Lionel Alco FA Diesel

I have two 202 locomotives. Despite having a single magnatraction axle, they are not huge pullers. I can get 6-8 smaller and light pieces of rolling stock around my tight curves. What kind of track are you using (is it ferrous?)

My 1953 yellow UP 2023 with magnatraction could not pull more that three 12 inch passenger cars without wheel spin on the slightest of a gradient. When I added Lionel's add on car set to I also had to motorize the dummy A unit to get enough traction to move the 5 cars train.

Bogie

@OldBogie, the 2023 is a completely different and (in my mind) superior setup compared to the 202. I just recently serviced my 2023 and could pull the dummy and over a dozen O gauge traditionally sized pieces of rolling stock no problems. I was amazed with how much I could get that single motored unit to pull around my tight curves!

@Fivenehocs, this bring up the point of lubrication. You should use some very light oil (Labelle 107) on the trucks of your rolling stock, locomotive axle bushings, and the brushplate/armature reservoirs. A slightly thicker oil (Labelle 102) can be used on the exposed gears. CRC 2-26 on the rollers is also a great idea.

David...lube it up,clean the commutator make sure the slots are not clogged it will be fine...it was not meant to pull a lot...hope this helps....P.S. i have 30 + alcos in my collection....joe

Compared to today's locomotives this engine is indeed a very poor puller. However, back in the day when I ran it as a child, I distinctly remember it pulling 4 027 cars without a problem. Today, it has difficulty pulling those same 4 cars. My layout today consist of Gargraves track with Ross turnouts. I don't notice any wheel slippage.  I have cleaned the gears axles and wheels of all the crud built up over the years and and applied fresh lubricants to the appropriate  places. 

@OldBogie, the 2023 is a completely different and (in my mind) superior setup compared to the 202. I just recently serviced my 2023 and could pull the dummy and over a dozen O gauge traditionally sized pieces of rolling stock no problems. I was amazed with how much I could get that single motored unit to pull around my tight curves!

I have to agree with BM0RAN4. I have had many 2023 style Alcos pass through my hands. Most of them had very strong magnetraction and the wheels would not slip. I wonder whether OldBogie's 2023 has weak or missing magnets.

Regardless, I believe that magnetraction is not as effective on gargraves track. I read an interview with the owner of  Gargraves in one of the train magazines some years back. The owner said that magnetraction was not as effective on their track because the track had less mass. He went on to say that they considered putting metal wire inside the rail to increase the mass, but decided against it. They felt the flat rail top made up for the loss of magnetic attraction.

I would add traction tires, I had some issues with an MPC Era Alco FA, and guys  like CW chimed in on how to add traction tires without removing the truck frame from the couplers.  The link below  is the thread on how to replace traction tires.  Some of the 200 series alcos did not have magnetraction, so traction tires may have been used.  Jeff at the train tender sells them in bulk,  I can look up the part number if you need.  THey fit a lot of engines.  

https://ogrforum.com/...08#77311805215345808

I would add traction tires, I had some issues with an MPC Era Alco FA, and guys  like CW chimed in on how to add traction tires without removing the truck frame from the couplers.  The link below  is the thread on how to replace traction tires.  Some of the 200 series alcos did not have magnetraction, so traction tires may have been used.  Jeff at the train tender sells them in bulk,  I can look up the part number if you need.  THey fit a lot of engines.  

Your MPC Alco has a grooved wheel for the traction tire. The original Poster's locomotive does not. As far as I know, Lionel started used traction tires around 1962.

Brewman1973 posted:

I would add traction tires, I had some issues with an MPC Era Alco FA, and guys  like CW chimed in on how to add traction tires without removing the truck frame from the couplers.  [...] Some of the 200 series alcos did not have magnetraction, so traction tires may have been used. 

C W Burfle posted:

Your MPC Alco has a grooved wheel for the traction tire. The original Poster's locomotive does not. As far as I know, Lionel started used traction tires around 1962.

@Fivenehocs, your 202 (if original), does not have the grooved wheels required for the traction tires being discussed and therefore not a practice option here without replacing the entire motor truck. Even with the traction tire alcos, the locomotive weighs so little, your better off with the magnatraction version.

David, ref not pulling well.  Do the wheels slip, or does the motor/power truck bog down?  Big difference in possible fixes.

The wheels do not slip at all. I can't describe it has something holding it back since there kind of is since it has cars coupled to it. It is like as soon as load is applied something shifts in the drive train which is preventing power to be transmitted to the wheels. I replaced the brushes and the ball bearings hoping that would fix it, but it didn't make a difference. 

@Fivenehocs, you could be having the issue where the bearing housing shifts out of alignment. This is caused by the the plastic bearing housing plate on the bottom of the power truck being loose. If you turn the loco upside down while the motor is binding/slipping, you can use your finger to move the housing from side to side. You will find that there is a sweet spot position for the housing.

Lionel recommended using a sharp, pointy punch to dimple the aluminum side of the motor frame to push the plate in the proper direction. I have heard that some slip a paper matchstick or similar on the appropriate side to obtain alignment.

This is discussed in the service documents:

You might find this PDF a little easier to read: service manual page.

Folks should be aware that Olsens has posted the entire Postwar Lionel factory service manual online. Plus they have created many additional pages. There is also quite a bit of prewar information.

Lionel recommended using a sharp, pointy punch to dimple the aluminum side of the motor frame to push the plate in the proper direction. I have heard that some slip a paper matchstick or similar on the appropriate side to obtain alignment.

I generally use a paper matchstick.
Some folks have a technique using glue. I want to try that sometime.

If all else fails try adding some weight to the engine on the motor end.

One good source of information on Magne-Traction and types and brands of O gauge track is the October 2004 Classic Toy Trains magazine.  An article on pages 66 to 71 titled "Testing 9 Types of Track" by Phillip Hays

From summary of article is in post link below

https://ogrforum.com/...35#70693071094215935

"He also showed that locomotive weight increased traction.  I have noticed this for sure on my 027 tubular Marx and Lionel track as I have had to go from 2.0-2.4 pound plastic body 2-4-2 Lionel 248 type;  to 3.5 pound metal body Lionel 2016, 2026 2-6-2v type;  to 4.5 pound metal body Lionel 2025, 2035 2-6-4 type locomotives to pull heavier and heavier trains with 3 or 4 heavy operating cars like milk, cattle and drum cars.  I had fun weighing many of my locos."

Charlie

C W Burfle posted:

They (Gargraves) felt the flat rail top made up for the loss of magnetic attraction.

Lionel also stated that the flat top of Super O, enhanced magnetraction.  And it does.

Gargraves' issue with magnetration is the lack of having any real type of ferromagnetic link between outside rails to complete the "magnetic" circuit.

Below is a page from the October 2004 Classic Toy Trains magazine.  An article on pages 66 to 71 titled "Testing 9 Types of Track" by Phillip Hays showing a graft on weight effect on pulling power.

Charlie

Guys, you are not reading what his problem is.  The drive wheels are not slipping.  Weight, track type, traction, etc is not the issue.

The motor truck staking has come loose.  When torque is needed to pull additional cars the side frames are shifting causing a misalignment of the worm gear and the axle gear = binding.

Shimming and/or tightening of the truck side frames will be needed to eliminate this.  It's not all that difficult, but special tools help.