew
I leave about 1/4" of "meat" around the center hole and then just slip them on the axle.
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